HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part 11

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2012, 03:18 PM
  #751
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,255
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyduke View Post
I'm with you. That's on the hitter, not Valentine.



So, you liked the 2-10 start last year better than 4-6?
Nope, I just hate the fact we have a condescending ******* as a coach. And he has already showed multiple times that he has no clue on when to take pitchers out of the game.

CDJ is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 04:09 PM
  #752
Johnnyduke
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,743
vCash: 500
Despite what the ballwashers might spew, did you ever hear Francona when he was asked a challenging question? He could be quite condescending as well. I couldn't care less about that crap.

As for handling a pitching staff, don't you think there's some growing pains with a new manager? He doesn't know the staff and more specifically today, he doesn't know Bard as a starter. Or perhaps he simply didn't trust his bullpen. We're 10 games into the season. Call me crazy, but I'm gonna give Valentine some more time.

Johnnyduke is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 04:15 PM
  #753
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Condescending is fine. Contradictory, vascilating, and insincere isn't.

At his worst, Tito was still as good as his word.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 04:46 PM
  #754
Johnnyduke
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,743
vCash: 500
Fair enough. Up until things actually blow up, I only care about them winning games. And despite 4-6 being nothing to write home about...it could be a lot worse. After listening to the entire question/response, it really wasn't all that bad. It's just something these players aren't used to. If they go out and win games, we'll be hearing about how the players have bought into Bobby V. It's all about winning.

Johnnyduke is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:06 AM
  #755
seemlessglass
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: a town called malice
Country: United States
Posts: 1,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
So you're assuming that an umpire can't make a split second mistake?

Honestly, as a hitter, in that particular pitch location, you're better off hoping the umpire missed one, knows it, and is going to correct than you ever are of swinging at that pitch. You take your bat off your shoulder with the pitch that far outside, you're cooked.

Nevermind the fact that if you start expanding for one umpire in one situation, you'll do so for others. Bad process. Vanover did a terrible job there, and sometimes as a hitter there's nothing you can do about it.
Vanover was consistant, not perfect. Remember he's human also. That pitch was called a strike consistantly. What do you always hear about umpires? Be consistant. Ross stood there and took all 5 pitches. If your Rodney and the umpire is giving you an inch past the black where are you going to go? Down the middle? I don't think so. Ross was looking for a walk like usual and got burned.

seemlessglass is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #756
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seemlessglass View Post
Vanover was consistant, not perfect. Remember he's human also. That pitch was called a strike consistantly. What do you always hear about umpires? Be consistant. Ross stood there and took all 5 pitches. If your Rodney and the umpire is giving you an inch past the black where are you going to go? Down the middle? I don't think so. Ross was looking for a walk like usual and got burned.
I think the consistency with umpires thing is crap, if you call the strike zone consistently wrong, all it means is you're very consistent at being bad. The width of the strike zone NEVER changes, and the umpire is stationary. I can see an inch or two here, an inch or two there. That's fine. Those balls were a foot off the plate.

And my point wasn't so much as to lay into Vanover. It was more to stem the criticism of Ross. Only one of those pitches was an inch off the plate. The other 4 were a foot. We have the technology to quantify these things now. Ross was looking for a walk, because he should have walked.

MTaylorJ1 is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:18 AM
  #757
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Are we all set for the Bobby Valentine Show on Thursday? I think I will start vomiting now and avoid the rush.
Hopefully it wasn't because you consumed one of his famous wraps...

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:19 AM
  #758
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
I think the consistency with umpires thing is crap, if you call the strike zone consistently wrong, all it means is you're very consistent at being bad. The width of the strike zone NEVER changes, and the umpire is stationary. I can see an inch or two here, an inch or two there. That's fine. Those balls were a foot off the plate.

And my point wasn't so much as to lay into Vanover. It was more to stem the criticism of Ross. Only one of those pitches was an inch off the plate. The other 4 were a foot. We have the technology to quantify these things now. Ross was looking for a walk, because he should have walked.
Congrats to Ross for holding strong in his convictions and not swinging at a ball that was consistently called a strike. One question though, how'd that work out for the team?

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:19 AM
  #759
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Congrats to Ross for holding strong in his convictions and not swinging. One question though, how'd that work out for the team?
The same way it would have worked out if he swung.

MTaylorJ1 is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:21 AM
  #760
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Congrats to Ross for holding strong in his convictions and not swinging at a ball that was consistently called a strike. One question though, how'd that work out for the team?
The other thing I'm curious about, because I only watched that one AB, if Vanover truly was calling THAT wide of a strike zone consistently yesterday....how the hell did Bard walk 7 guys?

MTaylorJ1 is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:23 AM
  #761
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
He shouldn't have adjusted. If a hitter expands his strike zone, he gets overanxious and puts himself out.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that hitting is an act of conscious decision. It's a matter of well trained reflexes -- which is why I suck at it, by the way.

Your argument amounts to having a goal disallowed on an obvious blown call, not enough evidence to overturn even though you can see white behind the puck, and some drunk yahoo is saying he should have beat the goalie more cleanly. Sure, it's a technically correct answer, but in practical terms it's bloody useless.
Geez, if it's all nothing more than reflexes, why do a lot of hitters shorten up their swing when they're down in the count? Why do they try to guess what pitch is coming? It's all a matter of nothing but reflexes, so nothing they do will make a difference anyway so why bother, right?

My argument is based on Ross not swinging at a pitch that was called a strike all game, and also called a strike right before he was rung up without even offering. You can say it was a ball and be right, but the truth is Ross should have taken his cut. There's nothing worse than watching a called strike with the game on the line.

Let me cut to the chase for you, since you seem to be missing the point: Winners make their luck, and losers complain about the call.

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
  #762
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
The other thing I'm curious about, because I only watched that one AB, if Vanover truly was calling THAT wide of a strike zone consistently yesterday....how the hell did Bard walk 7 guys?
Because it wasn't that consistent.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:25 AM
  #763
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Because it wasn't that consistent.
It was called a strike 2 pitches before he watched it go by him to end the game.

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #764
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Geez, if it's all nothing more than reflexes, why do a lot of hitters shorten up their swing when they're down in the count? Why do they try to guess what pitch is coming? It's all a matter of nothing but reflexes, so nothing they do will make a difference anyway so why bother, right?
Because it's well trained reflexes. And you're asking a man to second guess his reflexes and still make contact with a pitch. Doesn't work that way.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #765
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Geez, if it's all nothing more than reflexes, why do a lot of hitters shorten up their swing when they're down in the count? Why do they try to guess what pitch is coming? It's all a matter of nothing but reflexes, so nothing they do will make a difference anyway so why bother, right?

My argument is based on Ross not swinging at a pitch that was called a strike all game, and also called a strike right before he was rung up without even offering. You can say it was a ball and be right, but the truth is Ross should have taken his cut. There's nothing worse than watching a called strike with the game on the line.

Let me cut to the chase for you, since you seem to be missing the point: Winners make their luck, and losers complain about the call.
That's your opinion and nothing more. I find it much worse to watch a hitter go fishing for balls "trying to protect".

MTaylorJ1 is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #766
MTaylorJ1
Registered User
 
MTaylorJ1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,161
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
It was called a strike 2 pitches before he watched it go by him to end the game.
You're a huge fan of the sample size of one aren't you?

MTaylorJ1 is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #767
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
It was called a strike 2 pitches before he watched it go by him to end the game.
Whoop de freakin' doo, that might have been twice out of five times all night where a pitch that far out of the zone was called a strike.

Half the time when a pitch that far out of the zone is called for a strike, the ump realizes he's goofed and calls the next one tighter, or even gives the hitter a borderline pitch to make up for it. Unfortunately Vanover wasn't that smart.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:07 AM
  #768
seemlessglass
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: a town called malice
Country: United States
Posts: 1,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
I think the consistency with umpires thing is crap, if you call the strike zone consistently wrong, all it means is you're very consistent at being bad. The width of the strike zone NEVER changes, and the umpire is stationary. I can see an inch or two here, an inch or two there. That's fine. Those balls were a foot off the plate.

And my point wasn't so much as to lay into Vanover. It was more to stem the criticism of Ross. Only one of those pitches was an inch off the plate. The other 4 were a foot. We have the technology to quantify these things now. Ross was looking for a walk, because he should have walked.
It's been going on since the beginning of the game. Strike zones vary from umpire to umpire. It is up to the hitter and pitcher to adjust. Were those pitches technically strikes? Yes. But we would also be watching the top of the 5th inning of that game now if every pitch that's an inch off the plate is called a ball. What ever happened to the mentality of making hitters swing the bat and games being less than 4 hours long?

seemlessglass is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:31 AM
  #769
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
It's not about making hitters swing the bat and hasn't been since the 70's.

I'm not going to blame a hitter for not swinging at a pitch when it was called a strike just because the ump was wrong for calling it a strike.

if he swings at that, it was so far outside that odds are he doesn't hit it anyway and we'd be roasting him for whiffing at a pitch a foot outside to end the game.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:39 AM
  #770
DKH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,211
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
I think I know who the snitch is- or atleast the one about the chicken and beer....I think Valentine does to

DKH is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #771
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Well, Youk WAS complaining about it extensively last year. I remember the other players getting a little irritated about him over it.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #772
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
It's not about making hitters swing the bat and hasn't been since the 70's.

I'm not going to blame a hitter for not swinging at a pitch when it was called a strike just because the ump was wrong for calling it a strike.

if he swings at that, it was so far outside that odds are he doesn't hit it anyway and we'd be roasting him for whiffing at a pitch a foot outside to end the game.
Maybe not, but the odds are 100% for him not hitting a ball he doesn't swing at.

And again, what exactly does sticking to your convictions get you in that situation? Oh yeah, a called strike 3 and game over. Sweet. Good job maintaining your integrity, Cody.

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:48 AM
  #773
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Because it's well trained reflexes. And you're asking a man to second guess his reflexes and still make contact with a pitch. Doesn't work that way.
So you're saying if a player practiced less, they could actually hit that pitch?

Come on, Doj, your argument is bordering on ridiculousness here. Plenty of players adjust their swing to accommodate for how the ump is calling a game. To suggest that it's an impossibility based on reflexes is just silly. Go sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here...

LSCII is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:48 AM
  #774
Causeway
Formerly Monti46
 
Causeway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Worcester, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Causeway Send a message via Skype™ to Causeway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
It's not about making hitters swing the bat and hasn't been since the 70's.

I'm not going to blame a hitter for not swinging at a pitch when it was called a strike just because the ump was wrong for calling it a strike.

if he swings at that, it was so far outside that odds are he doesn't hit it anyway and we'd be roasting him for whiffing at a pitch a foot outside to end the game.
I'm sorry but I absolutely can't agree with this, if it was a strike the whole at-bat Ross better damn expect him to pound that corner the rest of the at-bat. The umpire isn't an excuse to keep the bat on his shoulder and thrash him after the game, you have to fight it off. Terrible calls, yes, but you have to atleast be smart and make an effort.

Anyone who roasts a batter for failing to fight off a pitch that was called a strike in the same at-bat should stick to whatever sport they came from.

Causeway is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 11:51 AM
  #775
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 30,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Causeway View Post
I'm sorry but I absolutely can't agree with this, if it was a strike the whole at-bat Ross better damn expect him to pound that corner the rest of the at-bat. The umpire isn't an excuse to keep the bat on his shoulder and thrash him after the game, you have to fight it off. Terrible calls, yes, but you have to atleast be smart and make an effort.

Anyone who roasts a batter for failing to fight off a pitch that was called a strike in the same at-bat should stick to whatever sport they came from.
Exactly.

LSCII is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.