Columbus:
Derek Roy
Buffalo 1st 2012
Nashville 1st 2012
Cond Buffalo 2nd 2012 (if Roy doesn't resign)
Idea here is to draft Galchenyuk. Then our center situation is Ennis, Galchenyuk, Hodgson and Adam for the next 5-6 years (with Adam being replacable)
Columbus does it to get a center who can play with Nash (replace Carter). They can pick up one of the top d-men with Buf's pick and there is Nashville's sweetner. The Cond (may be too high) is to give Columbus something when Roy leaves them next year.
I think their GM is looking at that #2 pick as untradeable. They are many years away from competeing.
You deal logically with facts yet you don't read the post nor do you quote it properly.(shaking my head)
I proposed Roy + Buf 1st for Toronto OR NYI OR MON PICK
that is Derek roy to move up 7-9 spots not Roy for Tor 1st.
In typical hockeybuzz fashion you butcher it. I think someone like the Islanders could bite. The Islanders and also looking for defencemen we have extra.
I quoted and responded to your statement correctly and completely within the first post that I made responding to your post, when I was talking about bottom feeder teams in general. Also, in my next post responding to Awwufelloff, I mentioned Toronto and Montreal.
I simplified your argument to just Toronto in the third post that I made, for the sake of succinctness and to properly set up humor. This is a common literary technique.
In any case, as I have explained now several more times than should be necessary, none of the teams you mention would be interested in trading down and out of a position to draft Grigorenko or Galchenyuk in exchange for one year of Roy.
The thing is the Columbus was shopping Nash and still might be in the offseason. They're in full rebuild mode now. So why would they give up a #2 overall for a one year rental and two lower tier first rounders when they can shop Nash for even better and keep the pick and draft a new #1 future center.
This isn't the NFL where a couple of mid first rounders are just as valuable as a 2-4 pick. The drop off in quality of talent is huge. There are some draft years where only a half of the top ten drafted players even make an impact in the NHL while most of the remaining first rounders are busts.
Your not going to land a top 3 pick with a scrub like Roy and some mid level picks.
Columbus is looking for NHL ready talent for Nash. It's the reason they didn't get a deal done at the deadline.
Columbus, as a franchise, cannot afford 3 more years in the basement. They are losing 10-15 million a year by some reports. They needs to be in the playoffs so they don't play to half full buildings every night. I actually would not be surprised if they moved the 2nd overall for NHL ready talent. They wouldn't trade it for Roy, however, as he makes too much and isn't much of an upgrade over what they have.
A realistic cost for the 2nd overall would be:
Foligno, Hodsgon, and 11th overall. Maybe you could swap one of those out for Sekera.
AKA far too much. 4th overall is probably much more attainable and Roy makes some sense for the Isles.
Fluery would have to be traded from Pittsburgh first, That package isnt enough, and Buffalo would need to get a goalie in another trade.
To Buffalo:
Malkin
Fluery
Orpik
To Pittsburgh:
Vanek
Miller
Mcnabb
Buffalo 1st
Nashville 1st
Buffalo 2nd
CGY 2nd
I don't think Malkin is going anywhere.....Soffacet will tell you in a rational and logical way with setting you up with some succinctness for the sake of humor. A common literary technique.
so you are no longer in favor of trading him to chicago for pirri or mcneil?
I think that if they trade Roy, they need to acquire another top-9 center, preferably one who can give you at least 40 pts and be able to hold his own against good competition. It doesn't have to be in the same deal. For instance, I'd trade Roy for McNeill/Pirri if we were acquiring someone like Kelly. And if they could net someone like Moore, who isn't incompetent offensively, to anchor the 4th line, even better.
I think that if they trade Roy, they need to acquire another top-9 center, preferably one who can give you at least 40 pts and be able to hold his own against good competition. It doesn't have to be in the same deal. For instance, I'd trade Roy for McNeill/Pirri if we were acquiring someone like Kelly. And if they could net someone like Moore, who isn't incompetent offensively, to anchor the 4th line, even better.
Would you trade roy for pirri, if we signed Stoll?
Would you trade roy for pirri, if we signed Stoll?
I'm skeptical of Stoll right now. I don't think it can be said too many times how poor he was this season--in a contract season, no less. He averaged .77 pts/60 mins at ES. For a frame of reference, Kaleta and Ellis averaged .86. He again produced pretty well on the PP, and he'd be a good point-shooter on the second PP unit. He's good at faceoffs and would add some sand, but I do think his defensive abilities are a tad overrated--I recall Murray saying when they acquired Richards that they now had a second shutdown center to go along with Kopi, the implication being that Stoll was not that. At the same time, Gerbe-Stoll-? could be a solid bottom-6 line
It'd come down to price. He's going to need to take a serious paycut for me to be interested. Something like 2yrs/$4m? I'm probably in. Something like 3-4 years at $3+ per, I'm out. And I'd want insurance in the form of a good 4C if we went with Stoll at 3C. Again, someone like Moore.
I'd probably do it just from an asset perspective. I think Buffalo needs to put as many good, young forwards in its system as it possibly can, either to develop or to use as trade pieces when good players pop free.
I'm skeptical of Stoll right now. I don't think it can be said too many times how poor he was this season--in a contract season, no less. He averaged .77 pts/60 mins at ES. For a frame of reference, Kaleta and Ellis averaged .86. He again produced pretty well on the PP, and he'd be a good point-shooter on the second PP unit. He's good at faceoffs and would add some sand, but I do think his defensive abilities are a tad overrated--I recall Murray saying when they acquired Richards that they now had a second shutdown center to go along with Kopi, the implication being that Stoll was not that. At the same time, Gerbe-Stoll-? could be a solid bottom-6 line
It'd come down to price. He's going to need to take a serious paycut for me to be interested. Something like 2yrs/$4m? I'm probably in. Something like 3-4 years at $3+ per, I'm out. And I'd want insurance in the form of a good 4C if we went with Stoll at 3C. Again, someone like Moore.
I'd probably do it just from an asset perspective. I think Buffalo needs to put as many good, young forwards in its system as it possibly can, either to develop or to use as trade pieces when good players pop free.
id go 3 yrs / 9.0 / 3 per
i think it's misleading to look at a 3rd line centers evens strength production, on a team that for most of the year was one of the worst even strength offensive teams....for example:
kopitar : 2.25 per 60
Poms : 2.24 per 60
Staff : 2.18 per 60
for the record... Stoll's previous 3 seasons with LA
10-11 1.61
09-10 1.65
08-09 1.40
Unless you are going to begin arguing that derek roy's trade value should be measured by his 1.58 PTS per 60 this season, i suggest taking a more holistic view
i think it's misleading to look at a 3rd line centers evens strength production, on a team that for most of the year was one of the worst even strength offensive teams....for example:
kopitar : 2.25 per 60
Poms : 2.24 per 60
Staff : 2.18 per 60
for the record... Stoll's previous 3 seasons with LA
10-11 1.61
09-10 1.65
08-09 1.40
Unless you are going to begin arguing that derek roy's trade value should be measured by his 1.58 PTS per 60 this season, i suggest taking a more holistic view
If Roy's production in 11-12 was what it had been in previous years, he'd be worth a hell of a lot more than Pirri. Anyways, that's a different conversation. I said I'd probably do it, too. I'd take five more years of team control over Pirri and adding another good (legitimate) center prospect to our organization, even if I'm not high on Stoll. We need to add players to that 20-23 year old core, and start turning over the Rochester core.
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't want to take on any long-term deals this summer. I don't want to give out anything more than a year or two. We can't add anymore potential albatrosses, and I want us to be freeing up as much space as possible with what could be a very good 2013 UFA class (and we're not winning anything of importance next year): Getzlaf, Perry, Hartnell, Morrow, Clowe, Horton, Zajac, possibly Weber, et al. Obviously, some of those guys will be re-signed long before then, but with financial issues facing the Ducks and Devs, and possible changes in Dallas and Anaheim, some of those guys may pop free, and we need to be prepared to pounce.
Again, I know you're a big fan of Stoll. I'm not. Difference of opinion and no big deal.
I still think Roy to Vancouver has legs if they continue the flameout. There isn't another top six center on the market who can fit into the Canucks cap structure, they really need scoring depth, and unless they trade Edler, Kesler or (to a lesser extent) Burrows, they don't have the assets to get this year's Richards/Carter/Burns.
I still think Roy to Vancouver has legs if they continue the flameout. There isn't another top six center on the market who can fit into the Canucks cap structure, they really need scoring depth, and unless they trade Edler, Kesler or (to a lesser extent) Burrows, they don't have the assets to get this year's Richards/Carter/Burns.
What would the Canucks have to offer that Regier would want for Roy, though?
Chicago isn't great place to develop youth though, it's a team that's trying to win Calder Cups and I think that he'd be a welcome addition to Rochester with the potential to be a key call-up for Buffalo in the coming season as well.
He's not really the centerpiece of the deal anyway, though. The key thing is to get 3 (!) first round picks to play with and then either use them to move allllllllll the way up in the draft or to get a young top 6-9 pivot.
Chicago isn't great place to develop youth though, it's a team that's trying to win Calder Cups and I think that he'd be a welcome addition to Rochester with the potential to be a key call-up for Buffalo in the coming season as well.
He's not really the centerpiece of the deal anyway, though. The key thing is to get 3 (!) first round picks to play with and then either use them to move allllllllll the way up in the draft or to get a young top 6-9 pivot.
Schroeder wasn't anything of note his rookie season in Manitoba and he was pretty stagnant this year. In the few viewings I got of him in Rochester, I tried watching him and he was a total non-impact guy.
I wouldn't want him taking up a pro contract and playing time in Rochester.
And I wouldn't deal Roy for a late round 1st as something like 12, 24, and 27 is not going to get the Sabres a top end pick.
Teams don't trade out of the top 5 and down to 12. Since the lockout, there has been 1 trade where a team traded out of the top 5 and that was moving back only two spots from 5 to 7.
