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Question about Howson's trade for Carter

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Old
04-16-2012, 07:21 AM
  #26
JACKETfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I don't know, that blog was focused on Johansen not Carter... Perhaps Howson should have done some research and not traded for Carter if he found out Carter hated Columbus regardless of the situation! As for Priest I said IMO so don't turn that opinion into a fact.

Tip for Scott Howson: ask someone how players may react to being traded to Columbus prior to making the trade.
The problem with this Bob, is that by your criteria Howson would never be able to make a trade. I mean, who in their right freakin mind would want to be traded to the last place team? ...especially one that has no tradition of winning and is also not generally perceived as a hockey town or as a cosmopolitan city.

I still go back to Carter. He's supposed to be a professional. Lots of guys get traded without their knowledge. Happens ALL the time.

The only EXCUSE that would exonerate him would be if he was traded to a team and front office that he discovered was completely inept, and would probably ruin his prime years. Whoops.

btw... Remember that Rick Nash traveled to Carter to convince him to come to Columbus.
This is the same Rick Nash who four months later requested a ticket out of town.

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04-16-2012, 07:32 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
btw... Remember that Rick Nash traveled to Carter to convince him to come to Columbus.
This is the same Rick Nash who four months later requested a ticket out of town.

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Old
04-16-2012, 08:09 AM
  #28
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
btw... Remember that Rick Nash traveled to Carter to convince him to come to Columbus.

This is the same Rick Nash who four months later requested a ticket out of town.
So either, in the meantime, he lost faith in the front office or he really did propose his own trade as a benefit to the team. Or both. Or neither. Human motivation and self-interest are rarely that clearcut.

I have no doubt that Nash was as deluded about the future of this team, last summer, as most of the rest of us were. He, too, probably thought that Carter would be a great addition and that Wiz, Dex, and Martinek were going to make this a playoff team.

Shame on us all.

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04-16-2012, 08:10 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
The problem with this Bob, is that by your criteria Howson would never be able to make a trade. I mean, who in their right freakin mind would want to be traded to the last place team? ...especially one that has no tradition of winning and is also not generally perceived as a hockey town or as a cosmopolitan city.

I still go back to Carter. He's supposed to be a professional. Lots of guys get traded without their knowledge. Happens ALL the time.

The only EXCUSE that would exonerate him would be if he was traded to a team and front office that he discovered was completely inept, and would probably ruin his prime years. Whoops.

btw... Remember that Rick Nash traveled to Carter to convince him to come to Columbus.
This is the same Rick Nash who four months later requested a ticket out of town.

I knew he had the reoccuring injury with his foot, but I remember there was scuttlebutt that he probably could have played sooner if the team needed him. I know 8 (or whatever it was when the injury occured) we were in bad shape, but it just seemed like the decision to deal him could have been made very soon into the season..... I actually attacked his moping post-trade pretty viciously, but have primarily defended him since the news broke in mid janauary that it was all but a certainity the team was moving him. The one tidbit that I will never defend is that he didn't have an NTC anymore, therefore, he shouldn't have necessarily felt as "trapped" as we were led to believe he felt.

How soon was this organization willing to agree that the season was lost?

If the organization was receiving reports that Carter was constantly asking if he needed to worry about being traded and had constantly been told no by Holmgren, the CBJ should've backed off right then and there on any deal.

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04-16-2012, 08:16 AM
  #30
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I was always suspect due to the mission to placate Carter did not include a former teammate and linemate Umberger. To me that was telling from the get go.

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04-16-2012, 08:21 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I have no doubt that Nash was as deluded about the future of this team, last summer, as most of the rest of us were. He, too, probably thought that Carter would be a great addition and that Wiz, Dex, and Martinek were going to make this a playoff team.

Shame on us all.
Can the fact that it failed so spectactularly be chalked up in a defense as "At least they made an effort?"

This organization is the classic case of putting the cart before the horse. This whole organization's mantra has been built on that, even Post-MacLean. This ownership group and Mike Priest may have fired MacLean, but they bought what he was selling, that the team wasn't far off, even at the end of his tenure..... Unfullfilled promises just begot more unfullfilled promises. Try explaining, rationally, to a fanbase that's been told time and time again to expect a winner that it will take even more time....

That why they are pushing this "retool, not rebuild" line. No one in this organization has the fortitude to come out and say "We need a full on rebuild". Every year they delay is another year of disappointing results. The Expectations are huge for a team thats never won a playoff game because they are all self-made expectations.

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04-16-2012, 08:23 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I was always suspect due to the mission to placate Carter did not include a former teammate and linemate Umberger. To me that was telling from the get go.
True, true. I remember that Umberger also couldn't get texts returned to him from Carter....

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04-16-2012, 08:39 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Can the fact that it failed so spectactularly be chalked up in a defense as "At least they made an effort?"

This organization is the classic case of putting the cart before the horse. This whole organization's mantra has been built on that, even Post-MacLean. This ownership group and Mike Priest may have fired MacLean, but they bought what he was selling, that the team wasn't far off, even at the end of his tenure..... Unfullfilled promises just begot more unfullfilled promises. Try explaining, rationally, to a fanbase that's been told time and time again to expect a winner that it will take even more time....

That why they are pushing this "retool, not rebuild" line. No one in this organization has the fortitude to come out and say "We need a full on rebuild". Every year they delay is another year of disappointing results. The Expectations are huge for a team thats never won a playoff game because they are all self-made expectations.
Very good post, KBW.

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04-16-2012, 09:32 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Very good post, KBW.
Well other than I don't think we need a full rebuild so there isn't anything to be had telling me that, it was well structured and interesting.

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04-16-2012, 10:15 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Can the fact that it failed so spectactularly be chalked up in a defense as "At least they made an effort?"

This organization is the classic case of putting the cart before the horse. This whole organization's mantra has been built on that, even Post-MacLean. This ownership group and Mike Priest may have fired MacLean, but they bought what he was selling, that the team wasn't far off, even at the end of his tenure..... Unfullfilled promises just begot more unfullfilled promises. Try explaining, rationally, to a fanbase that's been told time and time again to expect a winner that it will take even more time....

That why they are pushing this "retool, not rebuild" line. No one in this organization has the fortitude to come out and say "We need a full on rebuild". Every year they delay is another year of disappointing results. The Expectations are huge for a team thats never won a playoff game because they are all self-made expectations.
I'll pile on, excellent post Keith... I may hire you to be my ghost writer..

Good work.

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04-16-2012, 10:54 PM
  #36
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Oh hell...someone get Candy Ass on the phone and asked him to come home. I kinda miss him. Might be the wine but yeah, I miss him.

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04-17-2012, 07:20 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
Oh hell...someone get Candy Ass on the phone and asked him to come home. I kinda miss him. Might be the wine but yeah, I miss him.
For some reason this has me laughing this AM. How you feeling? Must have been a lot of wine to get you to miss him.

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04-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Can the fact that it failed so spectactularly be chalked up in a defense as "At least they made an effort?"

This organization is the classic case of putting the cart before the horse. This whole organization's mantra has been built on that, even Post-MacLean. This ownership group and Mike Priest may have fired MacLean, but they bought what he was selling, that the team wasn't far off, even at the end of his tenure..... Unfullfilled promises just begot more unfullfilled promises. Try explaining, rationally, to a fanbase that's been told time and time again to expect a winner that it will take even more time....

That why they are pushing this "retool, not rebuild" line. No one in this organization has the fortitude to come out and say "We need a full on rebuild". Every year they delay is another year of disappointing results. The Expectations are huge for a team thats never won a playoff game because they are all self-made expectations.

assuming a Nash trade...

If a new #1 goaltender, 2 top 6 skaters, and a shutdown defenseman are a rebuild, then I agree. Thats probably 15 million in personnel.

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04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
  #39
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For some reason this has me laughing this AM. How you feeling? Must have been a lot of wine to get you to miss him.
I know!! Glad you got the irony of that post. I was laughing when I wrote it. There is a guy on Twitter doing a parody of Candy Ass. I get so tickled at him. He's outrageous! If only CAC had that personality, I would actually miss him.

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04-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
True, true. I remember that Umberger also couldn't get texts returned to him from Carter....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I was always suspect due to the mission to placate Carter did not include a former teammate and linemate Umberger. To me that was telling from the get go.
I must have been asleep when this happened with RJ.
But it is indeed very telling.

If I recall, RJ was very happy to get out of Philadelphia.
Perhaps we now know why.

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04-17-2012, 08:49 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
I must have been asleep when this happened with RJ.
But it is indeed very telling.

If I recall, RJ was very happy to get out of Philadelphia.
Perhaps we now know why.
I seem to remember RJ telling a group of fans that he hadn't heard from Carter, despite texting him.... Maybe at the Draft party? The deal was done three days before the draft, right?

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04-17-2012, 08:52 PM
  #42
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In AP's last chat, he said "Clearly they needed to do a better job vetting Jeff Carter before the trade. They were warned by Carter's camp that it could be messy, but there was tremendous pressure from within the Blue Jackets' organization to get the deal done."

Not being anywhere near Columbus this is the first I am hearing about this. Were the CBJ really warned prior to making the trade that Carter did not want to be in Columbus?

If this is true...I am speechless. Why would you ever trade for a guy who has told you he doesn't want to be here?

I thought those were two separate issues. I do remember Porty saying that management should have had some way of knowing/checking up on Carter before bringing him here and knowing hewouldn't be a good fit in Columbus...But I thought the second part was that once here, the Carter camp was basically telling Howson to "trade me or I will become a bigger dick".

I don't believe Columbus had any discussions, or would be allowed to have had conversations with Carter prior to him becoming a Blue Jacket. But it was pretty much stated he was a behind the scenes ****** while here. Obviously, management couldn't let this be public if they wanted to get something of value back for Carter.

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04-17-2012, 10:51 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by section 204 View Post
Wasn't there a lot of talk at the time of the trade that Howson and Holmgren had been talking about it as far back as the preceding trade deadline? Does this jive with Priest ordering Howson to make a move that Howson was uncomfortable with and not giving him time to do the requisite background work?
I can think of several ways that the two can mesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat110 View Post
I thought those were two separate issues. I do remember Porty saying that management should have had some way of knowing/checking up on Carter before bringing him here and knowing hewouldn't be a good fit in Columbus...But I thought the second part was that once here, the Carter camp was basically telling Howson to "trade me or I will become a bigger dick".

I don't believe Columbus had any discussions, or would be allowed to have had conversations with Carter prior to him becoming a Blue Jacket. But it was pretty much stated he was a behind the scenes ****** while here. Obviously, management couldn't let this be public if they wanted to get something of value back for Carter.
My understanding is that there would have to be written permission from the involved teams forwarded to the league offices for there to be any kind of contact, or even backdoor contact. Also, the NHL has taken a very dim view of tampering in the last 20 years (as anyone involved with Scott Stevens can verify); this isn't the NBA.

However, there's usually a direct relationship between how much a team can tolerate and how good the player is. If someone is eccentric and a poor player, he'll be labeled as "crazy" and be sent on his way...if he's eccentric and a good player, people will say "Boy, isn't that guy a hoot?" If someone is hyper, it's good if he's a good player or is playing well, and bad if he's not. If he's laid back, it's good if he's good, bad if he's not.

I know you'll hate me for a segue into baseball, but there used to be a pitcher (Joaquin Andujar) who drove everyone nuts because he was high-strung and seemingly couldn't handle adversity. He'd have a poor outing, take it out on someone, and be sent to the bullpen. He'd go days without pitching and go even more crazy, then take that out on someone, and on and on. Whitey Herzog picked him up for St. Louis and learned to ignore him; if Andujar pitched well, great. If he didn't, then let him have his say, then come back to him four days later for his next start.

Anyway, the point is that Andujar was 29 when Herzog got him. He'd driven everyone nuts in the Reds' organization when they were scouting and developing all sorts of young players, so they got rid of him. He drove Bill Virdon nuts in Houston; Virdon was a good manager who was bringing along young players. Andujar had a reputation as a head case, a bad teammate, and someone who couldn't handle anything going wrong. Herzog backed off, Andujar did exactly what he'd done before, and the two had some great years together (including the 1982 World Series). But Andujar went from having this horrible reputation to being "eccentric", even though nothing had changed...it was because he was pitching well and nothing else.

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