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The what to do with the pick thread - part II

View Poll Results: What should the Oilers do with their 1st overall?
Draft Yakupov, the consensus number 1 327 91.60%
Trade down in the draft 17 4.76%
Trade the pick for an established NHLer 13 3.64%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-17-2012, 01:35 AM
  #676
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
IMO, a #1 winger is our teams biggest need. Pleks, Desharnais, and Eller is a pretty solid trio down the middle. I don't like Grigs because he's a center, I like him because I think he's likely BPA at #3 (assuming Yak and Murray are gone), but if Murray was there, I'd probably still take Grigs too as we need alot more help up front than we do on the blueline.

Point is, it's about making the best pick for your team. While Yakupov is the BPA, I do think Murray is worth considering for the Oil...
We have every right to be excited about Yakupov. Few of us expected we'd get a chance to take him, and we're pleased that we can. He's a dynamic talent and almost single handedly gives us two offensive lines, which was a huge problem for us last season.

That isn't to say we don't like Murray. Murray is fantastic. I am still hoping that Tambellini can pull off a deal(s?) for a pick high enough to get him without losing Yakupov, Hall, Ebs, RNH, Smid or Petry. But as good as he is, he isn't good enough for us to pass up Yakupov for anything less than an incredible offer. So the idea has little traction around here, as one of our more lopsided polls ever above demonstrates.

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04-17-2012, 01:41 AM
  #677
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There are some sensible fans in hf if you look at the draft Yakupov results at least 40 names are none Oiler fans the other ones voting for us to trade the pick are jelly or do not know the concept of bpa.

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04-17-2012, 01:43 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
IMO, a #1 winger is our teams biggest need. Pleks, Desharnais, and Eller is a pretty solid trio down the middle. I don't like Grigs because he's a center, I like him because I think he's likely BPA at #3 (assuming Yak and Murray are gone), but if Murray was there, I'd probably still take Grigs too as we need alot more help up front than we do on the blueline.

Point is, it's about making the best pick for your team. While Yakupov is the BPA, I do think Murray is worth considering for the Oil...
Annnnnd there it is, thats what i was getting at earlier when i said there was no reason for a habs fan to be in here trying to "give us another option" with the #1 pick, unless they were trying to talk us out of wanting Nail (reason being, you want him as much as any other team)!!

Look at the poll and tell me what you think Oiler fans want Tambo to do with the pick. Just like you said you would take Grigorenko at 3 because he's BPA, we will take Yakupov at 1 for the same reason. Thanks for making my point for me.


Last edited by TimeForAnOilChange: 04-17-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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04-17-2012, 02:02 AM
  #679
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I doubt they would be as defensive as HFOil is being.

I'm aware that Yakupov is BPA, but I do agree with the sentiment that there comes a time when you bypass BPA and draft need. Is now that time for us? Not our call, and I'm willing to live with whatever the Oilers decide. The guys making that call are significantly more experienced than any of us are, and would know better than any of us what the best choice is.
"DOAN, DOAN, DOAN!" /chant from 1995 draft. The Oilers select...Steve Kelly. Yea, that happened. Just sayin'.

And I totally disagree with going need, especially this high in a draft. Always BPA or you end up kicking yourself down the road. Doesn't matter what your current lineup looks like. Things change quickly in this league. You want to address a need? Do it through free agency or trade.

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04-17-2012, 02:04 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by TimeForAnOilChange View Post
Annnnnd there it is, thats what i was getting at earlier when i said there was no reason for a habs fan to be in here trying to "give us another option" with the #1 pick, unless they were trying to talk us out of wanting Nail (reason being, you want him as much as any other team)!!

Look at the poll and tell me what you think Oiler fans want Tambo to do with the pick. Just like you said you would take Grigorenko at 3 because he's BPA, we will take Yakupov at 1 for the same reason.
Funny how we're silly for wanting the BPA over team need huh?

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04-17-2012, 02:05 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by JJTopper View Post
"DOAN, DOAN, DOAN!" /chant from 1995 draft. The Oilers select...Steve Kelly. Yea, that happened. Just sayin'.

And I totally disagree with going need, especially this high in a draft. Always BPA or you end up kicking yourself down the road. Doesn't matter what your current lineup looks like. Things change quickly in this league. You want to address a need? Do it through free agency or trade.
Yeah pretty much. Looking back at Paajarvi's draft year, we took him because it was an area of need.

Now he probably was the BPA, but I think we would've take him regardless.

But looking back on it, offensive forwards aren't a need anymore, we really could've benefitted from taking Ryan Ellis instead of Paajarvi.

But that's how quickly things can change in a few years -- from "we have no one to play with Hemsky!" to "lol, Hemsky is like our 5th best forward".

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04-17-2012, 02:07 AM
  #682
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Yeah pretty much. Looking back at Paajarvi's draft year, we took him because it was an area of need.

Now he probably was the BPA, but I think we would've take him regardless.

But looking back on it, offensive forwards aren't a need anymore, we really could've benefitted from taking Ryan Ellis instead of Paajarvi.

But that's how quickly things can change in a few years -- from "we have no one to play with Hemsky!" to "lol, Hemsky is like our 5th best forward".
I think the Oilers counted their lucky stars that Paajarvi was there at 10th. He was BPA at that spot for sure. I never thought that that was a pick for need.

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04-17-2012, 02:13 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by JJTopper View Post
"DOAN, DOAN, DOAN!" /chant from 1995 draft. The Oilers select...Steve Kelly. Yea, that happened. Just sayin'.

And I totally disagree with going need, especially this high in a draft. Always BPA or you end up kicking yourself down the road. Doesn't matter what your current lineup looks like. Things change quickly in this league. You want to address a need? Do it through free agency or trade.
I think the 1995 draft was the most upset I've been as an Oiler fan. Our whole section at the Coliseum went crazy when they called Steve Kellys name.

Not calling Nails's name would be another 17 year piss off.

If Tambo doesn't dump Nik Khabi. it won't matter what else he does we'll still be drafting early next year. Nik is just terrible.

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04-17-2012, 02:15 AM
  #684
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Funny how we're silly for wanting the BPA over team need huh?
Yeah, its pretty obvious when another fan comes in here and tries to make a case for us picking someone other than Nail what their ulterior motive is, especially when their team is picking 2 spots behind us...if it was somebody that was picking mid round or later it wouldnt p*** me off so much, but dont come in here and try to pull that s***, its blatantly obvious who we (for the most part) want, or at least it should be blatantly obvious. Must take us for idiots or something.

Everybody on the planet knows who the BPA is this year, AINEFC!!!

I dont even go on the trade board nowadays, theres no point, its all the same s*** on there, it was retarded the day of the lotto, nearly every trade proposal thread included our pick (gee, i wonder why?).

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04-17-2012, 02:51 AM
  #685
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couple of quotes that i copied and pasted from hogtownhabsfan (not sure how to put them in quotes when it comes from another thread)...

Edmonton falling in love with Murray would only be a good thing from a habs perspective...

What about Beaulieu and the #3 for Yakupov?

Edmonton can trade down and still get Murray/Dumba. We'd be a great partner for them. Diaz and Murray(#3) for Yakupov? Hell to the yess.

I for one will be kind of sour if we miss out on Yak and Grigs. if those 2 go 1-2, Murray is the BPA, so I'd look to either trade with Edmonton for Yakupov, or look to trade down and get one of Gal or Forsberg.

I don't think so, people have to take contract into consideration. Yakupov is going to be a 30 goal scorer from day 1 and will be getting paid minimal salary and has team control for a while. To be honest, I'd just keep him if he win the lottery...

He was 18 this past year, but I'd definitely try and move up for him to. He's just a sure bet to be a 40 goal type in the NHL, and I love his tenacious style. I really, really like Tinordi though, so I wouldn't move him, ideally Weber, but if I have to I'd move maybe Ellis or Beaulieu.

All posts from this so called "non troll" on other boards....hmmmm, still think he isnt trying to make a case for us to take Murray in the hopes that Yakupov might fall to them? Yeah, thats what i thought, nice try though bud.

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04-17-2012, 03:19 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post


This is the only board where the posters actually think they are the ones making the pick. Geez...

And I don't really care who you pick, I have my heart set on Grigorenko anyway, and I really don't see Columbus taking him. You guys are freaking defensive, suggesting anyone but Nail at #1 and it's blasphemy...
You have your heart set on Grigs because you have no chance at Yakupov. Oilers fans had there hearts set on Murray untill we won the lottery.

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04-17-2012, 03:23 AM
  #687
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I think the Oilers counted their lucky stars that Paajarvi was there at 10th. He was BPA at that spot for sure. I never thought that that was a pick for need.
This ^^

Also, I really love your avatar.

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04-17-2012, 04:33 AM
  #688
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I wonder if Lowe picked Murray for Team Canada not for his own scouting benefit with the Oilers but as a favour to Scott Howson.

Howson was Lowe's Assistant GM for 5 years before being hired by Columbus and from all indications, they still have a great relationship. Looking at the position Howson is in, he is probably trying to figure out who he likes most between Murray, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, and Forsberg. Of those four, one of Murray and Grigorenko seem to be the most likely picked at #2. With Grigorenko's reported work ethic issues and the Russian Factor, Howson probably hopes Murray will emerge as the BPA at #2.

He'll get first hand reports on Murray and his abilities (something Lowe is pretty good at assessing in defensemen) and he'll get a chance to see how Murray looks playing among elite players. If he looks completely overwhelmed, maybe the Blue Jackets pass. If he holds his own, Howson may be more comfortable picking him.

We know that GMs of these World Championship teams sometimes do favours for other teams (Messier as GM in 2010 picked Eberle before he played in the NHL as a favour to Lowe) so it makes some sense. It would also be doing Howson a solid, since with the drop of a few lottery balls, the Oilers snatched the near-sure-thing franchise player from Columbus, and Howson's job is very much on the line.

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04-17-2012, 04:50 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post
I wonder if Lowe picked Murray for Team Canada not for his own scouting benefit with the Oilers but as a favour to Scott Howson.

Howson was Lowe's Assistant GM for 5 years before being hired by Columbus and from all indications, they still have a great relationship. Looking at the position Howson is in, he is probably trying to figure out who he likes most between Murray, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, and Forsberg. Of those four, one of Murray and Grigorenko seem to be the most likely picked at #2. With Grigorenko's reported work ethic issues and the Russian Factor, Howson probably hopes Murray will emerge as the BPA at #2.

He'll get first hand reports on Murray and his abilities (something Lowe is pretty good at assessing in defensemen) and he'll get a chance to see how Murray looks playing among elite players. If he looks completely overwhelmed, maybe the Blue Jackets pass. If he holds his own, Howson may be more comfortable picking him.

We know that GMs of these World Championship teams sometimes do favours for other teams (Messier as GM in 2010 picked Eberle before he played in the NHL as a favour to Lowe) so it makes some sense. It would also be doing Howson a solid, since with the drop of a few lottery balls, the Oilers snatched the near-sure-thing franchise player from Columbus, and Howson's job is very much on the line.
This could well be the case.

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04-17-2012, 06:22 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by ZugNugget View Post
I wonder if Lowe picked Murray for Team Canada not for his own scouting benefit with the Oilers but as a favour to Scott Howson.

Howson was Lowe's Assistant GM for 5 years before being hired by Columbus and from all indications, they still have a great relationship. Looking at the position Howson is in, he is probably trying to figure out who he likes most between Murray, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, and Forsberg. Of those four, one of Murray and Grigorenko seem to be the most likely picked at #2. With Grigorenko's reported work ethic issues and the Russian Factor, Howson probably hopes Murray will emerge as the BPA at #2.

He'll get first hand reports on Murray and his abilities (something Lowe is pretty good at assessing in defensemen) and he'll get a chance to see how Murray looks playing among elite players. If he looks completely overwhelmed, maybe the Blue Jackets pass. If he holds his own, Howson may be more comfortable picking him.

We know that GMs of these World Championship teams sometimes do favours for other teams (Messier as GM in 2010 picked Eberle before he played in the NHL as a favour to Lowe) so it makes some sense. It would also be doing Howson a solid, since with the drop of a few lottery balls, the Oilers snatched the near-sure-thing franchise player from Columbus, and Howson's job is very much on the line.
Not only that, but it raises Murray's profile and makes it an easier sell to his fanbase (or ours if you're the conspiracy type). "The kid played at the worlds before being draft...he's a stud!" kinda thing.

I really can't see CBJ taking Grigorenko at #2. He's too much of a risk in that market IMO. They're probably trying to decide between Murray, Galchenyuk and Forsberg. With central scouting ranking Murray #2 and Lowe adding him to the Worlds, he probably has the edge at this point. But I'm just speculating..

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04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
  #691
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You guys need to draft Yak, don't trade that pick. I will say this though, it's very likely that you will need to trade one of Yakupov, Hall, RNH, or Eberle sometime in the next 3 years or so. That's not necessarily a bad thing because you could probably nab one hell of a defenseman for one of those guys. It would be kind of cool if they all took less money to stay in EDM, but it's unlikely. They will all require a minimum of 6mil, it's very tricky to have four 6mil+ forwards on your roster and still maintain depth elsewhere these days.

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04-17-2012, 10:31 AM
  #692
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You guys need to draft Yak, don't trade that pick. I will say this though, it's very likely that you will need to trade
I stopped here.

It isn't likely at all.

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04-17-2012, 11:00 AM
  #693
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I stopped here.

It isn't likely at all.

Gotta admit as well, he is one of the few canucks poster that actually states his opinion without a backhanded bash on the oilers. He also supported his thoughts which I give him credit for and is right that if we do give up one of the kids, we could get one hell of s defenceman back. Not saying it will happen but a reasonable post indded

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04-17-2012, 11:05 AM
  #694
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I stopped here.

It isn't likely at all.
^ This...give your head a shake people. We have 20 mill in cap space as is right now, and yes we can afford 24 mil for 4 ELITE forwards. Penguins anyone?

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04-17-2012, 11:07 AM
  #695
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Gotta admit as well, he is one of the few canucks poster that actually states his opinion without a backhanded bash on the oilers. He also supported his thoughts which I give him credit for and is right that if we do give up one of the kids, we could get one hell of s defenceman back. Not saying it will happen but a reasonable post indded
Not really. To suggest the Oilers will "have to trade" one of their elite talented core young players because of contract or need is just stupid. It's as stupid as trading the 1st overall pick for need/contract dump.

First off, if these guys are playing well enough to deserve to be paid, that's not a bad thing, at all. Second, if need to bolster the team, you do it with future picks and prospect, not your core of elite talent, The same way the Penguins didn't have to trade one of Staal or Malkin to get the team over the top.

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04-17-2012, 11:09 AM
  #696
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^ This...give your head a shake people. We have 20 mill in cap space as is right now, and yes we can afford 24 mil for 4 ELITE forwards. Penguins anyone?
To me, it's not even about "can", it's about will.

You don't jettison Elite talent because it's "expensive", otherwise you're just asking to fail.

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04-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #697
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So im still confused why murray was asked to play at the worlds..surely there mustve been a more experienced canadian defenceman somewhere..
Ive developed a hate for mr.gm tambi ever since he said that we're in a position now to address needs over best player available..
Im so freakin scared with that yahoo running the show, don't trust him one bit..
As for Lowe, I like him more, but he tends to.over fall in love with defencemen just cuz he was one..
Bob Nicholson was on a local radio station (Fan 590) and was asked about Murray to the WC. He said that they view the WC as a key tool for identifying future talent. He mentioned Toews as an example of a guy who they gave a real look at and who played well enough to put him on the radar for the Olympic team.

Murray is viewed as being one of Canada's up and comers. So they wanted to possibly give him a chance in a few pre-tournament games. But as of that conversation it had not even been confirmed that he would participate.

It sounds like this is a group decision and is not something Lowe would have necessarily even initiated.

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04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #698
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I doubt they would be as defensive as HFOil is being.

I'm aware that Yakupov is BPA, but I do agree with the sentiment that there comes a time when you bypass BPA and draft need. Is now that time for us? Not our call, and I'm willing to live with whatever the Oilers decide. The guys making that call are significantly more experienced than any of us are, and would know better than any of us what the best choice is.
In 2008-2009 the Oilers defense consisted of Sheldon Souray playing some of the best hockey of his career, Lubomir Visnovsky, Tom Gilbert with 45pts, Denis Grebeshkov looking like a very good young dman, Steve Staios and Ladi Smid. At that time would you have said that the Oilers would soon be in need of a guy who can generate offense form the back end. They had also had Pronger and Joni Pitkanen in recent years.

Positional need can vary quite a bit in a short period of time. Top talent is always useful. When you're picking #1 you pick the best player available and then fill in around what you have.

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04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #699
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You guys need to draft Yak, don't trade that pick. I will say this though, it's very likely that you will need to trade one of Yakupov, Hall, RNH, or Eberle sometime in the next 3 years or so. That's not necessarily a bad thing because you could probably nab one hell of a defenseman for one of those guys. It would be kind of cool if they all took less money to stay in EDM, but it's unlikely. They will all require a minimum of 6mil, it's very tricky to have four 6mil+ forwards on your roster and still maintain depth elsewhere these days.
I doubt all four will command that kind of money (if they do, that's a nice problem to have), but even if they do, i can't see why it wouldn't be workable. The Caps have $24M of their cap committed to three forwards. The Rangers have $29M committed to four forwards. The Pens have $21.4M tied down in three forwards, the Canucks have $21M for four (and I bet they wish it was more LOL). Hawks also have $21M for four.

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04-17-2012, 11:51 AM
  #700
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In 2008-2009 the Oilers defense consisted of Sheldon Souray playing some of the best hockey of his career, Lubomir Visnovsky, Tom Gilbert with 45pts, Denis Grebeshkov looking like a very good young dman, Steve Staios and Ladi Smid. At that time would you have said that the Oilers would soon be in need of a guy who can generate offense form the back end. They had also had Pronger and Joni Pitkanen in recent years.

Positional need can vary quite a bit in a short period of time. Top talent is always useful. When you're picking #1 you pick the best player available and then fill in around what you have.
Good post. You build a team around elite talent not some template.

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