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MAF has a Save% under .900 4 straight series

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Old
04-16-2012, 03:28 PM
  #101
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
martin and fleury for kipper
huh?

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Old
04-16-2012, 04:50 PM
  #102
Karnage420
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huh?
if calgary goes full rebuild we could get Kiprusoff for Fleury and Martin.

why not?

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Old
04-16-2012, 04:51 PM
  #103
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if calgary goes full rebuild we could get Kiprusoff for Fleury and Martin.

why not?
B/c we're not trading Fleury. That's why.

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Old
04-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #104
Letang fan 58
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Agreed. We'll probably never know what's causing Fleury's issues all of a sudden, but if you consider it's just carry over from the end of the regular season, the only logical explanation is that he was overworked during the regular season. And it's hard to blame that on Bylsma, considering how poorly Johnson (and then Thiessen) looked.

Fleury's best playoff performance was in 08. It might not be a coincidence that he was limited to only 40 games in the regular season because of that ankle sprain.

He was shakey for parts of the 09 playoffs but got the job done when it counted, and has been putrid since.

I'm certainly not saying he should be limited to 40 regular season starts, but like you said, he needs a backup that can push him for playing time and allow us to ride out his slumps.. And it'll keep Fleury fresher for the playoffs. None of this veteran mentor crap, we just need someone that can flat-out play.

I like Harding. I'd also look at Dan Ellis or Chris Mason. Maybe even Gustavsson.
Ellis and Mason are not young enough to have enough upside to me. I'd take a shot on either Harding or Gustavsson for sure because they are both young and have huge upside if they turn out. Harding has been on a defensive team forever but he's a beast imo and has just never got a real legit chance. Gustavsson has been screwed by being a Leaf but I still think hes really got a chance to be good.

Another cple goalies I wouldnt mind are Lindback, Bernier.

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Old
04-16-2012, 04:59 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Marns View Post
Canadians: What are your thoughts moving towards Sochi regarding goaltending?
Had a long discussion earlier in the year with a good friend who is a Canucks fan.......together we both thought that Fleury had turned the corner and was looking like a pretty good bet to be our starter in Russia.

After this **** show in the playoffs I think theres absolutely no chance that I'd rather have him in net than Luongo or Price.

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04-16-2012, 05:00 PM
  #106
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I would love for Calgary to start a "rebuild" now by doing a Kipper for MAF and Martin deal.

Would never happen though, then again Calgary is just a mess right now, fighting for 9th for the last 5-7 years.

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Old
04-16-2012, 05:51 PM
  #107
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I've been saying this for the past four seasons. He is just an average, to bad goalie.

It's blatantly obvious, and has been blatantly obvious. He needs to go, that's all that needs to be said.

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Old
04-16-2012, 05:52 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by metalan2 View Post
I've been saying this for the past four seasons. He is just an average, to bad goalie.

It's blatantly obvious, and has been blatantly obvious. He needs to go, that's all that needs to be said.
You don't know what average or bad mean apparently. That's blatantly obvious.

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Old
04-16-2012, 06:00 PM
  #109
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This is the pens board my friend. Not an outside fan lecture.

Fleury's rebound control was atrocious and absolutely killed our confidence early. Fleury's 4th goal was the icing on the cake especially when it was right after Neal's 1st of the series and a great individual effort.

**** went downhill after that. Sid tried to stir things up b/c if was obvious things weren't going our way.

All Fleury needed to be was average by his standards and we may have a 2-1 series on our hands.
This is what I say every year, and again this year. All we need is for Fleury to be just average, say above.900 sv pct, which is still below average, and we would easily win the cup.


The only possible chance the Penguins had of losing is Fleury playing at historically bad proportion, which I knew was possible. It happened. The Penguins wouldn't be winning a series vs the Islanders with this play.

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Old
04-16-2012, 06:03 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
You don't know what average or bad mean apparently. That's blatantly obvious.
According to NHL standards he is average, to bad as a starting goaltender. There is no debating this.

Supremely talented yes, elite? Not close. He has been a middle of the pack goalie, and an absolutely atrocious playoff goalie.


Again, there is no debate about this.

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Old
04-16-2012, 06:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by metalan2 View Post
According to NHL standards he is average, to bad as a starting goaltender. There is no debating this.

Supremely talented yes, elite? Not close. He has been a middle of the pack goalie, and an absolutely atrocious playoff goalie.


Again, there is no debate about this.
His play in the postseason is not moving in the right direction. But it's just not true to call him an average goalie. Team defense needs to be better.

One thing I am not a fan of with him is his confidence. No way does he allow another 6 goals last game if he's strong mentally.

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Old
04-16-2012, 06:49 PM
  #112
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Play him less games. Some one mentioned his best playoff year was when he was rested from an injury most of the season. Seems to make sense.

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Old
04-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MrPenalty View Post
I held up tongue all year long while the Fleury love-fest was going on. Talk of a Vezina nomination-LOL and stuff like that. I wanted to remind people of what we've been enduring during the playoffs the last few years. He is one of the worst 5 goalies in the league. He has been for a while. The team has a pretty good defense if you take him out and put a real goalie in. Give us Luongo and i bet we'd have won a game or two. Its that bad..

<80 save % through a series has got to be historic. I hope something changes soon. I hate to see all this potential wasted because we are too invested in this guy. No one really understands how much harder it is on the D if the goalie plays this badly. It totally destroys their confidence too.
Former Pens goalie Tom Barrasso says hello and he won us a Cup too, and would come back the following year and have a career season. Too many guys are hard on Fleury. It's only 3 games. Yes, we want to win, but the entire team has been bad.

Edit: Whoops! That was the reg season. .860 save percentage followed by a .922 year. Of course it was a small sampling the year he posted .860, but so is 3 playoff games, where on many occasion he was hung out to dry. This is not excusing of course that he has been horrible in these playoffs. He has, but I wouldn't demand to have him traded or say he's a crap goalie as a result.

People are so in the "what have you done for us now?" frame of mine they forget he had two strong playoff years for us. With that mentality we should demand two thirds of the team to take a hike, and that includes our poster boys.


Last edited by PensFan6687: 04-16-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old
04-16-2012, 07:19 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
His play in the postseason is not moving in the right direction. But it's just not true to call him an average goalie. Team defense needs to be better.

One thing I am not a fan of with him is his confidence. No way does he allow another 6 goals last game if he's strong mentally.
Don't bother.


On another note, in the last 5 min I've seen Tim Thomas let a weak wrister from the blue line go 5-hole and Erik Karlsson break up a pass on a 2 on 1. When was the last time a Pens Dman broke up a pas on a 2 on 1?

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:25 PM
  #115
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B/c we're not trading Fleury. That's why.
well then we arent winning another cup are we?

unless he somehow pumps his confidence to unreal levels in over the next year we are screwed. he simply cannot preform in the playoffs. yeah he was good 2 years. but he was crap for more.

we cant keep ignoring it. hes bad in the playoffs, hes a bigger choker than luongo and you simply cannot win with that hanging over the team.

also, keep in mind when people call him "bad" or "average" they are referring to his PLAYOFF performance. not his regular season dominance.

hes two faced, and the worse face shows up at the most important times.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:38 PM
  #116
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Franchise goaltenders don't grow on trees. It's not even worth discussing. They retool the D and give him more rest in the regular season.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:46 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Franchise goaltenders don't grow on trees. It's not even worth discussing. They retool the D and give him more rest in the regular season.
Didn't we do this in 2010? What makes you think it will work any better this time? I ask that in the context of someone who's been reading all the posters saying there won't be changes in terms of coaching or even management.

You're right about the course of action, but even that course of action for Flower suggests significant change beyond moving Martin and maybe Michalek or Orpik.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #118
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Franchise goaltenders don't grow on trees. It's not even worth discussing. They retool the D and give him more rest in the regular season.
Sure. Still a good idea to get a very competent backup so Fleury can rest. Then if he falters for a fourth year in a row in the playoffs you can insert the backup and have some chance of winning.
Fleury is what he is. Very athletic, much better positionally than he used to be, his rebound control had improved greatly before this series. He also loses focus, handles the puck poorly, and for whatever reason has been average to bad the last two playoffs and now this one. Unfortunately whatever he does in the regular season will begin to be overshadowed by his play in the postseason. Lets hope next year his playoff performance overshadows his regular season in a good way.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:48 PM
  #119
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Sure. Still a good idea to get a very competent backup so Fleury can rest. Then if he falters for a fourth year in a row in the playoffs you can insert the backup and have some chance of winning.
Fleury is what he is. Very athletic, much better positionally than he used to be, his rebound control had improved greatly before this series. He also loses focus, handles the puck poorly, and for whatever reason has been average to bad the last two playoffs and now this one. Unfortunately whatever he does in the regular season will begin to be overshadowed by his play in the postseason. Lets hope next year his playoff performance overshadows his regular season in a good way.
I'm not sure that Fleury was BAD last year as much as he was bad in two of the losses. There is a difference. That said, I do agree on the need for better, much better, than Brent Johnson.

I also think Giles Meloche's time has come and gone.

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Old
04-16-2012, 09:01 PM
  #120
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I'm not sure that Fleury was BAD last year as much as he was bad in two of the losses. There is a difference. That said, I do agree on the need for better, much better, than Brent Johnson.

I also think Giles Meloche's time has come and gone.
He had two terrible games and 4 games where he let up 2 or less goals including 1 in game 7, which should be enough to win the series.

Had Duper scored on that 2 on 0 in game 6 (with Adams IIRC) no one would be using that series to "prove" MAF is a bet goalie.

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Old
04-16-2012, 09:04 PM
  #121
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Re:

Well I posted this on April Fool's Day and the MAFpologist trolls with 50,000 posts told me to GTFO:

"Well after today's "performance", his Save percentage is .9120, which ranks him 29th in the league. The MAF-pologists have their rationales (hey Steigerwald told me he's awesome, for example)- but the objective evidence is that he's the 29th best goalie in the league by save percentage. Either he gets his fragile French-Canadien psyche under control and steps it up, or it's a first-round exit barring Malkin/Crosby putting up 6 goals a night."

It's basically at the point now where he's letting in pucks traveling 1 mph. He doesn't just suck at this point, he $!#%ing sucks and here's my new prediction- we never win another playoff series with MAF as our starting goaltender. http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...2/seasontype/3

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Old
04-16-2012, 09:26 PM
  #122
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here is another hater:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...134517137.html

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Old
04-16-2012, 09:30 PM
  #123
Sivek
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
His current save percentage is .798, the lowest of any goaltender to make at least three appearances in a playoff since Jim Carey's worst-ever .744 in 97 minutes in 1996. Currently, his save percentage is bottom-5 ever. His current GAA is 6.34, the second-worst all-time among that same group behind Greg Stefan's 7.39 for Detroit in 1985.

That is pretty damn amazing.

Article makes mostly every point I've ever tried to make about MAF and clutch.

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Old
04-16-2012, 10:44 PM
  #124
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Fleury misses Hal Gill in the playoffs. I remember watching that guy just stand there taking up space between the shooter and the goaltender constantly taking pucks off from rocket shots from guys like Alexander Ovechkin. Goalies gotta love that.

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Old
04-17-2012, 12:47 AM
  #125
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You serious?

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