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Old
11-18-2003, 06:18 PM
  #76
barrytrotzsneck
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you're again overlooking the fact that legwand isn't a sniper. he's got the ability to score goals, yes(was on pace for about 27, before he was injured last year) but he is a DEFENSIVE FORWARD. one of the best shutdown forwards in the game. would you gripe at peca because he doesn't score a lot of goals? no. because you don't expect him to. but to say the legwand is overrated or worthless is silly, and displays that you only know as much about hockey as the stats will show you. but it's all silly, because i wouldnt' mind having comrie in nashville, but there's no way that legwand is involved. if he was...i'd be irate, as would most preds fans.

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11-18-2003, 06:19 PM
  #77
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6/49? I'm guessing its the lotto, and no i don't, it isn't about being psychic, it is about being realistic and confident in my ability to judge a player i have seen well over 50 times in the past 2 years. Something i don't think many of the others on this board can say they have had the luxury of doing. Look at the pace he was on las year, and if you say its toohard to pro-rate something like that then tell that to everyone who is saying that comrie "was on pace" to score XX amount of points last year before he got hurt.

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11-18-2003, 06:20 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Double

Edit...for Dawgbone: do todd marchant and comrie have similar upsides because comrie hasn't scored much more than Marchant did last year when he played on the top line and scored points at a clip he had never scored before in his long career? No, points don't mean everything, alot of the points you score depend on your linemates.

Last year Leggy got 1 "good" linemate in Johansson and he began to show his offensive upside which i believe is closer to lecavalier thanto comrie. Legwand i believe needs a place to go and he needs to be told to play offensive and just let it rip, something he will be able to do once he leaves Nashville. The reason for this is when he first came to the league his icetime was determined by how responsible he played defensively. Trotz was all over him to be a defensive center thinking that he could just pick up the offense whenever Trotz asked him to. Thats not the way it works for young players, look at Olli JOkinen,
MArchant - 30 years old
Comrie - 23 years old

Thanks though... but that begs another question... was that simply a combination of more responsibilities and more ice time, or was it more to do with finally having a breakout year? i.e. an up blip on a career full of highs and lows. A great year when his contract is up a season after his worst season in 6 years?

And do you mean the Same Jokinen with a whopping 11 points in 20 games this season? Even the sun shines on a dog's butt every now and then.

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Old
11-18-2003, 06:30 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Double
6/49? I'm guessing its the lotto, and no i don't, it isn't about being psychic, it is about being realistic and confident in my ability to judge a player i have seen well over 50 times in the past 2 years. Something i don't think many of the others on this board can say they have had the luxury of doing. Look at the pace he was on las year, and if you say its toohard to pro-rate something like that then tell that to everyone who is saying that comrie "was on pace" to score XX amount of points last year before he got hurt.
Pace is wonderful... but it is meaningless... pace just means you did great in the limited amount you played.

Wonderful... Comrie is chastized because of the points and the pace he put up last year, but Legwand is reveared.

If you want to use pace, fine... if both players were healthy and played a full season Comrie would have out-scored Legwand. How do I know? It is about being realistic and confident in my abilities to judge a player.

When Comrie got hurt, he had played 41 games he had 14 goals and 20 assists and was a -4. That averages to 28 goals and 40 assists (68 points) in 82 games which is 0.83 ppg, much higher than Legwands 0.75.

I don't beleive in pro-rating totals. I personally think it is useless, baseless and without merit, as chances are if a player is on pace for 65 points 20 games into the season, it is extremely rare that they will get it.

You want a comparison... Legwands best year is roughly comparable to Comrie's worst.

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Old
11-18-2003, 06:38 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
you're again overlooking the fact that legwand isn't a sniper. he's got the ability to score goals, yes(was on pace for about 27, before he was injured last year) but he is a DEFENSIVE FORWARD. one of the best shutdown forwards in the game. would you gripe at peca because he doesn't score a lot of goals? no. because you don't expect him to. but to say the legwand is overrated or worthless is silly, and displays that you only know as much about hockey as the stats will show you. but it's all silly, because i wouldnt' mind having comrie in nashville, but there's no way that legwand is involved. if he was...i'd be irate, as would most preds fans.
The Oilers don't need a DEFENSIVE FORWARD. They need a player who can contribute similar to what Comrie did on the first line. The Oilers already have 5 or 6 guys who are good Defensive forwards, but really only one player who is truely gifted offensively.

Legwand isn't over-rated, and he isn't worthless, but I don't value him as highly as comrie because I have seen Cormie take a game over offensively and lead the Oilers. I have seen him grind it out to score clutch goals, and I have seen him make defencemen look silly. There aren't many players who can do this, and even fewer who are as young as Comrie.

I guess it has a lot to do with how you view the game... the preds play a very defensive system, and Legwand is suited to that, where as Comrie is more suited to the Oilers style of taking more offensive risks, and pressing.

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Old
11-18-2003, 06:44 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
he is a DEFENSIVE FORWARD. one of the best shutdown forwards in the game..
You got to be joking, right. You guys were previously suggesting that he has all this untapped offensive ability. Now he is is one of the top shutdown forwards in the league .Thats laughable. Oh , no, now we are comparing him to Mike Peca.This is getting even better.
I get it, hes a young Mike Modano. Why didnt you just say it then we could have had a big laugh a while back.
Oh, & btw, Legwand throughout his career where Trotz has been so miserly the way he dishes out ice time has averaged all of 3 seconds less than the little puke (aka Comrie).
Listen, I am not saying that Comrie is way better or even better in terms of value, but for anyone to outright dismiss a trade proposal because its somehow inequitable for the Preds has got their head firmly up their ying yang & should visit a proctologist.

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:43 PM
  #82
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I think this is a workable trade because of what comrie and legwand can bring to their new teams. Comrie has enough skill to make his linemates score more. He can carry a line. Nashville is so thin at forward scoring that they need this type of player. He also is more charismatic on the ice and that gets butts into the seats. When he scores 3 points in a game, he is the first, second, and third star.

I think legwand would do better on a quality team. I think he could be this generation's stevie Y. He is very very good but it has more to do with his smarts and heart than with raw skill. He can quietly score 2 points in a game.

This trade would benefit both teams.

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:48 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
Wow, with Oates here now, and legwand and Hamhuis a possibility, you can only imagine the lines.

Smyth Oates Hemsky
York Legwand Dvorak
Torres Stoll Isbister
Pisani Horcoff Moreau
Pisani Reasoner Moreau (when healthy)
(assuming Chimera or Laraque gets dealt)

Brewer Semenov
Smith Staios
Hamhuis Bergeron
That is a sick line up ...My god man if only that deal; Comrie + Laraque can shore up that kind of return.... but its fun imagining possiblities. That has gotta be the most well rounded line up in the league.

GXL

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Old
11-18-2003, 07:52 PM
  #84
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I agree, there is not a snowball's chance in hell of Comrie landing Legwand. Once Legwand went down last year, the preds didn't win for how long? He is essential to that team, and we would definitely have to pay big to get him.

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Old
11-18-2003, 08:02 PM
  #85
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This may sound dumb, but all these rumors about a big shake up comming in Ottawa may force Radek Bonk out of town, and maybe a 3 team deal could happen here. Bonk to Nashville, Comrie and Ferguson to Ottawa, and Phillips and Patrick Eaves to Edmonton. Ok, maybe that's a little much comming our way, but I would really like to get a 2nd line centre and a top 4 d-man. With Oates here, we don't have to worry about a centre stepping in right away, which is why Eaves qualifies.

 
Old
11-18-2003, 08:14 PM
  #86
GorillazXL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T$$$
This may sound dumb, but all these rumors about a big shake up comming in Ottawa may force Radek Bonk out of town, and maybe a 3 team deal could happen here. Bonk to Nashville, Comrie and Ferguson to Ottawa, and Phillips and Patrick Eaves to Edmonton. Ok, maybe that's a little much comming our way, but I would really like to get a 2nd line centre and a top 4 d-man. With Oates here, we don't have to worry about a centre stepping in right away, which is why Eaves qualifies.
i don't think that's totally off, I don't think Philips and Eaves is too much to ask in return, we would have to sweeten the pot a little more though (Fergy isn't great trade bait) say Rita/Salmo...then I think Mucks would listen.

GXL

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Old
11-18-2003, 11:04 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
I get it, hes a young Mike Modano. Why didnt you just say it then we could have had a big laugh a while back.
....

Listen, I am not saying that Comrie is way better or even better in terms of value, but for anyone to outright dismiss a trade proposal because its somehow inequitable for the Preds has got their head firmly up their ying yang & should visit a proctologist.
Actually you are right. He has been compared to Mike Modano for most of his short career.

And why shouldn’t people dismiss trade proposals that aren’t equal for both teams. If it’s ok to dismiss trades that are not equal for the Oilers why would it be stupid to do that for the Predators?

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Old
11-19-2003, 05:38 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillazXL
i don't think that's totally off, I don't think Philips and Eaves is too much to ask in return, we would have to sweeten the pot a little more though (Fergy isn't great trade bait) say Rita/Salmo...then I think Mucks would listen.

GXL
yeah, no doubt we have to move some forwards around, it's ridiculous how crowded we are up front. We at least need some prospects who aren't, yes aren't NHL ready, because Rita has been down in the AHL about 2 years too long, yet there is no way he's going to crack our lineup.

 
Old
11-20-2003, 04:49 AM
  #89
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Update from Spector's today-
My thanks to Greg LaPlant for the following on the Predators: "Not starting any rumors, just commenting on the Nashville rumors. GM David Poile and coach Barry Trotz both regularly appear on area sportstalk radio programs, and the last thing I heard Trotz saying is that Legwand was put on a line with Hartnell and Hall to help get his heart back into the game. Both of those wingers play with emotion, something that Legwand hasn't seemed to have this year. He's under a lot of pressure by fans who think he should be putting up more points and taking more of a leadership role on the offense. Management may be thinking the same thing, and that a change of scenery may be best for the young center.

Plus, Denis Arkhipov has been playing well on a line with Vladimir Orszagh and Martin Erat. Poile may be less enthusiastic of breaking up the only solid offensive line he has going right now.

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Old
11-20-2003, 06:23 AM
  #90
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Quote:
SPECTOR'S MAILBAG.

My thanks to Greg LaPlant for the following on the Predators: "Not starting any rumors, just commenting on the Nashville rumors. GM David Poile and coach Barry Trotz both regularly appear on area sportstalk radio programs, and the last thing I heard Trotz saying is that Legwand was put on a line with Hartnell and Hall to help get his heart back into the game. Both of those wingers play with emotion, something that Legwand hasn't seemed to have this year. He's under a lot of pressure by fans who think he should be putting up more points and taking more of a leadership role on the offense. Management may be thinking the same thing, and that a change of scenery may be best for the young center.
Just fan speculation, obviously, but it sounds like not all is rosy in Pred-land.

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Old
11-20-2003, 02:03 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T$$$
This may sound dumb, but all these rumors about a big shake up comming in Ottawa may force Radek Bonk out of town, and maybe a 3 team deal could happen here. Bonk to Nashville, Comrie and Ferguson to Ottawa, and Phillips and Patrick Eaves to Edmonton. Ok, maybe that's a little much comming our way, but I would really like to get a 2nd line centre and a top 4 d-man. With Oates here, we don't have to worry about a centre stepping in right away, which is why Eaves qualifies.
Quite the three way deal you proposed:

Edmonton gets:

Phillips and Eaves

for

Comrie and Ferguson


Ottawa gets:

Comrie and Ferguson

for

Bonk, Phillips and Eaves


Nashville gets:

Bonk

for

nothing


Back to the old drawing board, I'd say.

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Old
11-20-2003, 02:11 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
Quite the three way deal you proposed:

Edmonton gets:

Phillips and Eaves

for

Comrie and Ferguson


Ottawa gets:

Comrie and Ferguson

for

Bonk, Phillips and Eaves


Nashville gets:

Bonk

for

nothing


Back to the old drawing board, I'd say.
i'll take it!

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