HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sacco gets a two year extension

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2012, 02:35 PM
  #176
Bill Peckerskull
Farging Ice Holes
 
Bill Peckerskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 5,983
vCash: 500
I still feel that if they are right at or below .500 this coming December/January that they would fire him.

Bill Peckerskull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 02:39 PM
  #177
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
We're gonna laugh at this thread (and the one some dummy started at the beginning of the year..."FIRE SACCO") in a few years when Sacco leads this team to a Stanley Cup win.
I really hope you're right, but odds are small for that to happen.

Colorado Avalanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #178
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull View Post
I still feel that if they are right at or below .500 this coming December/January that they would fire him.
I agree. I think If they miss playoffs next year, he's getting fired. I believe it's realistic for this team to be in playoffs next season. I mean, they must be in playoffs!

Colorado Avalanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 10:33 PM
  #179
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,397
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by S3rk13 View Post
Stastny will never get the credit he deserves. Is his contract a bit inflated, yea. But not by such a significant amount. You have to watch the little things that he does night in and night out, whether it be defensive plays or passes that open up the ice for his linemates. Goals and assists are a nice stat, but it usually takes a lot more than just a shot to score a goal now a days. Go back and watch the stretch of games where he was injured, the team falls apart. Like it or not, he is a leader on the team, he may not be the most flashy player but even in his bad games, he isn't a negative draw on the team. His calming presence alone makes up for the 1 million extra.
I think there is more than a 1M discrepancy between pay and performance at play here...but I do understand your point of view and respect it. While sober, I don't advocate trading Stastny because I don't believe his return would be worth what we give up...even if what we give up is confusing to me...especially when drunk and trying to figure out why the guy can't play like Joe Sakic did when getting paid damn near the same amount...I do have this to say...at least he's not putting his pecker skinner into a snow-blower yet. So he's got that going for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikei87 View Post
Ginners from my home town, says sacco is a great communicator and he like playing for him vs mclellan. not that he was a bad coach, but he enjoys the change. I think we all have a poor understanding oh how the players feel about sacco, which is probably what matter
Sacco is a decent coach. I'm not sold that he can lead a team to a Stanley Cup championship...but there is a long list of really good coaches that never lead a team to a Cup...and an even longer list of coaches that only lead one team to a Cup. Fact is, every year now there are 29+ coaches that fail to do so and most of them are better than me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
For all of those Sacco apologists, for all those fans that seem to be 'ok' with this but apart from saying "I'm ok with this" don't provide ANY other feedback whatsoever...I'd love to hear what Joe Sacco's strongest traits as a coach are. What does he do really well?
He pisses you off. And on somedays that's good enough for me, even though I love ya bro, your hate on for him is pretty strong. As for his specific traits, I still think he's about as even keeled a coach as you are going to find. He won't raz the ref's even on a bad night...he might acknowledge they had a tough night but that's about it. He's not out there screaming they should have another freaking doughnut. He'll also limit ice time of star players who aren't producing and give more icetime to third and fourth liners who are jumping at the bit. This can piss some off, but it gives a lot of incentive to folks like Olver, McGinn, Downie, Jones who could/should be third liners to put forth the effort to stay on the top lines. It also means he's not giving a free pass to Duchene, Mueller or in the past Stewart or Gally. He's benched pretty much every d-man we've had whether it was as a healthy scratch or during the game. He's pretty even about it...and I respect that. This is a young team and they need a task-minder. Also, from interviews and bits I hear about the players, he's done this in a way that doesn't make them hate him for it...they get it. That's key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Okay, since you seem to have missed the other 20 times I've said this, here it is:

1. He has been handed the youngest team in the league with the lowest payroll in the league three years running, made the playoffs once, and nearly made the playoffs this year. The only time he missed and bottomed out was an injury-riddled season that saw his prima-donna goalie essentially give up on the team when he wasn't given an extension. That has to count for something.

2. He took the PK from dead last to 12th in the league

3. He gets at least some credit for helping develop Ryan O'Reilly into a premier two-way forward. He should also get credit for helping develop Erik Johnson into a (potentially) premier defenseman.

Do I have a magic crystal ball that allows me to peer into the locker room and practices and see exactly what he's doing right? No. But neither do you, and I'm not entirely certain what has you so convinced he's doing everything wrong.

Again, not convinced he's the coach long-term for this squad, and given the fickle nature of coaching in this league (9 coaches have been turfed so far this season alone, with likely 3 more coming) he probably won't be. But why does he get the blame for this team's failures and doesn't get credit for its successes?

My biggest complaint about Sacco is the divisional record. Inexcusable and must change for next season or I will jump back on the FIRE SACCO bandwagon with the rest of you. I definitely want this team to succeed next year, but ownership/management has to put their coach in a position to succeed. They have made steps toward that goal, but more must be done.
Or there's this...In keeping with Av-merican's point of view...The AVs really need to spend a bit more than a few thousand dollars above the cap floor to compete for a Cup. Seriously...youngest team plus lowest payroll does not equal making the playoffs...even with Toe Blake behind the bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
We're gonna laugh at this thread (and the one some dummy started at the beginning of the year..."FIRE SACCO") in a few years when Sacco leads this team to a Stanley Cup win.
I'm not convinced he's the guy Bubba...Would absolutely love it if he was but unfortunately I think ownership will get in the way with payroll considerations and prevent this current core from getting to that point. I don't care what coach you put in...I believe the players on the ice are much more important than the coach behind the bench. It is true that certain coaches can overcome certain roster issues but still...no coach can overcome a team that won't add quality pieces either through trades or free-agency. I'm not saying this team won't or hasn't...but I am saying that from where the AVs sit (on the putting greens,) looking up at teams still playing they have a long ways to go...and unfortunately coaches are the first to be axed.

expatriated_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 02:50 AM
  #180
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 15,539
vCash: 500
I think everyone's playing too much this youngest and cheapest team. Even, If we are youngest and cheapest, we are not bad team at all! I think this team NEEDS to make playoffs next year and with right signings in summer it's more than possible.

Colorado Avalanche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 03:17 AM
  #181
Pirate Deadpool
Sacco must go
 
Pirate Deadpool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 2,173
vCash: 130
What if the pens get swept and Bylsma is available? Ok wishful thinking, but what if it happened? Coaches could get fired for not getting out of the first round and if a good coach does get fired, the avs will have looked stupid for not waiting and missing out on a much better coach.

Pirate Deadpool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 03:41 AM
  #182
PAZ
.
 
PAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,473
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by The U View Post
What if the pens get swept and Bylsma is available? Ok wishful thinking, but what if it happened? Coaches could get fired for not getting out of the first round and if a good coach does get fired, the avs will have looked stupid for not waiting and missing out on a much better coach.
As much as i'd love for that to happen, there would be quite a few teams calling for him and I doubt the Avs were his #1 choice. I also doubt the Pens would fire him, especially when they see whats left in the coaches pool right now.

PAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 09:22 AM
  #183
Bender
TheHockeyProspector
 
Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,949
vCash: 7658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Okay, since you seem to have missed the other 20 times I've said this, here it is:

1. He has been handed the youngest team in the league with the lowest payroll in the league three years running, made the playoffs once, and nearly made the playoffs this year. The only time he missed and bottomed out was an injury-riddled season that saw his prima-donna goalie essentially give up on the team when he wasn't given an extension. That has to count for something.

2. He took the PK from dead last to 12th in the league

3. He gets at least some credit for helping develop Ryan O'Reilly into a premier two-way forward. He should also get credit for helping develop Erik Johnson into a (potentially) premier defenseman.

Do I have a magic crystal ball that allows me to peer into the locker room and practices and see exactly what he's doing right? No. But neither do you, and I'm not entirely certain what has you so convinced he's doing everything wrong.

Again, not convinced he's the coach long-term for this squad, and given the fickle nature of coaching in this league (9 coaches have been turfed so far this season alone, with likely 3 more coming) he probably won't be. But why does he get the blame for this team's failures and doesn't get credit for its successes?

My biggest complaint about Sacco is the divisional record. Inexcusable and must change for next season or I will jump back on the FIRE SACCO bandwagon with the rest of you. I definitely want this team to succeed next year, but ownership/management has to put their coach in a position to succeed. They have made steps toward that goal, but more must be done.
1] I can't say you're wrong here and yeah, FOR SURE, it's a challenge. I only go by what I SEE on the ice when I watch the games and despite all of the supposed issues that some of you may have with Payroll and Age [I only really measure talent...the amount of money being made by a player is actually irrelevant] I see just way too many silly mistakes over the scope of his tenure as coach to just give him a pass because we have the yougest team and lowest payroll. Oh and by the way, if the Avs had made the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed in each of the past 3 years but he had been coaching like this, I'd STILL be *****in' about it.

2] The Avs revamped their defense corps AND both goaltenders. Surely that might of had a bit on an impact as well? You can't have it both ways. It cannot be the players fault because of their age and salary when they don't perform well in a certain area and only the coach to congratulate when they do.

3] Sure, he should get some credit for giving O'Reilly the necessary ice time to establish himself as a very good top 6 forward. [Should O'Reilly also get some credit too? ] I even mentioned in another post a while back that I was pretty sure that it was one of his mandates for this season, given to him by management. [Find out what kind of player we have in O'Reilly...hell, that would have been one, if I were in charge if only to figure out how to move forward this summer] I'm not saying it was the wrong move but it certainly did come at the expense of reducing the ice time of Stastny and Duchene who both looked lost at times the first half of the season.

-> The divisional record demonstrates how easily other teams who have seen us play the most were able to counteract our strategies (if any) and take the play to us. I rarely saw any adjustments during the games to counter what our divisional opponents were bringing...it was just more of the same and hope for the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
We're gonna laugh at this thread (and the one some dummy started at the beginning of the year..."FIRE SACCO") in a few years when Sacco leads this team to a Stanley Cup win.
Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
I don't doubt that one bit. But Sacco's very inexperienced in the X's and O's, and it shows with how poorly our team did generating good scoring chances off of anything other than rebounds and deflections of perimeter shots when they had possession in the zone. Stastny's line was really the only one that did well in that respect and even that only after Jones got put back on his wing and McGinn was added for the other side. While you can argue that guys at this level should be able to figure that out themselves, we've got a lot of young players still learning what'll work in the NHL and what won't and having someone who would be able to teach them better stratagems for generating chances would benefit the team a lot.
This. I really don't like the "he's getting better" comments because if you're a REAL NHL coach, then this is the stuff you should just KNOW and not be learning as you go on the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
He pisses you off. And on somedays that's good enough for me, even though I love ya bro, your hate on for him is pretty strong. As for his specific traits, I still think he's about as even keeled a coach as you are going to find. He won't raz the ref's even on a bad night...he might acknowledge they had a tough night but that's about it. He's not out there screaming they should have another freaking doughnut. He'll also limit ice time of star players who aren't producing and give more icetime to third and fourth liners who are jumping at the bit. This can piss some off, but it gives a lot of incentive to folks like Olver, McGinn, Downie, Jones who could/should be third liners to put forth the effort to stay on the top lines. It also means he's not giving a free pass to Duchene, Mueller or in the past Stewart or Gally. He's benched pretty much every d-man we've had whether it was as a healthy scratch or during the game. He's pretty even about it...and I respect that. This is a young team and they need a task-minder. Also, from interviews and bits I hear about the players, he's done this in a way that doesn't make them hate him for it...they get it. That's key.
Hey I agree with you on that point. He really is even-keeled and doesn't appear to get rattled. I think I would have decapitated some refs after the 7th game where the Avs didn't get a single power play but he kept his cool. [I hope THAT'S not one of the reasons the refs kept sticking it to us though] I also agree with you about the ice time and going with who's playing well during a particular game.

Yes, he is a task-minder and that's what this team NEEDED but I don't necessarily believe that they still need that going forward. They are ready to take another step forward but unfortunately, it's not going to be with this guy. As I mentioned in my other message, be prepared for them to stay at this level or worse until someone is brought in that can make in-game adjustments to counter their rivals. "Skate harder...play on your toes"....can only take you so far.

I'll only say one last thing about this, since it just seems to be going in circles. When the Avs finally DO decide to part ways with this guy and bring in a REAL COACH (not Granato*) this team WILL ABSOLUTELY TAKE OFF and be world beaters. You can bank on it. I am one of the few in the minority who believe that the Avs are better than they've shown this season and can already be much better than they showed this year. [let's say 4th or 5th in the conference with a real coach]

[*imagine if Lefebvre left and the Avs re-hired Granatool as an assistant AGAIN??? ]

Bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 12:44 PM
  #184
cyberfan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: B.C. Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Okay, since you seem to have missed the other 20 times I've said this, here it is:

1. He has been handed the youngest team in the league with the lowest payroll in the league three years running, made the playoffs once, and nearly made the playoffs this year. The only time he missed and bottomed out was an injury-riddled season that saw his prima-donna goalie essentially give up on the team when he wasn't given an extension. That has to count for something.

2. He took the PK from dead last to 12th in the league

3. He gets at least some credit for helping develop Ryan O'Reilly into a premier two-way forward. He should also get credit for helping develop Erik Johnson into a (potentially) premier defenseman.

Do I have a magic crystal ball that allows me to peer into the locker room and practices and see exactly what he's doing right? No. But neither do you, and I'm not entirely certain what has you so convinced he's doing everything wrong.

Again, not convinced he's the coach long-term for this squad, and given the fickle nature of coaching in this league (9 coaches have been turfed so far this season alone, with likely 3 more coming) he probably won't be. But why does he get the blame for this team's failures and doesn't get credit for its successes?

My biggest complaint about Sacco is the divisional record. Inexcusable and must change for next season or I will jump back on the FIRE SACCO bandwagon with the rest of you. I definitely want this team to succeed next year, but ownership/management has to put their coach in a position to succeed. They have made steps toward that goal, but more must be done.
Good post. With regard to the divisional record, I'd like to add that we were 6-1-1 against the NW in our last 8 games so he might have turned the corner on that as well.

Is he the coach that can take us to the SC, I really doubt it but I think he deserves one more year to see what he has got in him. He is learning as well.

cyberfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.