Hell, why wait until the offseason? Put Staal in the top-6 Wednesday night and just go for it. We've given up 20 goals in 3 games - it can't get any worse.
The 3C model needs to die. Staal is too damn good to be wasted. It's up to this team whether they want him fulfilling his potential here or somewhere else.
I'd rather us Just look to unload Orpik and Martin.
I think you guys are crazy for not wanting to give up Staal+ to get Ryan. Ryan is pretty much exactly what we need on the offensive end. He would make our offense literally unstoppable. Consider this:
-A RH Shot
-A 4 time 30 goal scorer (and he's only 25)
-A guy who has hardly played on the top PP unit because it's too jammed up.
-Plays a style that would fit #87 to at T.
People always seem to forget that if there is anything you can add at the deadline, it's bottom 6 forwards and good ones won't kill you. Those two lines would absolutely fill the net and terrify the league.
On the backend, move Orpik and Martin. Give Despres a shot and make a run at a top 4 defenseman.
So, you'd be subtracting (5 million in Martin, 3.75 in Orpik, 2 million in Kennedy and 4 million in Staal for a total of 14.75 million).
You'd add Ryan, Despres, 4-5 million for a guy that is coming back in the Martin trade and let's say Suter (5.1 million,5 million, 900k and 6.5 million for a total of 17.5 million).
The only thing you'd have to factor in is the money we would have to take back for Martin which will probably be a few million. For instance, say you move Martin and Kennedy for Malone.
This would cost us 3-4 million more in salary and would give us a fresh new perspective focusing on a few things:
-A top 6 that is absolutely a nightmare matchup. Heck, switch Kunitz or Malone the fact of the matter is you have a stud to play with each one of your top 2 top two centers. Sid and Geno deserve to each have their guy and entices them to want to stay. Downright scary.
-A top 4 that is a mix of two all star defenseman, a steady defensive d-man and a top notch prospect who simply just needs time and experience.
-The one spot where you fall short, is the bottom 6. Granted, it isn't as good as before. But I'll say it again, if there is anything that you can easily add at the deadline, its bottom 6 forwards. And, they won't cost you an arm and a leg.
Hell, why wait until the offseason? Put Staal in the top-6 Wednesday night and just go for it. We've given up 20 goals in 3 games - it can't get any worse.
i wouldnt rule out carolina of making an offer and join up the 2 brothers. question is what could they offer.
and i know he's had a horrible season, but we need of the orpik kind of defensemen. less of the martin.
we used to be at top top of physical teams in the east. now i think there are 3/4 teams that are much more physical then us
I don't think it's a question of "could", but rather a question of "would". If the decision is that the issue really is defense, and they still want to stay with the puck moving, but tough on the back end trend that they've tried to move with Letang and now with Despres and Morrow, Carolina actually does have a few prospects that would surely interest the Penguins (i.e. Justin Faulk and Brian Dumoulin). I highly doubt they'd be willing to part with them, though.
Ryan is a one for one deal Id do for Staal. Dunno if he's an ideal Crosby linemate with his skating, but he fits the bill of what we need in a top line winger at ES and on the PP.
He's gunning for the rocket every year in this scenario.
Could he keep up with Sid? What style of player is he? All I know is he's always scoring highlight reel goals.
He's probably slower than Neal in a straight line. But he's a shifty skater and will absolutely burns teams who don't double cover him, which will happen often here.
One on one moves are pretty sick with his size and reach.
He'd probably be a better fit with Geno. I always saw Neal and Sid fitting very well b/c they're at their best when they're hunting pucks down skating straight forward.
Whoever suggested Staal for Ryan is offering an egregious overpayment. You're trading a defensive stud center for a smaller wing who can't skate to save his life and barely puts up more points.
Whoever suggested Staal for Ryan is offering an egregious overpayment. You're trading a defensive stud center for a smaller wing who can't skate to save his life and barely puts up more points.
He's probably slower than Neal in a straight line. But he's a shifty skater and will absolute burns teams who don't double cover him, which will happen often here.
One on one moves are pretty sick with his size and reach.
He'd probably be a better fit with Geno. I always saw Neal and Sid fitting very well b/c they're at their best when they're hunting pucks down skating straight forward.
Not sure I agree. Ryan is pretty effective on the cycle and isn't a bad skater by any means. I think part of the problem is that Sid is always playing with North/South guys. I would love for once (besides Hossa) to have a guy who can skate the puck up the ice and take on defenders. Or have a guy that when Sid hits as the late man who can just absolutely snipe one.
IMO, ideally, you'd love to see a:
Kunitz-Crosby-Ryan line. Just a line that has a little bit of everything. That line coupled with say a:
Malone-Malkin-Neal or Tangradi-Malkin-Neal line would be sick. Heck, even if you make it:
You would likely have Geno and Neal going against second pairings... just rediculous.
Pens scored the most points in the league and have arguably the best offensive core locked up long term. The offense is also the only bright spot in the series (or maybe it's just Bryzgalov giving us this illusion). No core forward is leaving. Neither is Letang.
Orpik is still a big piece of the team, and by many accounts is a voice in the locker room. He's also a big time hitting, physical Dman which is not common. I doubt he is moved, though it's more possible than the previously mentioned forwards.
Fleury could be argued as team MVP this season along with Geno. He was (is?) that important to the team success. The team has had major playoff success with him in nets, but I can see why this series would worry Shero. Still, I can't see the Pens just giving up on Fleury like this. He has had 2 bad playoff series in his career iirc, Montreal and this one. It's unlikely Shero will find a better, or even equal, alternative to Fleury.
Perhaps he could dump Martin, pick up a replacement, and relegate Orpik to the 3rd pairing.
...or DB could instill a more defensive system/ that bald assistant coach could start teaching them how to play defense. Seemed to work last season.
Whoever suggested Staal for Ryan is offering an egregious overpayment. You're trading a defensive stud center for a smaller wing who can't skate to save his life and barely puts up more points.
I said it way on page 1 IIRC. But Shero will want Staal for Ryan+ because Staal in a top 6 role will be a 30-40G 60-70P with elite D 2nd C for them, which would be worth more then Ryan. What Ryan would do here is not making his trade value higher, it's what he's doing right now which is 30G.
Not sure I agree. Ryan is pretty effective on the cycle and isn't a bad skater by any means.
Certainly not saying he couldn't play with Sid. But if I had to choose which center would get the most out of each player, I'd go with Sid/Neal and Malkin/Ryan all day.
Pretty terrifying scenario for coaches. Do you put your shutdown D pairing on the 2nd best player in the world and the team's best winger? In doing so, you just allowed Sid lesser matchups with a 40 goal winger on his line.
I said it way on page 1 IIRC. But Shero will want Staal for Ryan+ because Staal in a top 6 role will be a 30G 60P elite 2nd C for them, which would be worth more then Ryan. What Ryan would do here is not making his trade value higher, it's what he's doing right now which is 30G.
I think you can make arguments both ways. If I'm a GM, I'm not making a blockbuster deal on the idea of "IF" Staal was in a top 6 role. I would want to see it. That's why there would have to be other parts involved IMO.
Why are people clamoring for wingers? I don't know what series you guys are watching, but in the one I'm watching I see a team that needs to keep pucks out of their net. Our offense has been fine. In fact, you could argue that the only positive of the series is that we've still created, and converted, a lot of chances. And this is with arguably the best player in the world being pretty quiet(something that is typically not going to happen). Offense is just not a problem right now.
The Pens need to be looking at physical dmen and a solid backup goalie this offseason.
Certainly not saying he couldn't play with Sid. But if I had to choose which center would get the most out of each player, I'd go with Sid/Neal and Malkin/Ryan all day.
Pretty terrifying scenario for coaches. Do you put your shutdown D pairing on the 2nd best player in the world and the team's best winger? In doing so, you just allowed Sid lesser matchups with a 40 goal winger on his line.
I hear you, not sure I completely agree but I can see your points.
I think it depends. If you use Ryan as the skill winger on the line, I don't think he needs to have blazing speed. I'd rather him be on one side and the other winger on that line be Kunitz/Dupuis.
Why are people clamoring for wingers? I don't know what series you guys are watching, but in the one I'm watching I see a team that needs to keep pucks out of their net. Our offense has been fine. In fact, you could argue that the only positive of the series is that we've still created, and converted, a lot of chances. And this is with arguably the best player in the world being pretty quiet(something that is typically not going to happen). Offense is just not a problem right now.
The Pens need to be looking at physical dmen and a solid backup goalie this offseason.
The conversation is based around Staal wanting to leave possibly and Shero being forced to deal him this summer for the best return possible.
Why are people clamoring for wingers? I don't know what series you guys are watching, but in the one I'm watching I see a team that needs to keep pucks out of their net. Our offense has been fine. In fact, you could argue that the only positive of the series is that we've still created, and converted, a lot of chances. And this is with arguably the best player in the world being pretty quiet(something that is typically not going to happen). Offense is just not a problem right now.
The Pens need to be looking at physical dmen and a solid backup goalie this offseason.
I'm with you but view my plan above.
If Shero plays his cards right, he can upgrade his top 6, make his top 4 tougher to play against (adding a STUD in Suter). The biggest hit will be in the bottom 6 but the catch is, that we give young players a shot and if they fail, we have the deadline to fix the bottom 6. Bottom 6 forwards are much easier/cheaper to find come deadline time than any of the other two options.
The conversation is based around Staal wanting to leave possibly and Shero being forced to deal him this summer for the best return possible.
What shutdown D-man would you trade Staal for?
Honestly, I don't know. I'd have to look at the rosters around the league to see who has the potential to be moved. Not something I'm prepared to do at one in the morning. But I do know that adding a winger does little more than eat up cap space while doing absolutely nothing to address the team's current problems.
I think you can make arguments both ways. If I'm a GM, I'm not making a blockbuster deal on the idea of "IF" Staal was in a top 6 role. I would want to see it. That's why there would have to be other parts involved IMO.
well the end result won't get any worse.
