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Difference between Isles (Snow) and Leafs (Burke)

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Old
04-14-2012, 09:49 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Janson View Post
Milbury, everyone's favorite fallback. Do you want Maloney back? What do either have to do with Garth and Burke? All Garth is a glorified yes man, that is what Wang wants and that is what he hires.
Smith, Nolan, Jaffe, LaFontaine agree. No accountability just riding it out till 2015, New York Islanders.
i don't think that most of us are unaware of Wang's plan. he may be an Isles fan, but he is viewing the organization as an investment, always has. appeasing the fans is part of his plan, but not because he loves us, it's because a happy fanbase contributes to the fiscal success of the organization. IMO, after the first few years that he was owner, he realized that the best course of action, for this team (given our inability to attract top players), is to rebuild. so, he hires Snow to oversee the rebuild. Snow is doing what his boss wants. not a surprise, as most of us do what our boss tells us to.

i am not, as some would state, calling Snow a great GM. or even a good GM. just saying that he hasn't done enough to warrant being fired.

same with Burke. i would give him one more year.

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04-14-2012, 09:58 AM
  #152
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Actually Wang is the Owner and Garth was hired (scrambled to hire, thought this guy was interm) to be the boss of this club. That is what the GM job description entails, Wang chooses to blur those lines. Too many chefs (Bruno?) spoil the soup. It works for 29 other NHL teams but we are always the exception. Wang always knows better than anyone else.

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04-14-2012, 10:03 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by rikker View Post
i am not, as some would state, calling Snow a great GM. or even a good GM. just saying that he hasn't done enough to warrant being fired.

same with Burke. i would give him one more year.
I agree, I don't want to see him fired because I can only imagine who Wanger would replace him with. Maybe he'd get the banker from Deal or No Deal, he always gets players to accept the lowest offer.

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04-14-2012, 11:30 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ledzep1212 View Post
Forgot this was the Islanders board on HF, where facts, and stats do not matter. I will do my best in the future to lead negativity cloud my judgement and make sure I avoid using stats and facts at all costs.
The only facts that matter which you refuse to believe is in Snows last 5 years of GM he has 5 lottery finishes in a row. You can go on and on defending Snow but your not making a good case at all. You are trying too hard in defending Snow.

This team is not going anywhere with Snow at the top. How hard is this to understand? All this team has done under Snow is is finish in the lottery.

In the 2009-2010 season we finished with the same record as this year. Snow is a failure and for you to defend him like you are shows how misinformed you really are. Your defending Snow as if he is a proven GM. Please take the HOMER goggles off just for a second. Snow has this franchise in a standstill just treading water. I dont want to hear any crap about "stockpiling prospects" because no one knows if anyone of them is gonna be a top player in ther NHL.

Look at the standings the past 5 years and you can see the facts. You cant argue these FACTS! 5 LOTTERY FINISHES IN A ROW!

We are just treading water year after year and adding more prospects and throwing them into the NHL and destroying there development is not progress.
Please stop drinking the KOOL AID and take the homer goggles off and accept the FACTS of the last 5 years. Snow is a FAILURE!

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04-14-2012, 12:27 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Isles4ever82 View Post
We are just treading water year after year and adding more prospects and throwing them into the NHL and destroying there development is not progress.
We replace last years prospects with this years and on and on.

What if Garth/Wang just stayed with the consensus BPA for the last 5 years…
2007 skip
2008 Filatov/Schenn
2009 Tavares
2010 Fowler
2011 Couturier

I can’t imagine anyone here wouldn’t be happy with that. Garth/Wang love to go off the board. Sorry, just not looking forward to July at all.

The last 2 seasons Garth has said the rebuild was over and believes this a play-off team, really. And now this team doesn't need to improve because it beat Pitt in back to back meaningless games.

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04-15-2012, 12:38 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Janson View Post
We replace last years prospects with this years and on and on.

What if Garth/Wang just stayed with the consensus BPA for the last 5 years…
2007 skip
2008 Filatov/Schenn
2009 Tavares
2010 Fowler
2011 Couturier

I can’t imagine anyone here wouldn’t be happy with that. Garth/Wang love to go off the board. Sorry, just not looking forward to July at all.

The last 2 seasons Garth has said the rebuild was over and believes this a play-off team, really. And now this team doesn't need to improve because it beat Pitt in back to back meaningless games.
For our Isles sake, I hope Strome is the real deal and blows us along with the rest of the NHL away. Because right now, Couturier is looking really good. See what coming into a organization dedicated to winning does to a players development.

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04-15-2012, 06:07 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Isles75 View Post
For our Isles sake, I hope Strome is the real deal and blows us along with the rest of the NHL away. Because right now, Couturier is looking really good. See what coming into a organization dedicated to winning does to a players development.
i hope so too, but to compare how draft picks are developing between different organizations is like comparing apples to oranges. no one, especially one of us armchair GM's, can say with certainty, that Couturier would have fit in with the Isles. or that he is better than Strome.

yes, the Flyers system is much better than ours, and i think it makes a huge difference for the kids.

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04-15-2012, 08:28 PM
  #158
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i hope so too, but to compare how draft picks are developing between different organizations is like comparing apples to oranges. no one, especially one of us armchair GM's, can say with certainty, that Couturier would have fit in with the Isles. or that he is better than Strome.

yes, the Flyers system is much better than ours, and i think it makes a huge difference for the kids.
Total agreement but you can't not look and be impressed by how well players we passed on are contributing. Everytime, you see Gabby get a game winner for the Raggies it sucks even more.
I think 5 years is about the cut off to see if a player was the right pick so this is a make or break year for Bailey. As of right now, I think we really could have used a player like Schenn these last 4 seasons over JB. For me Burke is still winning that trade over Snow but lets see this year.

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04-16-2012, 12:08 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by rikker View Post
i don't think that most of us are unaware of Wang's plan. he may be an Isles fan, but he is viewing the organization as an investment, always has. appeasing the fans is part of his plan, but not because he loves us, it's because a happy fanbase contributes to the fiscal success of the organization. IMO, after the first few years that he was owner, he realized that the best course of action, for this team (given our inability to attract top players), is to rebuild. so, he hires Snow to oversee the rebuild. Snow is doing what his boss wants. not a surprise, as most of us do what our boss tells us to.

i am not, as some would state, calling Snow a great GM. or even a good GM. just saying that he hasn't done enough to warrant being fired.

same with Burke. i would give him one more year.
-Wang was willing to (and) did open up the wallet for a while-people forget that. It didn't work, and fans still show up in any high numbers (except for one decent year in 02-yes DECENT year). So why open up the wallet more?

-Having a crappy arena, high cost of living, high taxes, are not his fault (3 major reasons why UFAs don't sign there).

-EVERY owner cares about finances more than the fans-it's called a BUSINESS. I know it's hockey and that we all love hockey. But it's a business first and formost. If you were losing millions and millions of dollars a year would you stick with it for ten years straight? Most people wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong Wang is a terrible owner, and makes some of the worst decisions around. But attacking him for treating like the business is ridiculous-because it IS a business.

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04-16-2012, 12:38 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Wang was willing to (and) did open up the wallet for a while-people forget that. It didn't work, and fans still show up in any high numbers (except for one decent year in 02-yes DECENT year). So why open up the wallet more?

-Having a crappy arena, high cost of living, high taxes, are not his fault (3 major reasons why UFAs don't sign there).

-EVERY owner cares about finances more than the fans-it's called a BUSINESS. I know it's hockey and that we all love hockey. But it's a business first and formost. If you were losing millions and millions of dollars a year would you stick with it for ten years straight? Most people wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong Wang is a terrible owner, and makes some of the worst decisions around. But attacking him for treating like the business is ridiculous-because it IS a business.
Wang won't let you forget he spent money in '02, they play that Shawn Bates Penalty Shot highlight at every intermission for the last 10 years. The fact that we have one memorable play-off run every ten years isn't helping win fans back either
The joke that is Wang is yes he isn't cheap as he has to spend at least 41 million but Snow/Wang chooses spend the millions on Dipi's, Yash's, Rolston's etc...$ is an asset, to me its obvious that its something Snow/Wang really don't manage very well.

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04-16-2012, 01:07 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janson View Post
The joke that is Wang is yes he isn't cheap as he has to spend at least 41 million
That's the thing... they evade the floor to pay less than that. A lot less.

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04-16-2012, 08:50 AM
  #162
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That's the thing... they evade the floor to pay less than that. A lot less.
Its evasion but he still is paying the $ some where. He is still spending $41 million even if its not directly for the roster. Don La Greca and Chris Botta had that NHL show on ESPN radio 3 years ago and I called them with the question that the Islanders are a team that can't find players to sign with them and if they will have trouble just reaching the cap floor. To which I basically got laughed off with they won't have any problems.
Not saying I told him so but Botta loved writing about cap floor issues the following seasons.




I TOLD HIM SO!


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04-16-2012, 09:08 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Janson View Post
Its evasion but he still is paying the $ some where. He is still spending $41 million even if its not directly for the roster. Don La Greca and Chris Botta had that NHL show on ESPN radio 3 years ago and I called them with the question that the Islanders are a team that can't find players to sign with them and if they will have trouble just reaching the cap floor. To which I basically got laughed off with they won't have any problems.
Not saying I told him so but Botta loved writing about cap floor issues the following seasons.




I TOLD HIM SO!
Great! Except Wang does not pay 41 million in cash for this roster.

The artificial floor is 41, but actual cash payroll...look it up... Closer to 28 mil I believe of the top of my head.

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04-16-2012, 09:13 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Wang was willing to (and) did open up the wallet for a while-people forget that. It didn't work, and fans still show up in any high numbers (except for one decent year in 02-yes DECENT year). So why open up the wallet more?

-Having a crappy arena, high cost of living, high taxes, are not his fault (3 major reasons why UFAs don't sign there).

-EVERY owner cares about finances more than the fans-it's called a BUSINESS. I know it's hockey and that we all love hockey. But it's a business first and formost. If you were losing millions and millions of dollars a year would you stick with it for ten years straight? Most people wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong Wang is a terrible owner, and makes some of the worst decisions around. But attacking him for treating like the business is ridiculous-because it IS a business.
Ufas in NYC and NJ face the same issues as playing on LI. Gee must be the arena that's the difference...seems to me the commitment to bizarre managemt and lottery picks happens to turn players away before the arena.

Fans showed up in droves during the resurgence with pecs/Yashin. They turned away when the team flatlined AND Wang jacked up prices something like 30-50 percent in three seasons, which killed the momentum of strong walk up sales.

Granted, Wang bought the team and the tix were dirt cheap...gee, bc the team sucked when he bought it.

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04-16-2012, 11:27 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Great! Except Wang does not pay 41 million in cash for this roster.

The artificial floor is 41, but actual cash payroll...look it up... Closer to 28 mil I believe of the top of my head.
Thats the most frustrating part. I can even live with being at THE FLOOR. The REAL floor. Not a cap floor that is helped by bonus after bonus. The on ice product salary is a ****ing joke. Its criminal.

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04-16-2012, 11:45 AM
  #166
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Thats the most frustrating part. I can even live with being at THE FLOOR. The REAL floor. Not a cap floor that is helped by bonus after bonus. The on ice product salary is a ****ing joke. Its criminal.
Wang has to be the cheapest Billionaire around but I still see Chollie as more of a clown with his money than cheap. 15 years for Dicky, still paying Yash and Bates? The guy spends (spent) money, but he really really sucks at it. Pretty sure he over payed Pickett by 20 million to get the team in the first place. People need to stop worrying about how much $ Chollie is losing, its his own damn fault.

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04-16-2012, 11:47 AM
  #167
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People need to stop worrying about how much $ Chollie is losing, its his own damn fault.
At this point I don't really believe Wang is losing money. And it's extremely small if he is.

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04-16-2012, 12:37 PM
  #168
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One more time:

Wang became a billionaire when he faked income reports to shareholders, making a 13 month year. Wang LOST the billionaire title when the SEC, never finding him guilty, made him PAY IT BACK and now he's a multi-millionaire again. He was only a billionaire when he robbed shareholders, and briefly.

Notice he spent when he had shareholder money but didn't when it was his own money.

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04-16-2012, 12:44 PM
  #169
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Okay the multi-million dollar clown.

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04-16-2012, 09:23 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
-Wang was willing to (and) did open up the wallet for a while-people forget that. It didn't work, and fans still show up in any high numbers (except for one decent year in 02-yes DECENT year). So why open up the wallet more?

-Having a crappy arena, high cost of living, high taxes, are not his fault (3 major reasons why UFAs don't sign there).

-EVERY owner cares about finances more than the fans-it's called a BUSINESS. I know it's hockey and that we all love hockey. But it's a business first and formost. If you were losing millions and millions of dollars a year would you stick with it for ten years straight? Most people wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong Wang is a terrible owner, and makes some of the worst decisions around. But attacking him for treating like the business is ridiculous-because it IS a business.
Here is where I would disagree with you, because in business even when times are tough you still throw some money back into your product. He is basically letting his young core rot, which devalues it as a whole in the eyes of potential buyers. Certainly he is gearing up for a sell if he needs it - not saying he will 100% sell - but readying his escape pod just in case he has too in 2015 or so. But he has cut so much money off that his investment is getting damaged through neglect.

And he would make the money back if he put some in at this point. Just figure out what a real playoff possible team does for his attendance and multiply by the number of games and possible bonus cash from the playoffs. Even a rookie business major should be able to pen out the additional profit. Yet Wang won't even do that much. To me that signals something else going on, like he is in some kind of depressive self-destructive mode and taking everyone down for the ride with him.

The club is owned by an Emo millionaire cutter. It would also explain his masochistic fetish for watching other teams beat our skilled players like $5 hos (and take it, per Wang-mandate apparently.)


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05-03-2012, 09:05 AM
  #171
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With Petrov resigning with the KHL, what exactly did Garth trade down for now?

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05-03-2012, 09:14 AM
  #172
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I'm no Wang fan, but the guy has kept this sinking franchise in Long Island, and with the way he has been treated by the scum in Nassau, I don't foresee any other billionaire buying this team. Why buy a team that continues to get screwed by the politician of the day. Also, kill Wang all you want, he may not get big UFA's to sign here, but he does spend on his own home grown players.

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05-03-2012, 09:45 AM
  #173
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I'm no Wang fan, but the guy has kept this sinking franchise in Long Island, and with the way he has been treated by the scum in Nassau, I don't foresee any other billionaire buying this team. Why buy a team that continues to get screwed by the politician of the day. Also, kill Wang all you want, he may not get big UFA's to sign here, but he does spend on his own home grown players.
He doesn't care about winning. Based on that alone, he's a terrible owner for any NHL franchise.

Just because you can't get another date, don't be so proud to show off Rosie O'Donnel at prom.

There's a better world out there. Nothing wrong with aiming higher.

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05-03-2012, 10:21 AM
  #174
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Side note: was in Toronto last weekend and had my Isles gear on proudly...went into the bank to exchange money for stri...food and started talking hockey with the teller. Told me he envies the Isles prospects and that we will be in much better shape than the Leafs in coming years. Then when i said the Isles mgmt is not very good, he just shot me a look, to which i said, "I guess you guys arent to happy with Burke these days, eh?"
his reply:"hes a F$!#$%! moron"
so, needless to say, the grass is always greener...even in Toronto

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05-03-2012, 10:43 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
He doesn't care about winning. Based on that alone, he's a terrible owner for any NHL franchise.

Just because you can't get another date, don't be so proud to show off Rosie O'Donnel at prom.

There's a better world out there. Nothing wrong with aiming higher.
i would think that winning would make the franchise that much more valuable, so i disagree.

the only constructive thing that fans can do, if thety're unhappy, is to refuse to buy tickets...

THAT would be talking Wang's language

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