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Red Wings Prospects Tracker - Part III - Revenge of the Prospects

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Old
04-15-2012, 11:54 AM
  #51
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Hey, that's your mistake Jarnkrok's weight/strength may affect him in that it will take him a little longer to be NHL ready than if he were a bit bigger, but given his abilities, it's not going to hold him back in the long run.

Admittedly, I don't know what happened in the play where he separated his shoulder last year. Maybe he did get pushed around then, but he's already bigger and stronger since then, with even more room to grow. But his knee injury this year was after a guy went knee-to-knee on him, wasn't it? That kind of injury is irrespective of size. What other injuries has he had?
It was a boarding.

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04-15-2012, 11:55 AM
  #52
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It was a boarding.
Ah, thanks.

Yeah, count me in the crowd who's not worried about his injuries or future health in the NHL.

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04-15-2012, 04:13 PM
  #53
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Jarnkrok with 2 assists today

Brynas lost in overtime though so didn't get the sweep

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04-15-2012, 04:24 PM
  #54
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Calle was lights out today. Silfverberg had a penalty shot in OT for the hattrick and clincher, and shot it in the post. Then shot another one in the post from close range right afterwards.. Higher powers wanted this series to go 5.

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04-16-2012, 02:23 AM
  #55
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Yeah, my main point there was that if he were 6'4 with his hands and skating, he'd be a top 3 prospect and would probably have a very long NHL career ahead of him. Since he's 5'10 or so, the skating is really going to limit him.

Pretty much all of the guys in the NHL that are 5'10 or smaller have better than average wheels, so I'd peg Hudler as his ceiling. That's not the end of the world, but it's not a very high ceiling and causes me to drop him in my rankings. Hudler definitely has the flintstone feet thing going as well.


I haven't seen video of all his injuries, but it's a big red flag to me when a guy who was drafted at 156 lbs and is described by scouts as "rail-thin" (http://www.redwingscentral.com/prosp...alle-jarnkrok/) ends up missing time every year with multiple injuries. If he can't hold up physically in the SEL, how is he going to hold up with guys like Jackman and Weber and Bieksa beating the hell out of him on every shift?

As I said, if it were based on speed and skill alone he'd be top 3. But it's not - it's also based on his probability to make it and last in the NHL and reach his potential, and until he can put a single healthy season together at any level, I'm going to be skeptical about him. Is it bad luck, or is it because he doesn't have the strength to hold up without getting injured?
The injury that kept him out for a few games prior the playoffs was an ugly knee on knee hit by J Ericssons brother.....

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04-16-2012, 04:44 AM
  #56
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04-16-2012, 07:31 AM
  #57
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Yeah, my main point there was that if he were 6'4 with his hands and skating, he'd be a top 3 prospect and would probably have a very long NHL career ahead of him. Since he's 5'10 or so, the skating is really going to limit him.

Pretty much all of the guys in the NHL that are 5'10 or smaller have better than average wheels, so I'd peg Hudler as his ceiling. That's not the end of the world, but it's not a very high ceiling and causes me to drop him in my rankings. Hudler definitely has the flintstone feet thing going as well.
Even though Pulkkinen would be a total copy of Hudler, he is still a right-shooting Hudler. That creates a totally different dimension in a roster full of only lefties.

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04-16-2012, 10:19 AM
  #58
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Even though Pulkkinen would be a total copy of Hudler, he is still a right-shooting Hudler. That creates a totally different dimension in a roster full of only lefties.
And he'll actually shoot the puck. He also has a better shot.

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04-16-2012, 03:08 PM
  #59
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And he'll actually shoot the puck. He also has a better shot.
But he has shown nowhere near the same offensive abilities on lower levels. I guess we will see when he comes over but I think a lot of you guys are forgetting what a scorer Hudler was at lower levels. By the way Pulkkinen shoots about as often as Hudler, he is a pass first player as much as Hudler is. His shot gets more praise but he also struggles to use it as often as he should.

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04-16-2012, 07:26 PM
  #60
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Has anyone actually watched Tatar play a handful of games?

I finally got to catch a Griffins game yesterday when they were in Hamilton, and even though he had no points he was dangerous every single shift. With a bit of luck he could of had 3 or 4 points. I guess what i'm asking anyone who has saw him is if he brings this type of play game in game out. Could linemates play a role in his point totals this year?

Also, why would Smith not be playing on the PP? I understand they had nothing really to play for but PP minutes aren't exactaly taxing either.

Andersson was good too, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to at least take Emmerton's spot next season.

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04-16-2012, 07:43 PM
  #61
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Has anyone actually watched Tatar play a handful of games?

I finally got to catch a Griffins game yesterday when they were in Hamilton, and even though he had no points he was dangerous every single shift. With a bit of luck he could of had 3 or 4 points. I guess what i'm asking anyone who has saw him is if he brings this type of play game in game out. Could linemates play a role in his point totals this year?

Also, why would Smith not be playing on the PP? I understand they had nothing really to play for but PP minutes aren't exactaly taxing either.

Andersson was good too, I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to at least take Emmerton's spot next season.
Tatar had an assist.
and I think that his line mates may have something to do with it, but for the most part I think that it is him working a lot harder on the defensive side of his game. In the beginning of the year he said he wanted to improve in that aspect of his game this year and he really has. come next year he could be a really good 3rd line player on the wing with Helm and Nyquist . all though I don't see that happening. if that did happen, the 3rd line could see each player pushing 40 points or more and have strong D play I believe.

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04-16-2012, 11:11 PM
  #62
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But he has shown nowhere near the same offensive abilities on lower levels. I guess we will see when he comes over but I think a lot of you guys are forgetting what a scorer Hudler was at lower levels. By the way Pulkkinen shoots about as often as Hudler, he is a pass first player as much as Hudler is. His shot gets more praise but he also struggles to use it as often as he should.
I'd say Pulkkinen's offensive output on lower levels is the least of his problems. And based on the World Juniors the last part is false.

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04-17-2012, 12:28 AM
  #63
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I'd say Pulkkinen's offensive output on lower levels is the least of his problems. And based on the World Juniors the last part is false.
Didn't he get passed over for tournament honors even though he was t-3rd in goals and t-4th in points? And wasn't that because the points he got were largely add-ons in a blowout win against a lousy team?

Against Canada - 0 points in 2 games. Against USA - 1 secondary assist. Against Sweden? 0 points.

Against awful Denmark, by far the worst team in the tournament? 4 goals and 1 assist - specifically, goals 7, 8, 9, and 10 in a 10-1 win. Against all the other teams in the tournament? 2 goals and 3 assists in 6 games.

And didn't his regular season production drop from 18g/36a/54p last year to 16g/21a/37p this year? These are all true statements, aren't they?

I'd say lack of production is still a very real problem for him, and the sharp decline in production in the regular season is a huge problem. If his hands are really that good, he should be near the top of the Finnish scoring leaderboard.

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04-17-2012, 01:30 AM
  #64
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I agree about his production, he's one of those players where if he isn't producing he is completely useless.

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04-17-2012, 02:05 AM
  #65
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Didn't he get passed over for tournament honors even though he was t-3rd in goals and t-4th in points? And wasn't that because the points he got were largely add-ons in a blowout win against a lousy team?

Against Canada - 0 points in 2 games. Against USA - 1 secondary assist. Against Sweden? 0 points.

Against awful Denmark, by far the worst team in the tournament? 4 goals and 1 assist - specifically, goals 7, 8, 9, and 10 in a 10-1 win. Against all the other teams in the tournament? 2 goals and 3 assists in 6 games.

And didn't his regular season production drop from 18g/36a/54p last year to 16g/21a/37p this year? These are all true statements, aren't they?

I'd say lack of production is still a very real problem for him, and the sharp decline in production in the regular season is a huge problem. If his hands are really that good, he should be near the top of the Finnish scoring leaderboard.
Yeah, well my point was that if he has a ppg season + another steady year, both as a junior in a men's league, his production isn't the problem. If the rest of his game was up to par with his production he would've been one of the best NHL prospects playing in Europe.

Or you can spin it the other way and say that he needs to produce more to make up for the rest of his game. Both angles would be correct.

I think the idea of him becoming a more complete player is more important than being so good offensively that he can outweight be a mediocre skater and bad defensively.

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04-17-2012, 08:06 AM
  #66
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I just come to think of it...

The wings hade the 29th pick in the 2009 draft, traded down to 32nd overall (got an extra 3rd rounder). Anyways... Silfverberg got picked 39th that year after a strong 30gp 14G 24A 38pts season in Brynäs J-20... and he is now the best player in the SEL and in it's playoffs... can't understand what they were thinking

Even Ryan O'Reilly of the avs got picks later than Ferraro..

What were they thinking

The wings drafting should get some **** as well and not just praise.

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04-17-2012, 08:23 AM
  #67
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Silfverberg was passed over 31 times, it wasn't just the Wings. And Ferraro was fairly well regarded when the Wings picked him.

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04-17-2012, 08:51 AM
  #68
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Silfverberg was passed over 31 times, it wasn't just the Wings. And Ferraro was fairly well regarded when the Wings picked him.
i was able to talk to some guys who were a bit deeper into scouting back at his draft and there were concerns about silfverberg's offensive abilities. he's a pretty wellrounded player, but at least some thought he might be too average in everything to become useful.
his development the past two seasons is impressive.

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04-17-2012, 09:01 AM
  #69
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Imagine if we picked Silfverberg instead of Ferraro and Markström instead of McCollum...

Would look SO much better

Hindsight...............

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04-17-2012, 09:55 AM
  #70
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Imagine if we picked Silfverberg instead of Ferraro and Markström instead of McCollum...

Would look SO much better

Hindsight...............
Imagine if 29 teams didn't pass over Datsyuk 6 times or Zetterberg 7 times or Hall of Famer Lidstrom 3 times.

You win some, you lose some. Get over it.

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04-17-2012, 10:57 AM
  #71
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i was able to talk to some guys who were a bit deeper into scouting back at his draft and there were concerns about silfverberg's offensive abilities. he's a pretty wellrounded player, but at least some thought he might be too average in everything to become useful.
his development the past two seasons is impressive.
I think this is overlooked so often when we try to go back and say we should have picked this guy over that guy. Unless they're coming out of left field (like Datsyuk), the scouts have seen most of these guys, they have an idea of what they can do, but there is still a lot of guess work involved, and just blind chance. Sometimes, like Silfverberg, a guy surprises. Other times, like Ferraro, things come up a bit short or different than expected.

With that said, I don't think we can complain about Ferraro too much. He got hit by constant injuries, which couldn't have done much good for his development, but he's looking like a future NHLer again in GR. Granted, not the second line goal scoring wing we may have hoped for, but still an NHLer. If he becomes an every day player, that's still a pretty good turn out and there is still value in that.

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04-17-2012, 11:46 AM
  #72
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I think this is overlooked so often when we try to go back and say we should have picked this guy over that guy. Unless they're coming out of left field (like Datsyuk), the scouts have seen most of these guys, they have an idea of what they can do, but there is still a lot of guess work involved, and just blind chance. Sometimes, like Silfverberg, a guy surprises. Other times, like Ferraro, things come up a bit short or different than expected.

With that said, I don't think we can complain about Ferraro too much. He got hit by constant injuries, which couldn't have done much good for his development, but he's looking like a future NHLer again in GR. Granted, not the second line goal scoring wing we may have hoped for, but still an NHLer. If he becomes an every day player, that's still a pretty good turn out and there is still value in that.
Yep the wings got a guy who will contribute on the third line and possibly play on the second I still think from watching him. He could end up similar to Cleary, can play up, can PK, can play on the lower lines. He has a very versatile skill set which is good. He doesnt look to be that sniper we all hoped for, but in the second round you cant complain about getting a solid NHLer. He had a very solid rookie pro season and was the best rookie after Nyquist, Ferraro never got linemates really though either. He hits, pks and has some offensive touch when he would get bumped onto the top lines he didnt miss a beat. Similar production to Helms rookie year as well

The guy I wish woulda got drafted there was Kyle Clifford

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04-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #73
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Silfverberg was passed over 31 times, it wasn't just the Wings. And Ferraro was fairly well regarded when the Wings picked him.
Yeah but I wonder where he would've been drafted if Ray Ferraro wasn't his father.

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04-17-2012, 01:56 PM
  #74
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Yeah but I wonder where he would've been drafted if Ray Ferraro wasn't his father.
37 goals in his draft year with elite speed? If his name was Joe Shmoe he would've been drafted right about where he was.

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04-17-2012, 03:02 PM
  #75
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Yeah, well my point was that if he has a ppg season + another steady year, both as a junior in a men's league, his production isn't the problem. If the rest of his game was up to par with his production he would've been one of the best NHL prospects playing in Europe.

Or you can spin it the other way and say that he needs to produce more to make up for the rest of his game. Both angles would be correct.

I think the idea of him becoming a more complete player is more important than being so good offensively that he can outweight be a mediocre skater and bad defensively.
I think you were missing my point was that Hudler was very explosive offensively and continued on a upward trajectory without taking steps back like Pulkkinen. It wasn't his production just pointing out I think he is a little over-hyped offensively. I see him as a pass first player with a terrific shot. He does struggle to use it, and quite frankly his skating is flat out bad. I realize he can keep developing but comparing him to Hudler, I just don't buy right now. He is a boom or bust player and there are things to like. But to bag on Hudler's skills while praising a player that at best remains a long-shot to accomplish many of the things that Jiri Hudler has accomplished was what I was taking umbrage with.

He is talented but I will be curious to see how he does in Grand Rapids when he comes over. He is not going straight on the team like Jarnkrok when he comes over, I just don't see that happening. Also, keep in mind Hudler was a point per game player in the minors, was a similar point per game player in Russia and Czech leagues and has now three times gone over 50 points in the NHL. I know everyone around the Wings hates him but he remains actually a pretty lofty comparison for a prospect to achieve especially one with huge question marks about how his game will transition to North America.

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