HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Arizona Coyotes
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Andrew Shaw's hit on Mike Smith(suspended 3 games)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-17-2012, 01:37 AM
  #76
TheLegend
Megathread Refugee
 
TheLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Country: United States
Posts: 3,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InTOEWSweTrust View Post
are we going to keep talking about this crap for real? nobody is hurt move on?
Check around the internet..... Hawks fans can't shut up about it.

TheLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 01:43 AM
  #77
MP
Registered User
 
MP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubba Jenkins View Post
If he is hurt, we lose the better player.
The better player. The team MVP. The series. You name it. LaBarbera is a series loss waiting to happen. I saw him begin to stretch in case Smith couldn't continue, and it gave me dry heaves.

MP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 01:48 AM
  #78
Colt45Blast
is in your head
 
Colt45Blast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: everytime
Country: Mexico
Posts: 25,436
vCash: 500
If Smith is gone for the series, expect for Towes and Kane to be targets.
Im not wishing that, but no question at least a couple of Coyotes will do that and Doan might be one of them knowing that his temper can get the best of him.

Colt45Blast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 09:28 AM
  #79
yotesreign
Registered User
 
yotesreign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Goldwater Blvd
Country: United States
Posts: 1,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
No, no. WE are going to do whatever we'd like. YOU can go ahead on back to your own team board.
Ha. I can hear it now...

"My team has it's own board'? I did not know that, cool beans, thanks dude!"

If I wanted to read what little hawk fans have to say I'd read their team's forum. I don't so I don't, and when they intrude I just add them to my 'ignore the troll' list.

yotesreign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 09:37 AM
  #80
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
I'm going to put my 2 bits in guys... I'm neither a Coyotes or Hawks fan. I seen the game and plenty of replays of the "hit." First, Shaw is 5'10" 180lbs, Smith is 6'4" 218 lbs. I don't think anyone would dispute Smith is larger than Shaw. Agreed? He outweighs Shaw by nearly 40 lbs too. Agreed?

Charging requires the offending player to take more than two strides toward his oppenent to make the check OR jump/run, of which Shaw did neither.

Boarding is out because, as the rule implies contact must be made with the boards in a violent manner....

From some of the angles I've looked at, it certainly appears Smith turns his head away just as Shaw is right upon him. Thus not really being struck or perhaps merely a glancing blow. At no time does Shaw stride into Smith. At no time does Shaw brace to intentionally body check Smith at all. He is standing straight up in fact and gliding.

What is forgotten in all this is the fact that after the "hit" Smith swings around and then actually can be seen jumping off the ice (take a look at the replays, he jumps up) then falls clutching his face mask immediately. Smith dove, he at no time lost consciousness or he would not have had the wear with all to jump, clutch the mask, writhe around on the ice. If he was injured why did he finish the game? His trainer should have demanded he be removed from the game in the best interests of the player. Not only did he return, but he made about a hand full of big saves... If he was so "groggy" how'd he keep his composure, focus and stellar reflex? It was a dive. This bit about his status not being known for Tuesday's game, didn't practice with team is all for show. The refs were forced into a call because of the spectacle. It's happened so many times before and at all levels of hockey. This was not a charge folks whatsoever. If Smith plays Tuesday night, he should be looked at for supplementary discipline. If they put in the back up and he's on the bench that should tell you right there that he is good to go at any time. If the Coyotes were seriously concerned about their player they would not even dress him. So we'll see what happens. Should be interesting.

PokeCheck101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 09:53 AM
  #81
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
Shaw's penalty came at the 7:11 mark of the 2nd... Smith went on to play 40+ mins (rest of 2nd, 3rd and O/T).... If there is any lingering injury, Coyote fans should be fuming at the leadership and medical staff of the Coyotes for endangering their #1 goalie's health.

PokeCheck101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:00 AM
  #82
PhoPhan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
What is forgotten in all this is the fact that after the "hit" Smith swings around and then actually can be seen jumping off the ice (take a look at the replays, he jumps up) then falls clutching his face mask immediately. Smith dove, he at no time lost consciousness or he would not have had the wear with all to jump, clutch the mask, writhe around on the ice. If he was injured why did he finish the game? His trainer should have demanded he be removed from the game in the best interests of the player. Not only did he return, but he made about a hand full of big saves... If he was so "groggy" how'd he keep his composure, focus and stellar reflex? It was a dive. This bit about his status not being known for Tuesday's game, didn't practice with team is all for show. The refs were forced into a call because of the spectacle. It's happened so many times before and at all levels of hockey. This was not a charge folks whatsoever. If Smith plays Tuesday night, he should be looked at for supplementary discipline. If they put in the back up and he's on the bench that should tell you right there that he is good to go at any time. If the Coyotes were seriously concerned about their player they would not even dress him. So we'll see what happens. Should be interesting.
I don't understand this logic. Why is it all or nothing? Why couldn't he have been somewhat hurt? We've had several firsthand accounts of him being quite woozy and off, and his reticence to play the puck was visible from even the broadcast. Was that "for show" too?

Meanwhile, I would say missing a full day of practice would be a bigger blow to this team than Shaw getting suspended.

Let's say Smith did take a dive, just for the sake of argument. Do you really believe Shaw's hit was a legal play, just because it wasn't charging or boarding? Are you aware that you're not allowed to run over a goaltender?

PhoPhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:06 AM
  #83
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
Yep, I thought he was a choir boy from what the media from Chicago was saying. Guarantee if the roles were reversed there would be a media storm brewing. The advantage and disadvantage of following a small market team: absolute fun but zero respect!
I disagree. Regardless of who we cheer for, hits to the head at the speed hockey is played can permanently injure a player. No one should be wishing retribution etc, or finding themselves on the wrong end of the stick because of the market they are in. I am interested to see what Shaw gets, just like everyone else. I agree he may be a repeat offender however I'm sure Smith's actions will also be taken into account. As I mentioned above, he embelished and finished the game. These will be things that will weigh in favor of Shaw. Folks it was not a charge and that should not have been the call. I'm sorry I'm still not convinced it's even a penalty. Even more so now. I've seen multiple angles of this incident. The best is the direct overhead view and clearly Shaw's helmet is what contacts Smith's head. Smith is hunched over to play the puck and Shaw is trying to poke check it or block a pass and the contact is made... Folks I don't know what to say, at best it's incidental contact to the head and not intentional... The ruling has been "delayed" and likely because the disciplinary crew is trying to get word on Smith's condition... I honestly believe that if Smith plays he should be looked at for discipline as well based on my earlier post.

PokeCheck101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #84
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,871
vCash: 500
TLDR x2

rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:18 AM
  #85
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
I don't understand this logic. Why is it all or nothing? Why couldn't he have been somewhat hurt? We've had several firsthand accounts of him being quite woozy and off, and his reticence to play the puck was visible from even the broadcast. Was that "for show" too?

Meanwhile, I would say missing a full day of practice would be a bigger blow to this team than Shaw getting suspended.

Let's say Smith did take a dive, just for the sake of argument. Do you really believe Shaw's hit was a legal play, just because it wasn't charging or boarding? Are you aware that you're not allowed to run over a goaltender?
I couldn't agree with you more in regards to contact with a goalie in blatant situations. This isn't one of those situations. Shaw contacted Smith's head with his own head... What should be the call? That's what I'm perplexed about. He didn't make a head butting motion so you can rule out that. It appears to be unfortunate incidental contact. Smith played phenominal after the incident and gave his team a chance to win. This, to me, does not seem like a player who was injured. What I don't like is goalie's taking advantage of the rules on contact. More and more we see tenders shielding the puck to gain advantage and complete a pass or run a light pick on an opposition player. Tenders rarely get called for impeding an opposition player nor do they get called for spearing, slashing or intentional hits to the head on opposing players who are screening them. I encourage you to watch any number of screens during game play and you'll see what I mean. But the second a player touches a goalie it's all out war. I would like to see it called both ways is all I'm saying.

PokeCheck101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
  #86
mitch27
Registered User
 
mitch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
I disagree. Regardless of who we cheer for, hits to the head at the speed hockey is played can permanently injure a player. No one should be wishing retribution etc, or finding themselves on the wrong end of the stick because of the market they are in. I am interested to see what Shaw gets, just like everyone else. I agree he may be a repeat offender however I'm sure Smith's actions will also be taken into account. As I mentioned above, he embelished and finished the game. These will be things that will weigh in favor of Shaw. Folks it was not a charge and that should not have been the call. I'm sorry I'm still not convinced it's even a penalty. Even more so now. I've seen multiple angles of this incident. The best is the direct overhead view and clearly Shaw's helmet is what contacts Smith's head. Smith is hunched over to play the puck and Shaw is trying to poke check it or block a pass and the contact is made... Folks I don't know what to say, at best it's incidental contact to the head and not intentional... The ruling has been "delayed" and likely because the disciplinary crew is trying to get word on Smith's condition... I honestly believe that if Smith plays he should be looked at for discipline as well based on my earlier post.
You don't think it was even a penalty? Are you serious? You said right in your post that Shaw makes incidental contact with Smith which, by the rules, is a penalty. It probably should've been called interference but that really doesn't matter. It was a dirty cheap shot no matter how you look at it. Goalies are NOT in any way "fair game" no matter how badly hawks fans think they should be.

mitch27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:24 AM
  #87
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
I disagree. Regardless of who we cheer for, hits to the head at the speed hockey is played can permanently injure a player. No one should be wishing retribution etc, or finding themselves on the wrong end of the stick because of the market they are in. I am interested to see what Shaw gets, just like everyone else. I agree he may be a repeat offender however I'm sure Smith's actions will also be taken into account. As I mentioned above, he embelished and finished the game. These will be things that will weigh in favor of Shaw. Folks it was not a charge and that should not have been the call. I'm sorry I'm still not convinced it's even a penalty. Even more so now. I've seen multiple angles of this incident. The best is the direct overhead view and clearly Shaw's helmet is what contacts Smith's head. Smith is hunched over to play the puck and Shaw is trying to poke check it or block a pass and the contact is made... Folks I don't know what to say, at best it's incidental contact to the head and not intentional... The ruling has been "delayed" and likely because the disciplinary crew is trying to get word on Smith's condition... I honestly believe that if Smith plays he should be looked at for discipline as well based on my earlier post.
Smith should be disciplined? lol really?

Look Shanahan's played the game. He's smart enough to see past any gamesmanship by either team.

I couldn't care less if Shaw got suspended myself. I'd prefer that Phoenix settle any issue on the ice rather than hold my breath in anticipation that the league is going to suspend an opposing player.

I don't have a problem if Smith embellished either. Goalies aren't fair game in the playoffs and like it or not Smith now has set the stage where he's going to get the favorable call going forward. If he is actually concussed then I would suspect a physical war and a strong likelihood of some dirty play from the Coyotes tonight. It could be a very ugly game this evening where the score is inconsequential. Which players survive without being hurt or suspended might be the conversation on these boards tomorrow.

hbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:27 AM
  #88
mitch27
Registered User
 
mitch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
I couldn't agree with you more in regards to contact with a goalie in blatant situations. This isn't one of those situations. Shaw contacted Smith's head with his own head... What should be the call? That's what I'm perplexed about. He didn't make a head butting motion so you can rule out that. It appears to be unfortunate incidental contact. Smith played phenominal after the incident and gave his team a chance to win. This, to me, does not seem like a player who was injured. What I don't like is goalie's taking advantage of the rules on contact. More and more we see tenders shielding the puck to gain advantage and complete a pass or run a light pick on an opposition player. Tenders rarely get called for impeding an opposition player nor do they get called for spearing, slashing or intentional hits to the head on opposing players who are screening them. I encourage you to watch any number of screens during game play and you'll see what I mean. But the second a player touches a goalie it's all out war. I would like to see it called both ways is all I'm saying.
That's great but whether it gets called both ways or not, what Shaw did was still illegal.

mitch27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #89
Blubba Jenkins
Staying Faithful
 
Blubba Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500


Edit:



Looks like shoulder to chin.

Blubba Jenkins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
  #90
Sceva Sct
on the edge
 
Sceva Sct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: limbo
Posts: 1,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
He is standing straight up in fact and gliding.
I won't argue the rest for now since it comes down to people seeing what each wants to see. But as for the above, this is kind of the problem. Most players in Shaws position would avoid contact by trying to cut off the pass along the boards, Shaw made no attempt to stop and skated through. He had plenty of time to stop or play the puck on the boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Shaw contacted Smith's head with his own head.
People still believe this?! Did you not see the angle from ice level or do you just believe whatever a hometown pbp man announces through the tv screen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Shaw's penalty came at the 7:11 mark of the 2nd... Smith went on to play 40+ mins (rest of 2nd, 3rd and O/T).... If there is any lingering injury, Coyote fans should be fuming at the leadership and medical staff of the Coyotes for endangering their #1 goalie's health.
I do agree the medical staff should be questioned.

Sceva Sct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:32 AM
  #91
Sceva Sct
on the edge
 
Sceva Sct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: limbo
Posts: 1,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
I couldn't care less if Shaw got suspended myself. I'd prefer that Phoenix settle any issue on the ice rather than hold my breath in anticipation that the league is going to suspend an opposing player.
Couldn't agree more. Game can't start soon enough.

Sceva Sct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:34 AM
  #92
PokeCheck101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
TLDR x2
Folks I'm here for discussion on the incident. Nothing more. I'm not a Coyotes or Hawks fan but I am a fan of the game. I don't like it when goalies get taken advantage of nor do I like it when the role is reversed. It puts a blackmark on the game. Look at the replays guys. The contact is head to head, un-intentional. Shaw can not be faulted for going after the puck, that's part of his job description. What is the alternative, make a free play zone in the trapezoid where a player can not enter so the goalie can freely play the puck? The call was wrong by the letter of the law... It is not charging. It was not charging, not elbowing.... The typical calls that lead to head contact calls. IF: Smith finished the game as he did, playing stellar I might add, does play Tues OR is on the bench will you concede that he embelished?

If you concede that he embelished, what is your guys' opinions on how this looks on the game of hockey AND what would you do if you were on the disciplinary committee? After all, he delayed a pretty good game by about 5 mins and possibly is the reason an opposing player may be out a game or two. Just for conversation sake. I know you're Coyote fans but look at it objectively, what would you do?

PokeCheck101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:36 AM
  #93
Naurutger
#FreeMax
 
Naurutger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maricopa County
Country: United States
Posts: 5,159
vCash: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubba Jenkins View Post
[IMG]
Looks like shoulder to chin.
Yep, and it looks like he is raising the shoulder to me. I am not a doctor but I know any time the brain has rapid movement that it takes a few minutes to swell and the C word could be in play. Just because Mike is finally a star on a team and wants to show what kind of player he is, he shouldn't be mocked as a faker; he is a gamer and if this goon tactic costs us the series it will be the ultimate shame.

Naurutger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #94
mitch27
Registered User
 
mitch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Folks I'm here for discussion on the incident. Nothing more. I'm not a Coyotes or Hawks fan but I am a fan of the game. I don't like it when goalies get taken advantage of nor do I like it when the role is reversed. It puts a blackmark on the game. Look at the replays guys. The contact is head to head, un-intentional. Shaw can not be faulted for going after the puck, that's part of his job description. What is the alternative, make a free play zone in the trapezoid where a player can not enter so the goalie can freely play the puck? The call was wrong by the letter of the law... It is not charging. It was not charging, not elbowing.... The typical calls that lead to head contact calls. IF: Smith finished the game as he did, playing stellar I might add, does play Tues OR is on the bench will you concede that he embelished?

If you concede that he embelished, what is your guys' opinions on how this looks on the game of hockey AND what would you do if you were on the disciplinary committee? After all, he delayed a pretty good game by about 5 mins and possibly is the reason an opposing player may be out a game or two. Just for conversation sake. I know you're Coyote fans but look at it objectively, what would you do?
I will not concede that he embellished after reading the first hand accounts of the incident in this thread. I suggest you do so too. You can say Shaw was just going after the puck all you want, what he did was ILLEGAL.

mitch27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #95
MP
Registered User
 
MP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
i don't see the problem. every time i try to avoid a collision in a crowded space, i lead with my shoulder too. totally natural.

MP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #96
Naurutger
#FreeMax
 
Naurutger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maricopa County
Country: United States
Posts: 5,159
vCash: 1329
This evidence is conclusive, he claimed to be playing the puck and was trying to avoid Smith, so the natural instinct is to jump at the man's head. The impact alone shows the force of the hit!


Last edited by Naurutger: 04-17-2012 at 10:49 AM.
Naurutger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #97
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokeCheck101 View Post
Folks I'm here for discussion on the incident. Nothing more. I'm not a Coyotes or Hawks fan but I am a fan of the game. I don't like it when goalies get taken advantage of nor do I like it when the role is reversed. It puts a blackmark on the game. Look at the replays guys. The contact is head to head, un-intentional. Shaw can not be faulted for going after the puck, that's part of his job description. What is the alternative, make a free play zone in the trapezoid where a player can not enter so the goalie can freely play the puck? The call was wrong by the letter of the law... It is not charging. It was not charging, not elbowing.... The typical calls that lead to head contact calls. IF: Smith finished the game as he did, playing stellar I might add, does play Tues OR is on the bench will you concede that he embelished?

If you concede that he embelished, what is your guys' opinions on how this looks on the game of hockey AND what would you do if you were on the disciplinary committee? After all, he delayed a pretty good game by about 5 mins and possibly is the reason an opposing player may be out a game or two. Just for conversation sake. I know you're Coyote fans but look at it objectively, what would you do?
After watching the Flyers/Penguins gong show this weekend I really think the league has other more important considerations than that of a player potentially embellishing a hit. Are we supposed to be in shock and awe that a player potentially embellished a hit? Oh the horror! Someone call the cops!

hbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:46 AM
  #98
MP
Registered User
 
MP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,947
vCash: 500
you know, Arizona is a stand your ground state. shaw is lucky smitty wasn't packing.

MP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:47 AM
  #99
Blubba Jenkins
Staying Faithful
 
Blubba Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,248
vCash: 500
I don't understand why a goalie would risk diving behind his net. If he gets caught, the net is wide open.

Blubba Jenkins is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 10:47 AM
  #100
Naurutger
#FreeMax
 
Naurutger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Maricopa County
Country: United States
Posts: 5,159
vCash: 1329
Yep, Smith just jammed his head into his shoulder; clearly dirty.

Quote:
“I wasn’t deliberately going in there,” Shaw said. “If you look, my eyes were focused on the puck, and I was leaning forward to get to the puck.

“When [Smith] turned to fire it my way, I kind of panicked [because] I didn’t want to get hit in the face. So I kind of turned my body, and at the last second his head came out, and I tried turning my shoulder away, but I had nowhere to go.”

If the Hawks are forced to go without Smith for a game or two, it will affect one of their best lines of the postseason. Shaw has played on the checking line alongside Dave Bolland and Bryan Bickell, which frequently has matched up against the Coyotes’ top scoring line.


http://www.daily-chronicle.com/2012/...ame-3/aqj6rb9/


Last edited by Naurutger: 04-17-2012 at 10:49 AM. Reason: wanted to show the picture again.
Naurutger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.