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Old
04-16-2012, 10:25 PM
  #76
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I like the fact that the refs let things go more in the playoffs and let the boys play. This was never an issue up until now. Hell, people looked forward to it.

Fans are just simply never happy. If the refs called everything and there were 13 PP's a game people would complain. If Shanahan handed out far stiffer suspensions, people would still complain. Complain, complain, complain. Why compare hockey to other sports? It's different...and that's just how I like it.
And you're complaining about fans complaining and never being happy.

There is no point in putting rules in place if they're not enforced by the officials at 100%.
Mistakes happen, sometimes it can be subjective, and they also can't see everything. So it's normal that not everything gets called.

However, consciously and purposely not calling something you clearly know is a penalty should never happen. That is retarded.
If teams have 15PPs a game, so be it. Players and teams will need to adjust and stop taking those penalties.

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04-16-2012, 10:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Skill is still key in hockey. You can't have a team with all toughness beating a truly skilled team.

Let's be real here. Philly has alot of skill and scoring. Pittsburgh has won the cup with the same core of players and Malkin winning the Conn Smythe. So it's not like that type of team doesn't work.

Philly is just hot right now and Pittsburgh isn't. Same for LA vs. Vancouver.
I don't think the Philly-Pitts series is comparable to LA-Van.
LA is playing some really good hockey. They just neutralized Vancouver well.

Philly and Pittsburgh aren't playing well. The defense and goaltending has been pathetic. It's like a contest as to which team can be the worst one. Fleury has been horrendous, really it's scary how bad he's been. I'm not even sure he'd be an AHL goaler with the way he's played.
Bryzgalov hasn't been all that much better either, but definitely not been as bad as Fleury.

And as I said, defense has also been very weak. If the Flyers don't improve there, they'll likely lose in the 2nd round.

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04-16-2012, 10:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
This league has become a bush one.
Is there any other professional league that has its head of disciplinary committee publicly state they will be less severe and strict in the POs??
How retarded is that?

Is there any other sport where fans actually chant ''referee sucks''?

It's pretty embarrassing.
I will admit that I watched "professional" wrestling in my younger days.

The NHL has become similar to this and is on the verge of becoming a parody just like professional wrestling.

"You see the bad guy reaching into his trunks to pull out a 'foreign object' and then pokes the good guy in the eye as the 'referee' turns his head"

This year..."You see the bad guy hockey player (Lucic) throw Laich down to the ice before the puck is dropped and the referee gives a penalty to Lucic and Laich".

Bush League parody in both instances.

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04-16-2012, 10:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
I doubt your story. No true Habs fan could follow this team for 40 years an not love every enforcer we ever had. I just don't buy it.

Please tell me you are lying.

No ****!!!! I thought I would be bored this year with the Habs out., but I'm in heaven. This is hockey. A gladiator sport of the finest. If anything, I'm bummed the habs chose to predict the future. Gainey was not dumb in building a fast skilled team. Unfortunately it back fired. So, here we are. Hockey at it's best. Re-tool and carry on. Bring Kordic back. Nothing I would love more then a player as good as Lucic on the tabs that would actually kick his ass in a fight....ahhhhhhhh, can't wait. I hope the new regime understands that.

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04-17-2012, 12:05 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
I love Erik Cole, but if that guy is your top goal scorer, ur team ain't that deep.
The guy who was joint 11th top goalscorer in the entire league? Also not sure how the number of goals your top goal scorer has indicates anything about the depth of your team....

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04-17-2012, 12:07 AM
  #81
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One thing Gauthier did was bring in toughness...

It's almost not even an issue anymore. Assuming we keep Staubitz.

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04-17-2012, 12:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
This is true. Unfortunately, it also means Staubitz replaces a legit third or fourth line player. It shows how little scoring depth we have that Staubitz is one of our forwards. I like the guy, but winning teams have tough guys who can also produce.
That is not true. Staubitz doesn't have to be on the ice at the time of the infraction. He can get to the guy on the next shift... Having a guy like Staubitz (or White) protects every player on the ice as they make players think twice before doing something stupid. It's the instigator rule that protects the rats.

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04-17-2012, 12:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
The guy who was joint 11th top goalscorer in the entire league? Also not sure how the number of goals your top goal scorer has indicates anything about the depth of your team....
I'm not talking about the number of goals, but Erik Cole is not supposed to be your go to guy. If Erik Cole heads into next season with the expectations of scoring 30-35, our top 6 forwards needs to be revised. If we wanna be a top team in the NHL, we need to give our players the roles they're suited for and not expect much more than what they can give us year in/year out.

Put Erik Cole in Philly or Chicago, he wouldn't have played as much because they're deep in their top 6.


And the bottom line is that were a one line team, and it proves my point.

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04-17-2012, 12:49 AM
  #84
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This year's playoffs have been nothing short of amazing. Although this is painful me to say without the Habs in there, if I take that away, these are the best playoffs in recent memory all around. I love all of it, although the cheap shots are a little unnecessary. As has been said, if the dumb ass instigator rule was abandoned, we wouldn't have those.

For people who think this proves how dumb the fighting and violence part of hockey is and that the Habs are above it, don't need toughness, etc....what exactly would we do if we got locked up in a series like these?

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04-17-2012, 12:53 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
One thing Gauthier did was bring in toughness...

It's almost not even an issue anymore. Assuming we keep Staubitz.
Gauthier did make our team bigger up front. I'll give him that. This isn't the same smurf team of recent years.

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04-17-2012, 12:58 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
I'm not talking about the number of goals, but Erik Cole is not supposed to be your go to guy. If Erik Cole heads into next season with the expectations of scoring 30-35, our top 6 forwards needs to be revised. If we wanna be a top team in the NHL, we need to give our players the roles they're suited for and not expect much more than what they can give us year in/year out.

Put Erik Cole in Philly or Chicago, he wouldn't have played as much because they're deep in their top 6.


And the bottom line is that were a one line team, and it proves my point.
Plekanec was supposed to be and always has been in recent years our go-to guy. Cole was simply a pleasant surprise. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect 25 goals from him. I think MaxPac is the one the organization are expecting to continue to grow and score 35 goals next season, not Cole.

For the first time in years the habs not only have a power forward. They have two power forwards in Cole and MaxPac. They can build on that going into next season.

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04-17-2012, 02:40 AM
  #87
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Bring back the Nords. That'll make Habs fans embrace a haterade-guzzling team full of nasties(who can also play hockey, of course).

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04-17-2012, 04:42 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
I'm not talking about the number of goals, but Erik Cole is not supposed to be your go to guy. If Erik Cole heads into next season with the expectations of scoring 30-35, our top 6 forwards needs to be revised. If we wanna be a top team in the NHL, we need to give our players the roles they're suited for and not expect much more than what they can give us year in/year out.

Put Erik Cole in Philly or Chicago, he wouldn't have played as much because they're deep in their top 6.


And the bottom line is that were a one line team, and it proves my point.
only 2 forwards in Chicago got more points than him, and only 3 in Philly...

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04-17-2012, 06:16 AM
  #89
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Hear we go again.
a long time ago I watched the NHL go down a very bad path.
I watched the broad street bullies just break every rule for 2-3 years.
They won cups because they they took the NHL by surprise and all other teams were not built to combat these guys. UNTIL, the Habs decided to fight fire with fire.
Habs ended the Flyers streak in 4 games. Bouchard, Lapoint, Savard and Robinson and more just dropped the gloves in the first 5 minutes and took care of business. That quickly ended the FLYERS and Habs won in 4 and went on to win the CUP.
I am seeing that same ugly stuff again this year. The NHL has rules and it tells it's 30 teams that the NHL is all about hockey and the ruff stuff will not be tolerated all year and the same in the playoffs.
WELL, the proof is back again. In the playoffs the rules are waved and it's a WAR. Enough with the NHL lies, the Habs MUST again fight fire with fire. It's time to hire 6 Hanson brothers and cause a HUGE problem in the NHL next year. From the get go, just like in the 70's drop all the gloves in the first 5 minutes go to WAR, forget hockey, give the Americans what they want, the WWHF, blood everywhere, two sent to hospital, Players go into the crowd, coaches on the ice too.
and yes players getting even with the stupid refs by smashing them also.
Then we can have a hockey game and the next headlines will read " greatest game ever played" Bettman will have an orgazim.

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04-17-2012, 07:26 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Habs Fan in NJ View Post
This year's playoffs have been nothing short of amazing. Although this is painful me to say without the Habs in there, if I take that away, these are the best playoffs in recent memory all around. I love all of it, although the cheap shots are a little unnecessary. As has been said, if the dumb ass instigator rule was abandoned, we wouldn't have those.

For people who think this proves how dumb the fighting and violence part of hockey is and that the Habs are above it, don't need toughness, etc....what exactly would we do if we got locked up in a series like these?
The Habs wouldn't be implicated in such series.
Just like in Detroit, or Boston, or Florida, those series have not been as physical.

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04-17-2012, 07:58 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
One thing Gauthier did was bring in toughness...

It's almost not even an issue anymore. Assuming we keep Staubitz.
IT IS still an issue. You don't go to war with Kaberle - Diaz - Weber - Campoli as part of your D. It is too easy to enter our zone or at least not painful at all. You have Emelin and Subban that can hit once in a while but that's not enough in my opinion. They are not hard to play against when battling along the boards...

And I would not be against having an aggressive power foward on Plekanek line. Lucic/Clowe type of winger. DD line will stay the same. Leblanc-Eller-Moen is the best 3rd line in my opinion. And a Staubitz-White-X 4th line would be perfect...

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04-17-2012, 08:15 AM
  #92
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IT IS still an issue. You don't go to war with Kaberle - Diaz - Weber - Campoli as part of your D. It is too easy to enter our zone or at least not painful at all.
Yea the size and toughness of our d core is a problem.


People mentioned the 93 team, they weren't goons but they were tough

Mike Keane
John LeClair
Lyle Odelin
Kurk Muller


compared to

Pleks
Gionta
Dashernais
Weber
Kaberle


We don't need goons but we need more players who can play tough. You want the James Neal's of your team able to rough it up and not be pushed around. You can't rely on the 3rd liners who aren't out there as often to toughen up your team.

It starts with the first line.

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04-17-2012, 08:30 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Hear we go again.
a long time ago I watched the NHL go down a very bad path.
I watched the broad street bullies just break every rule for 2-3 years.
They won cups because they they took the NHL by surprise and all other teams were not built to combat these guys. UNTIL, the Habs decided to fight fire with fire.
Habs ended the Flyers streak in 4 games. Bouchard, Lapoint, Savard and Robinson and more just dropped the gloves in the first 5 minutes and took care of business. That quickly ended the FLYERS and Habs won in 4 and went on to win the CUP.
I am seeing that same ugly stuff again this year. The NHL has rules and it tells it's 30 teams that the NHL is all about hockey and the ruff stuff will not be tolerated all year and the same in the playoffs.
WELL, the proof is back again. In the playoffs the rules are waved and it's a WAR. Enough with the NHL lies, the Habs MUST again fight fire with fire. It's time to hire 6 Hanson brothers and cause a HUGE problem in the NHL next year. From the get go, just like in the 70's drop all the gloves in the first 5 minutes go to WAR, forget hockey, give the Americans what they want, the WWHF, blood everywhere, two sent to hospital, Players go into the crowd, coaches on the ice too.
and yes players getting even with the stupid refs by smashing them also.
Then we can have a hockey game and the next headlines will read " greatest game ever played" Bettman will have an orgazim.
If, as you state, you watched the teams of the 70's, you will also notice that there is a huge, huge difference between what happened then and what's happening now. They were intimidating by their physical play and their fighting back then. Today, due to the fact that the refs don't call anything and that Shanahan has his hands tied by the governors, the rats have taken over and players revert to cheap shots and attempts to injure, a situation made dangerously worse due to the instigator rule the way it is.

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04-17-2012, 08:32 AM
  #94
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Elbows ans sticks to the heads are awsome too !!! Aren't they ?


You'll have more of that with fighting out of the game.

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04-17-2012, 08:37 AM
  #95
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There are always going to be fads. The Devils played the trap. The Ducks were tough. The Red Wings played skill and puck possession. Teams went with what seemed to be the flow. The Bruins were cheap and nasty. The whole league atm is cheap and nasty. Then somebody will win by being fast and skilled again. Or whatever. It will flip back. Who knows how long it will take.

I don't think there's much motivation out there for anybody to try to impose a correction on it. The league is getting lots of attention and great ratings. The players don't seem to care - the PA never makes a peep about the risks to the players, so by default they must be ok with it all. The fans (majority of, anyway) are loving it. So it'll just have to run its course. Better job opportunities and salaries for bigger/tougher players again for a while. Probably some nasty injuries. Complaints about officiating or discipline won't really be heard if the overall entertainment value ratings are so high.

And then, some team of speedsters and snipers will skate circles around the Big Bad Bruins du jour, and the cycle will drift back in another direction, and everybody will be decrying the violence again, etc.

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04-17-2012, 08:40 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Hear we go again.
a long time ago I watched the NHL go down a very bad path.
I watched the broad street bullies just break every rule for 2-3 years.
They won cups because they they took the NHL by surprise and all other teams were not built to combat these guys. UNTIL, the Habs decided to fight fire with fire.
Habs ended the Flyers streak in 4 games. Bouchard, Lapoint, Savard and Robinson and more just dropped the gloves in the first 5 minutes and took care of business. That quickly ended the FLYERS and Habs won in 4 and went on to win the CUP.
I am seeing that same ugly stuff again this year. The NHL has rules and it tells it's 30 teams that the NHL is all about hockey and the ruff stuff will not be tolerated all year and the same in the playoffs.
WELL, the proof is back again. In the playoffs the rules are waved and it's a WAR. Enough with the NHL lies, the Habs MUST again fight fire with fire. It's time to hire 6 Hanson brothers and cause a HUGE problem in the NHL next year. From the get go, just like in the 70's drop all the gloves in the first 5 minutes go to WAR, forget hockey, give the Americans what they want, the WWHF, blood everywhere, two sent to hospital, Players go into the crowd, coaches on the ice too.
and yes players getting even with the stupid refs by smashing them also.
Then we can have a hockey game and the next headlines will read " greatest game ever played" Bettman will have an orgazim.
No one told the Habs to get rid of their tough players. No one told them to hire a bunch of smurfs. No one said it was a new era where hockey should be played without toughness.

While all the other teams in our division were toughing up this summer and the past few years, we went in the totally opposite direction.

The league is not blame here, the Montreal Canadiens Organization is.

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04-17-2012, 08:42 AM
  #97
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In 93 we had team toughness however you wanted it. Do I really have to list all the players from that 93 team that made it such a balanced club? All you came up with was Odelein?
You could try. Todd Ewen played 1 game in the playoffs - a nonfactor. The Habs had some decent size in guys like Leclair but the '93 version was a precursor to today's Habs - which seems to do quite well against the biggest, baddest team in the NHL, the Bruins.

There seems to be many testosterone-addled teenagers here that gravitate to goonery for its encapsulation of irrational jingoism, probably because they are cognitively incapable of appreciating the finer points of the game.

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04-17-2012, 08:43 AM
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While there are more people hitting each other, I still only see the skill coming through to score goals. Otherwise it's actually a very boring game. When you need a goal, you can't crash and bang your way past lundqvist. Ottawa was hitting hard last night but their chances weren't very good/they couldn't finish the few they had.

Hockey players are all pretty tough. The fact that hitting has increased doesn't mean the Habs can't hit (in fact it was a hit parade at the end of the season). Tough guys that can score - invaluable. But you have to interperse them with playmakers and guys who can convert and break a game.

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04-17-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
There are always going to be fads. The Devils played the trap. The Ducks were tough. The Red Wings played skill and puck possession. Teams went with what seemed to be the flow. The Bruins were cheap and nasty. The whole league atm is cheap and nasty. Then somebody will win by being fast and skilled again. Or whatever. It will flip back. Who knows how long it will take.

I don't think there's much motivation out there for anybody to try to impose a correction on it. The league is getting lots of attention and great ratings. The players don't seem to care - the PA never makes a peep about the risks to the players, so by default they must be ok with it all. The fans (majority of, anyway) are loving it. So it'll just have to run its course. Better job opportunities and salaries for bigger/tougher players again for a while. Probably some nasty injuries. Complaints about officiating or discipline won't really be heard if the overall entertainment value ratings are so high.

And then, some team of speedsters and snipers will skate circles around the Big Bad Bruins du jour, and the cycle will drift back in another direction, and everybody will be decrying the violence again, etc.
Toughness is not new to this sport. I'm not saying that our main asset should be "cheap and nasty" but it is always good to have some of it during the playoffs.

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04-17-2012, 08:49 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by ForeverAlone View Post
I'm not talking about the number of goals, but Erik Cole is not supposed to be your go to guy. If Erik Cole heads into next season with the expectations of scoring 30-35, our top 6 forwards needs to be revised. If we wanna be a top team in the NHL, we need to give our players the roles they're suited for and not expect much more than what they can give us year in/year out.

Put Erik Cole in Philly or Chicago, he wouldn't have played as much because they're deep in their top 6.


And the bottom line is that were a one line team, and it proves my point.
Umm, if he put up goals like that then yes he would be on the first line or would deserve to be. Despite what JM said, he WAS actually supposed to be one of the go to guys. There's another one in Pacioretty (all w DD of course). Yes we need more secondary scoring, but give Pleks a decent winger (oh Ak, why....why!!!) and watch those numbers increase. Erik Cole had an awesome year, I don't understand how that proves that we have a bad team. The fact that other people had terrible years proves we were a bad team. Add more piece like Erik Cole and you've got a winner. Pretty sure in Cole was on a second line on any of those teams, he'd get around the same icetime since he would either be in their top 6 or not at all.

BTW Erik Cole is a goal scorer. That's always been his role.

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