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2011-2012 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread II

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Old
04-16-2012, 11:54 PM
  #251
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wellllll, Spokane wins, Holland and Tri City are headin to game 7.

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Originally Posted by Habsoil View Post
I have a question regarding tinordi.

Can the kid fight? I watched a fight of his on youtube but dont really tell the story.

Can he fight? Do he fight much?
Do he protect his team mates/goalie from cheap shots?
Any info is appreciated.
He aint the best fighter, but hopefully he doesn't have to be, if he can turn out to be a reliable minute munching shut down physical defenseman then fine. Imagine a bigger, stronger, better defensive Alexei Emelin.

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04-17-2012, 12:02 AM
  #252
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He aint the best fighter, but hopefully he doesn't have to be, if he can turn out to be a reliable minute munching shut down physical defenseman then fine. Imagine a bigger, stronger, better defensive Alexei Emelin.
I think Emelin has some offensive potential that he's yet to show in North America. I wouldn't say he's in the same mould as Tinordi.

I think Tinordi is probably more physical, more skilled and better defensively than Hal Gill at the same age, but they play a similar defensive game. I just think Tinordi's skill level will let him be more than what Gill was for the majority of his career. Of course, I'm talking best case scenario.

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04-17-2012, 12:24 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Mars0987 View Post
wellllll, Spokane wins, Holland and Tri City are headin to game 7.



He aint the best fighter, but hopefully he doesn't have to be, if he can turn out to be a reliable minute munching shut down physical defenseman then fine. Imagine a bigger, stronger, better defensive Alexei Emelin.
Emelin is a good skater with very good mobility thats why his timing is basically always perfect when he crushes opponents with devastating open ice hits.. I dont see Tinordi with the same type of ability.. I see Tinordi as a very tough guy to play against in the def zone, able to crush guys along the board and a guy that will drop the gloves when needed..

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04-17-2012, 12:42 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
I think Emelin has some offensive potential that he's yet to show in North America. I wouldn't say he's in the same mould as Tinordi.

I think Tinordi is probably more physical, more skilled and better defensively than Hal Gill at the same age, but they play a similar defensive game. I just think Tinordi's skill level will let him be more than what Gill was for the majority of his career. Of course, I'm talking best case scenario.
If tinordi develops into a meaner, more mobile Hal Gill, we've got ourselves a stud. That being said, Hal Gill has a ton of smarts, he knows the defensive side of the game like very few others in the league. Now I'm not sure if Tinordi is all that smart, to me he's always seemed like a guy who ate glue as a kid. Love the guy, though.

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04-17-2012, 12:47 AM
  #255
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If tinordi develops into a meaner, more mobile Hal Gill, we've got ourselves a stud. That being said, Hal Gill has a ton of smarts, he knows the defensive side of the game like very few others in the league. Now I'm not sure if Tinordi is all that smart, to me he's always seemed like a guy who ate glue as a kid. Love the guy, though.
lol, but i don't think that kid eating stuff for loonies turns out to be the captain of the U-18 team, London Knights and assistant captain of his WJC team.

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04-17-2012, 06:08 AM
  #256
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lol, but i don't think that kid eating stuff for loonies turns out to be the captain of the U-18 team, London Knights and assistant captain of his WJC team.
Explain Dion Phaneuf then........just sayin'

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04-17-2012, 09:32 AM
  #257
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Explain Dion Phaneuf then........just sayin'
Phaneuf was a great player before the big contract. Once he got the money his game changed. That and he didn't have Hamerlik covering his @$% when he was head hunting for a big hit. Not sure what Burke was thinking when he made him captain, he doesn't deserve to be captain of a peewee team.

As for Tinordi, he's a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He won't give you a Subban level interview but how many hockey players speak that well in front of the camera, they all got a case of the "um's, er's and ah's". He's progressed very well and is a leader in his locker room. As well, his offensive game is slowly coming along (5pts in 10 playoff games). He's got a nice wrister and if he can develop a powerful slap shot (he can at least hit the net now) we will have a very valuable building block for the future.

Tinordi will have to work more on his fighting and should pick and choose who he battles with ala lucic. With some more weight on him he should be able to destroy people with his reach. He can also take a punch like his father which any good fighter will have to do unlike Mr.Komisarik.

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04-17-2012, 11:07 AM
  #258
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Phaneuf is smart enough to work the stereo in the Leafs dressing room... Hence the Captain's C.

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04-17-2012, 11:20 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Chant View Post
Phaneuf was a great player before the big contract. Once he got the money his game changed. That and he didn't have Hamerlik covering his @$% when he was head hunting for a big hit. Not sure what Burke was thinking when he made him captain, he doesn't deserve to be captain of a peewee team.

As for Tinordi, he's a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He won't give you a Subban level interview but how many hockey players speak that well in front of the camera, they all got a case of the "um's, er's and ah's". He's progressed very well and is a leader in his locker room. As well, his offensive game is slowly coming along (5pts in 10 playoff games). He's got a nice wrister and if he can develop a powerful slap shot (he can at least hit the net now) we will have a very valuable building block for the future.

Tinordi will have to work more on his fighting and should pick and choose who he battles with ala lucic. With some more weight on him he should be able to destroy people with his reach. He can also take a punch like his father which any good fighter will have to do unlike Mr.Komisarik.
Thanks for the info on tinordi. I was only half joking about the glue-eating comment. He does have that sort of 'too-stoned-to-think' look about him. I don't get to see him half as much as I'd like, but I've liked what I've seen. What I was most afraid of in his case was not being smart enough to process the game at higher speeds.

O'byrne, while having decent enough mobility for his size and the strength to have his way with most forwards would get caught taking stupid penalties because he seemed to always be behind the play. And yes, I know he went to an Ivy-League school somewhere, doesn't change my opinion that he looked a tad stupid. That's my fear for Tinordi, just becoming another O'byrne.

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04-17-2012, 11:27 AM
  #260
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So yeah, Jonathan Audy-Marchessault apparently is no one's property and had a pretty solid rookie year in the A. Might be worth a shot to give him a deal and hope to pull another Desharnais.

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04-17-2012, 11:31 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
So yeah, Jonathan Audy-Marchessault apparently is no one's property and had a pretty solid rookie year in the A. Might be worth a shot to give him a deal and hope to pull another Desharnais.
Nice find, but where would we put him next year if we did sign him?

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04-17-2012, 11:45 AM
  #262
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Nice find, but where would we put him next year if we did sign him?
Not like Hamilton is overflooding with good players. Let Jodoin figure out where he fits.

If the guy can make the AHL as a walk-on and get top 6 minutes in his rookie year, just sign the damn guy and figure out what's what.

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04-17-2012, 12:09 PM
  #263
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Highlight from Patrick Hollands past 2 games.

Game 5: Tri City 5 Spokane 3

Included in these highlights is Holland with a hard working garbage goal to start the scoring. Also shows his ability to play the point on the PP, takes one hell of a hit and still gets the puck deep and also shows just how unselfish he is by passing the puck off for a goal instead of easily putting it in the empty net.

http://whl.ca/video/index/id/1334528893

Game 6: Spokane 4 Tri City 3 OT

Mr. Holland gets in a fight in these highlights as well as scores a beauty goal.

http://whl.ca/video/index/id/1334680030


Game 7 will be Wednesday night in Tri City.

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04-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars0987 View Post
Highlight from Patrick Hollands past 2 games.

Game 5: Tri City 5 Spokane 3

Included in these highlights is Holland with a hard working garbage goal to start the scoring. Also shows his ability to play the point on the PP, takes one hell of a hit and still gets the puck deep and also shows just how unselfish he is by passing the puck off for a goal instead of easily putting it in the empty net.

http://whl.ca/video/index/id/1334528893

Game 6: Spokane 4 Tri City 3 OT

Mr. Holland gets in a fight in these highlights as well as scores a beauty goal.

http://whl.ca/video/index/id/1334680030


Game 7 will be Wednesday night in Tri City.
Holland continues to impress me, his skill might not be NHL offense calibur but his intelligence and skating makes me confident he could be a good bottom line guy, and the fact that he has a bit of grit to him makes me think he could be better than say, Tom Pyatt. It will be interesting to see how both him and Bournival do in the AHL next year; if anything Holland has been the better of the two in the playoffs (albeit in a more offensive role)

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04-17-2012, 12:53 PM
  #265
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Mr. Holland gets in a fight in these highlights as well as scores a beauty goal.
Are you Pierre Gauthier?

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Old
04-17-2012, 01:39 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Not like Hamilton is overflooding with good players. Let Jodoin figure out where he fits.

If the guy can make the AHL as a walk-on and get top 6 minutes in his rookie year, just sign the damn guy and figure out what's what.
That was Hamilton this year, now you have to think about Hamilton next year. Depending on what happens with Kristo and Quailer, if they turn pro then the Habs are looking at having 5 rookie forwards (Gallagher, Bournival, Holland, Kristo and Quailer), along with 4 rookie defensemen (Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn) and the following have 1 year pro under their belt, Nash, Stjeskal, Berger, Nattinen, Lefebvre, Leblanc and Malka/DeSimone if they sign them. That's a lot of youth in the lineup as is, granted a few of them will surely have to see time in the ECHL, but that's likely the biggest incoming rookie class I have ever seen at least in some time.

So while I wouldn't be opposed to adding more talent, I think the new GM will need to be careful and take into consideration the amount of ice time our prime prospects will be getting next season. I'd rather see them have a clear thought out plan then just hey add this guy and we'll find room for him as the 50 contract limit could easily be tested depending on who they bring back but more important is the balance between younth/inexperience and having some vets that are going to take up ice time as well.

Whatever happens this summer, it needs to be done right this time around as we have some key parts of our future headed to Hamilton next fall and mistakes can not continue to be made with the development process.

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04-17-2012, 01:43 PM
  #267
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That was Hamilton this year, now you have to think about Hamilton next year. Depending on what happens with Kristo and Quailer, if they turn pro then the Habs are looking at having 5 rookie forwards (Gallagher, Bournival, Holland, Kristo and Quailer), along with 4 rookie defensemen (Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn) and the following have 1 year pro under their belt, Nash, Stjeskal, Berger, Nattinen, Lefebvre, Leblanc and Malka/DeSimone if they sign them. That's a lot of youth in the lineup as is, granted a few of them will surely have to see time in the ECHL, but that's like the biggest incoming rookie class I have ever seen at least in some time.

So while I wouldn't be opposed to adding more talent, I think the new GM will need to be careful and take into consideration the amount of ice time our prime prospects will be getting next season. I'd rather see them have a clear thought out plan then just hey add this guy and we'll find room for him as the 50 contract limit could easily be tested depending on who they bring back but more important is the balance between younth/inexperience and having some vets that are going to take up ice time as well.

Whatever happens this summer, it needs to be done right this time around as we have some key parts of our future headed to Hamilton next fall and mistakes can not continue to be made with the development process.
I think Audy-Marchessault proved he was at least worth a look. It's all fine and dandy to say that some of the new guys need time and whatnot, but if JAM is a better player than a good deal of them, I have no clue why we'd shy away only to give some guys who are longer shots to make our team more ice-time.

Not to mention adding a legitimate top 6 forward to a team is never a bad thing when it comes down to results. Hamilton will be a better team for it, and a better team plays more hockey in Spring. Overall, I don't see the downside of signing him. He's definately better than all of our sophomore players except probably for Leblanc.

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04-17-2012, 01:53 PM
  #268
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I think Audy-Marchessault proved he was at least worth a look. It's all fine and dandy to say that some of the new guys need time and whatnot, but if JAM is a better player than a good deal of them, I have no clue why we'd shy away only to give some guys who are longer shots to make our team more ice-time.

Not to mention adding a legitimate top 6 forward to a team is never a bad thing when it comes down to results. Hamilton will be a better team for it, and a better team plays more hockey in Spring. Overall, I don't see the downside of signing him. He's definately better than all of our sophomore players except probably for Leblanc.
Well if the new GM thinks he's worth a shot that you bring him in but at the same time due to the 50 contract rule, where we will have to have some AHL vets to mix with all the youth will making adding FA's a little more difficult this off-season then in previous years.

If Audy-Marchessault is better then guys like Nattinen, Avtsin etc.. then great bring him aboard, but my point this that the new GM will need to have a good plan in place before bringing in any FA's at this point. Now if Kristo and Quailer don't turn pro then that opens 2 contract spots and so adding a FA makes sense.

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04-17-2012, 05:21 PM
  #269
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Patrick Holland

Hello, Jackets fan coming in peace ... I live in Spokane and regularly see Patrick Holland in action, so here are some thoughts:

Holland showed plenty of potential as a rookie in the WHL, prior to being selected by Calgary. He played a depth role for the Ams that year, but clearly displayed skill (to go with his size) throughout that season. Really, solid scouting by the Flames, as Holland stepped right up last year and became one of the most dangerous forwards in the league, which has carried on to him leading the league in assists this year.

He spent most of his time this year on a line with overagers Adam Hughesman (UFA), and Brenden Shinnimin (PHX), all three of whom wound up in the top-10 in scoring in the league. Holland was clearly the setup man for these guys, yet he also quarterbacked the team's top powerplay unit from the blueline, and showcased his physical play as well, clearing room for the two smaller forwards.

As I mentioned, he's a big kid; makes very smart reads and good passes, has soft hands and can stickhandle extremely well (as you saw on his highlight reel from last night). He has a good (if underrated) shot, and seems to know when to use the shot rather than move the puck ... though he is a pass first player.

From last night's game, I thought he was the best player on the ice for either team, maybe with the exception of Spokane's goaltender, Eric Williams. Gordie Howe hattrick and all! Holland elevates his game when it matters, and is really a lethal player from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. I really have enjoyed watching this kid play the last few years, as most of the time, he simply stands out above the rest. You guys might have a real steal of a prospect here ... take it from a fan of his team's biggest rival.

I do some amateur scouting on the side, and recently wrote up a blurb on the league's top-10 scorers, which obviously includes Holland.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/off...s-supreme-whl/

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/blu...s-top-scorers/

Cheers!

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04-17-2012, 05:25 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Hello, Jackets fan coming in peace ... I live in Spokane and regularly see Patrick Holland in action, so here are some thoughts:

Holland showed plenty of potential as a rookie in the WHL, prior to being selected by Calgary. He played a depth role for the Ams that year, but clearly displayed skill (to go with his size) throughout that season. Really, solid scouting by the Flames, as Holland stepped right up last year and became one of the most dangerous forwards in the league, which has carried on to him leading the league in assists this year.

He spent most of his time this year on a line with overagers Adam Hughesman (UFA), and Brenden Shinnimin (PHX), all three of whom wound up in the top-10 in scoring in the league. Holland was clearly the setup man for these guys, yet he also quarterbacked the team's top powerplay unit from the blueline, and showcased his physical play as well, clearing room for the two smaller forwards.

As I mentioned, he's a big kid; makes very smart reads and good passes, has soft hands and can stickhandle extremely well (as you saw on his highlight reel from last night). He has a good (if underrated) shot, and seems to know when to use the shot rather than move the puck ... though he is a pass first player.

From last night's game, I thought he was the best player on the ice for either team, maybe with the exception of Spokane's goaltender, Eric Williams. Gordie Howe hattrick and all! Holland elevates his game when it matters, and is really a lethal player from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. I really have enjoyed watching this kid play the last few years, as most of the time, he simply stands out above the rest. You guys might have a real steal of a prospect here ... take it from a fan of his team's biggest rival.

I do some amateur scouting on the side, and recently wrote up a blurb on the league's top-10 scorers, which obviously includes Holland.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/off...s-supreme-whl/

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/blu...s-top-scorers/

Cheers!
Thanks for the info, very much appreciated!

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04-17-2012, 05:31 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Hello, Jackets fan coming in peace ... I live in Spokane and regularly see Patrick Holland in action, so here are some thoughts:

Holland showed plenty of potential as a rookie in the WHL, prior to being selected by Calgary. He played a depth role for the Ams that year, but clearly displayed skill (to go with his size) throughout that season. Really, solid scouting by the Flames, as Holland stepped right up last year and became one of the most dangerous forwards in the league, which has carried on to him leading the league in assists this year.

He spent most of his time this year on a line with overagers Adam Hughesman (UFA), and Brenden Shinnimin (PHX), all three of whom wound up in the top-10 in scoring in the league. Holland was clearly the setup man for these guys, yet he also quarterbacked the team's top powerplay unit from the blueline, and showcased his physical play as well, clearing room for the two smaller forwards.

As I mentioned, he's a big kid; makes very smart reads and good passes, has soft hands and can stickhandle extremely well (as you saw on his highlight reel from last night). He has a good (if underrated) shot, and seems to know when to use the shot rather than move the puck ... though he is a pass first player.

From last night's game, I thought he was the best player on the ice for either team, maybe with the exception of Spokane's goaltender, Eric Williams. Gordie Howe hattrick and all! Holland elevates his game when it matters, and is really a lethal player from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. I really have enjoyed watching this kid play the last few years, as most of the time, he simply stands out above the rest. You guys might have a real steal of a prospect here ... take it from a fan of his team's biggest rival.

I do some amateur scouting on the side, and recently wrote up a blurb on the league's top-10 scorers, which obviously includes Holland.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/off...s-supreme-whl/

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/blu...s-top-scorers/

Cheers!
Thanks for the report!

How do you think his chances are for reaching the NHL? What is his ceiling? Which player would you compare his game after? How would you value him right now - like a 2nd-3rd round pick?

Many questions, but I don't know so much about him and thought this might be my chance. Thanks again.

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04-17-2012, 05:39 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Hello, Jackets fan coming in peace ... I live in Spokane and regularly see Patrick Holland in action, so here are some thoughts:

Holland showed plenty of potential as a rookie in the WHL, prior to being selected by Calgary. He played a depth role for the Ams that year, but clearly displayed skill (to go with his size) throughout that season. Really, solid scouting by the Flames, as Holland stepped right up last year and became one of the most dangerous forwards in the league, which has carried on to him leading the league in assists this year.

He spent most of his time this year on a line with overagers Adam Hughesman (UFA), and Brenden Shinnimin (PHX), all three of whom wound up in the top-10 in scoring in the league. Holland was clearly the setup man for these guys, yet he also quarterbacked the team's top powerplay unit from the blueline, and showcased his physical play as well, clearing room for the two smaller forwards.

As I mentioned, he's a big kid; makes very smart reads and good passes, has soft hands and can stickhandle extremely well (as you saw on his highlight reel from last night). He has a good (if underrated) shot, and seems to know when to use the shot rather than move the puck ... though he is a pass first player.

From last night's game, I thought he was the best player on the ice for either team, maybe with the exception of Spokane's goaltender, Eric Williams. Gordie Howe hattrick and all! Holland elevates his game when it matters, and is really a lethal player from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. I really have enjoyed watching this kid play the last few years, as most of the time, he simply stands out above the rest. You guys might have a real steal of a prospect here ... take it from a fan of his team's biggest rival.

I do some amateur scouting on the side, and recently wrote up a blurb on the league's top-10 scorers, which obviously includes Holland.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/off...s-supreme-whl/

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/blu...s-top-scorers/

Cheers!
Thanks a lot for you input, great read!

The bolded part is what I worry about the most, playing with overagers. Now if you were to look at this line who would you say is the catalyst? Does Holland benefit more from the overagers, do the overagers benefit more or is it mutual?

When we made the trade I was quite excited for the kid after reading what I could find on him. Sounded like a real steal.

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04-17-2012, 05:46 PM
  #273
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In one of the parts of an interview with MA Godin, Clement Jodoin talks about the players graduating to the pros/Bulldogs next fall and he mentions Kristo as part of the group, FWIW.

«Une nouvelle ère va commencer avec l'arrivée à la ligne bleue des Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi et Morgan Ellis, ainsi que des Michaël Bournival, Danny Kristo et Brendan Gallagher à l'attaque. Ça va nous amener une nouvelle énergie.»

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04-17-2012, 05:57 PM
  #274
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In one of the parts of an interview with MA Godin, Clement Jodoin talks about the players graduating to the pros/Bulldogs next fall and he mentions Kristo as part of the group, FWIW.

«Une nouvelle ère va commencer avec l'arrivée à la ligne bleue des Nathan Beaulieu, Jarred Tinordi et Morgan Ellis, ainsi que des Michaël Bournival, Danny Kristo et Brendan Gallagher à l'attaque. Ça va nous amener une nouvelle énergie.»
I think they're just waiting for a GM to be announced before making it official.

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04-17-2012, 06:41 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Hello, Jackets fan coming in peace ... I live in Spokane and regularly see Patrick Holland in action, so here are some thoughts:

Holland showed plenty of potential as a rookie in the WHL, prior to being selected by Calgary. He played a depth role for the Ams that year, but clearly displayed skill (to go with his size) throughout that season. Really, solid scouting by the Flames, as Holland stepped right up last year and became one of the most dangerous forwards in the league, which has carried on to him leading the league in assists this year.

He spent most of his time this year on a line with overagers Adam Hughesman (UFA), and Brenden Shinnimin (PHX), all three of whom wound up in the top-10 in scoring in the league. Holland was clearly the setup man for these guys, yet he also quarterbacked the team's top powerplay unit from the blueline, and showcased his physical play as well, clearing room for the two smaller forwards.

As I mentioned, he's a big kid; makes very smart reads and good passes, has soft hands and can stickhandle extremely well (as you saw on his highlight reel from last night). He has a good (if underrated) shot, and seems to know when to use the shot rather than move the puck ... though he is a pass first player.

From last night's game, I thought he was the best player on the ice for either team, maybe with the exception of Spokane's goaltender, Eric Williams. Gordie Howe hattrick and all! Holland elevates his game when it matters, and is really a lethal player from just about anywhere in the offensive zone. I really have enjoyed watching this kid play the last few years, as most of the time, he simply stands out above the rest. You guys might have a real steal of a prospect here ... take it from a fan of his team's biggest rival.

I do some amateur scouting on the side, and recently wrote up a blurb on the league's top-10 scorers, which obviously includes Holland.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/off...s-supreme-whl/

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/blu...s-top-scorers/

Cheers!
Great great to hear!! Thx for the report!!

NewHabsEra* is offline  
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