HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Arizona Coyotes
Notices

Prospects-Major Junior (CHL), NCAA, Europe

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-10-2012, 08:26 AM
  #626
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubba Jenkins View Post
Thanks to winning the division, we are looking at drafting in the 22-26 range, depending on the last two rounds of the playoffs. What are the names you guys are excited around there?
There are teams that are going to jump on some forwards early and this is going to push some prominent D names down the board.

I was actually hoping Ceci would drop to us after watching him play recently. That being said he ended up 6th on Central Scouting's list which doesn't mean much given that Central Scouting is more viewed as a cheat sheet on potential names but I don't see him falling into to the 20's. I think less heralded guys like Finn, Koekkock, Pouliot, and Maata are names we may have to look at if they are the BPA according to our list.

Our Director of Scouting is going to be pushing for players with hockey sense. You're already seeing that with some of free agent signings this spring. Furthermore Rick Knickle is the guy who drafted physical players like Hartnell, Weber, Tootoo, etc. He's based out of Vancouver which means that you'll likely see us lean to the WHL on selections. Again, this is what you are seeing in our free agent list this spring.

In terms of the potential forward group. Assuming the high end talent is off the table and given that we will be selecting in the 20's I think we're into the 3rd or 4th tier group of players. Potentially a guy like Girgensons may drop but I think you can likely cross Teravinen (huge push up the rankings lately), Colberg, Aberg off the list by the time our selection comes. Gaunce is a guy who might drop but I suspect someone will jump on him and the big winger Wilson early.

What's that leave for us? Potentially one of the skilled guys (ie Aberg or as said previously Girgensons) drops to us. Personally, I think we need to be prepared for more of a two way player in a guy like Scissons, Matteau, Suter, etc. DiGuseppe is another player who plays at Michigan in the NCAA with Chris Brown. He has first line skills as well and rumor has it he wants to play out his college eligibility which means he should be available at our pick. One sleeper name that I'm going to toss out there is a player out of Seattle who isn't ranked in the first round. Brandon Trook was a standout at the CHL Top Prospects game who plays in cellar dweller Seattle. Points weren't there so but I think I'd like to see Phoenix take him in the 2nd round. Of course we have also locked into some players from Prince Albert. I believe we wanted Mark McNeil to drop to us last year and took Murphy after that failed to materialize. We took Harrison Roupp in the 3rd round and we recently signed C Justin Maylan to a AHL tryout contract for the balance of the season. Antoher C Mike Winther is in the top 25 North American skaters according to Central Scouting.


Last edited by hbk: 04-10-2012 at 08:36 AM.
hbk is online now  
Old
04-10-2012, 01:43 PM
  #627
Blubba Jenkins
Staying Faithful
 
Blubba Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Viktor Tikhonov, @phoenixcoyotes prospect RFA, who spent this season in Russia, says he will try to break into the NHL again this summer.
-Dmitry Chesnokov

Blubba Jenkins is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #628
PPD7952
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 256
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PPD7952 Send a message via MSN to PPD7952 Send a message via Yahoo to PPD7952
This is good news about Viktor. He has a good chance, since developing his offensive game, of being a top 9 forward for this team.

PPD7952 is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 03:29 PM
  #629
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Want nothing to do with Hertl and his lack of speed. Girgensons intangibles are off the charts. Would love to have the chance to take him.
In five years, theyll be asking how in the world Hertl didn't go top ten.

rt is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 03:32 PM
  #630
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
I keep reading that he is average to below average, but has good possession skills.

....

Anyone know who was responsible for drafting Hanzal? I'd say that worked out well.
Do you see the irony?

rt is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 03:50 PM
  #631
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Do you see the irony?
No, because that's exactly what I was aiming for. Whomever was responsible for projecting Hanzal's success would probably be THE guy to ask about Hertl. And no, there's no guarantee that in five years people will be raving about him. It's still a total crap-shoot. Drop the shtick.

XX is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #632
Gwyddbwyll
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 10,525
vCash: 500
Hanzal is everything I was expecting from Jakub Koreis. A big centre who could play against anyone effectively with some skill too. Yet one turned out to be a huge bust despite being the most "NHL-ready" prospect. Supposedly Hanzal wasnt doing so well just after he was drafted either. Seems the difference is their hockey sense, their ability to think the game.

Gwyddbwyll is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 05:03 PM
  #633
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Seems the difference is their hockey sense, their ability to think the game.
Some of this is innate, but a lot of it has to do with the people surrounding him. If he doesn't make it to Red Deer to be coached by Brent Sutter, who knows where he ends up? Would he be as good defensively? So much of development is reliant about the environment and the coaches. It has to be positive. It doesn't matter if you are extremely skilled and ahead of your peers. A bad situation can ruin all of that, like Brule. I don't really believe in innate talent. Talent is just a word we use to explain away all of the hard work that goes into what these guys do. They need ice time but perhaps even more importantly they need a coach that can help them grow. Repetition doesn't make you better.

Hanzal is a quality guy, got lots of ice time and excellent coaching, came in and got lots of NHL time with the confidence of the coaches. Yandle goes to Moncton, plays under Ted Nolan, they win the memorial cup. All upward trends. Boedker, on the other hand, gets rushed and continually gets yanked up and down. We've only recently seen him move into a top 6 role and gain the confidence of Tippett. Low and behold, he's playing some of the best hockey of his short career.

How you attribute success depends on which school of thought you come from. I'm inclined to believe that no matter how skilled or driven a player is, they need the right environment and people around them to succeed. As we move forward (hopefully) with a solid NHL roster and winning environment, we can look forward to more of these guys succeeding.

XX is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 07:11 PM
  #634
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
No, because that's exactly what I was aiming for. Whomever was responsible for projecting Hanzal's success would probably be THE guy to ask about Hertl. And no, there's no guarantee that in five years people will be raving about him. It's still a total crap-shoot. Drop the shtick.
From the last week of December...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Tomas Hertl looked fantastic against a very weak Denmark team. If he can look half as good against the Canadian powerhouse tonight, he will be one everyone's radar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Hertl was solid defensively and maintained a physical element to his game. No offensive zone chances.

The Czech Republic was badly out coached. They shortened their bench to six forwards right from the start and they played the night before. It took about thirty minutes for them to be totally gassed and completely overwhelmed. That head coach needs to be replaced. That was a coaching loss more than anything. Jiri Fischer looks ready to take over to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I've been really impressed with Tomas Hertl. Offensively, defensively, and physically impressive. Big bodied kid, undeniable skill, great on the back check, likes to mix it up physically and still looks like he's fourteen years old. I doubt he shaves. He's already lighting up the top men's league over in the Czech Republic, and he's still got a lot of time to even further develop.

He's not a fast skater, but he's excellent positionally, which I think is more important.

Reminds me quite a bit of Martin Hanzal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I was much more impressed with Tomas Hertl than I was with any draft eligible prospect at the U20s. I am excited for the MemCup where hopefully I can check out a few more players.

Right now, I like Aberg who is tearing up the 2nd best league in the world. I also like Hertl who is doing awesome in the top Czech league and looked fantastic against the elite of his peer group in the WJC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Faksa was a total passenger in the WJCs. Very poor showing. I realize it's just one tournament but Hertl looked worlds better. Like Malkin versus Pyatt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I didn't see skating as a strength for either kid. It's just one tourny, though. Maybe Faksa had food poisoning, or something. He looked like it.
A little statistical analysis...

Hertl is the number one scorer of players under twenty in the top Czech league. He had 25pts in 38 games. The next closest player had 18 in 47. Dmirtij Jaskin, who was a high 2nd rounder last year and had a lot of first round hype, has had only 12pts in 63 games played in that league.

He's also top ten in players under 25. He's only 18.

This is for historical reference...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBakester66 View Post
This is a fun one, let's run some comparables. Shall we?

Czech (and Czechoslovakian) Extraliga 17 Year Old Records all-time.
There is a mix of career Europeans and career NHLers on this list. I'll just who some highlights. These are guys with more than 20 GP in Czech Extraliga (or Czechoslovkia), ranked by pts/gp.
Name Season GP G A PTS PTS/GP
Ronald Petrovicky 1991-92 46 25 36 61 1.32
Jaromir Jagr 1989-90 51 30 29 59 1.16
Robert Reichel 1988-89 44 23 25 48 1.09
Jiri Hudler 2001-02 46 15 31 46 1.00
Ivan Hlinka 1967-68 32 15 14 29 0.91
David Vyborny 1992-93 52 20 24 44 0.85
Petr Klima 1982-83 44 19 17 36 0.82
Bobby Holik 1988-89 36 15 10 25 0.69
Tomas Hertl 2011-12 38 12 13 25 0.65
Vladimir Ruzicka 1980-81 41 12 13 25 0.61
Pavol Demitra 1992-93 46 10 18 28 0.61
Miroslav Satan 1992-93 38 11 6 17 0.45
Milan Hejduk 1993-94 22 6 3 9 0.41


That's a pretty damn good list of company to be in. Almost all of those guys had NHL seasons at above a pt/gp. Some had long runs of 5 years or more at that level.

Comparables? Try NHL all-star.

I should note that all records from 1992-93 and prior are from the Czechoslovakian Elite League which was more difficult to play in than the strictly Czech league that began in 1993-94. Jiri Hudler is the only somewhat recent comparable.

As far as going to the CHL, I'm fairly split on that. Guys like Alex Radulov have proven that there's nothing wrong with spending one year in the CHL where you still have some space and time to get acquainted with the smaller ice surface, before heading to the AHL or NHL.

Demitra seems like the farest comparable to me, and he spent 4 years in the minors (AHL/IHL) before he was given a real chance at the NHL level. But he was at a pt/gp in the minors as an 18 year old. Extremely impressive. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hertl do the same, except he wouldn't be eligible for the AHL until his 19 year old season. Perhaps one year in the CHL would do him some good.

Thoughts?
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...=882856&page=2


Last edited by rt: 04-13-2012 at 07:33 PM.
rt is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 10:08 PM
  #635
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
This is for historical reference...
Except the historical comparison doesn't support your position. The Czech league has changed is simply not the same, even from the time Hanzal was there. Seeing as how Petrovicky and Hudler outscored Hertl by a significant margin, I think the reference hurts more than it helps. Hudler, in all his splendor, was a late 2nd round pick. Funny enough, Satan and Demitra were also not 1st round picks (5th and 9th, respectively) or even on teams' radar. Hejduk played four seasons in the Czech league before even coming over. Judging a kid based solely off of stats at an arbitrarily picked age is silly and doesn't provide a valid frame of reference. Your direct observations are much more relevant.

Hertl may not even be available where we pick. Or Aberg. What then?

XX is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 10:29 PM
  #636
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Except the historical comparison doesn't support your position. The Czech league has changed is simply not the same, even from the time Hanzal was there. Seeing as how Petrovicky and Hudler outscored Hertl by a significant margin, I think the reference hurts more than it helps. Hudler, in all his splendor, was a late 2nd round pick. Funny enough, Satan and Demitra were also not 1st round picks (5th and 9th, respectively) or even on teams' radar. Hejduk played four seasons in the Czech league before even coming over. Judging a kid based solely off of stats at an arbitrarily picked age is silly and doesn't provide a valid frame of reference. Your direct observations are much more relevant.

Hertl may not even be available where we pick. Or Aberg. What then?
I was at the Hudler draft. He was largely perceived by the "experts" to be a potential top 10 selection. I correctly called the Koreis selection by the Coyotes and then was taken back when we took Eager with our second first rounder. I boo'd loudly outright when we overlooked Hudler for a 3rd time and selected goalie David LeNeveu.

hbk is online now  
Old
04-13-2012, 10:50 PM
  #637
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
I was at the Hudler draft. He was largely perceived by the "experts" to be a potential top 10 selection. I correctly called the Koreis selection by the Coyotes and then was taken back when we took Eager with our second first rounder. I boo'd loudly outright when we overlooked Hudler for a 3rd time and selected goalie David LeNeveu.
Hertl is the new Hanzal.

Hudon is the new Hudler.

I sure hope those two are our first two picks. I'd be over the moon.

rt is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 10:53 PM
  #638
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Except the historical comparison doesn't support your position. The Czech league has changed is simply not the same, even from the time Hanzal was there. Seeing as how Petrovicky and Hudler outscored Hertl by a significant margin, I think the reference hurts more than it helps. Hudler, in all his splendor, was a late 2nd round pick. Funny enough, Satan and Demitra were also not 1st round picks (5th and 9th, respectively) or even on teams' radar. Hejduk played four seasons in the Czech league before even coming over. Judging a kid based solely off of stats at an arbitrarily picked age is silly and doesn't provide a valid frame of reference. Your direct observations are much more relevant.

Hertl may not even be available where we pick. Or Aberg. What then?
I'm not sure I understand your point. Who cares where those extremely effective NHL players were drafted?

rt is offline  
Old
04-13-2012, 11:06 PM
  #639
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Who cares where those extremely effective NHL players were drafted?
No one, including those who are seriously looking at Hertl.

XX is offline  
Old
04-15-2012, 10:24 PM
  #640
Blubba Jenkins
Staying Faithful
 
Blubba Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Now that Portland is out, I hope Gormley wins Game 7 on Tuesday

Blubba Jenkins is offline  
Old
04-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #641
Kaizen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Prince George B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
Gormley will be playing the Memorial Cup regardless of how far Shawinigan advances as they are the host team.

It would be better for the team to get there the hard way or at least come close.

Kaizen is offline  
Old
04-15-2012, 11:58 PM
  #642
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Can't wait to DVR the memorial cup.

rt is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 12:05 AM
  #643
Blubba Jenkins
Staying Faithful
 
Blubba Jenkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 3,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
Gormley will be playing the Memorial Cup regardless of how far Shawinigan advances as they are the host team.

It would be better for the team to get there the hard way or at least come close.
I forgot about that.

Blubba Jenkins is offline  
Old
04-16-2012, 08:40 AM
  #644
ducky
Registered User
 
ducky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Home of Kokanee Beer
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk View Post
I was at the Hudler draft. He was largely perceived by the "experts" to be a potential top 10 selection. I correctly called the Koreis selection by the Coyotes and then was taken back when we took Eager with our second first rounder. I boo'd loudly outright when we overlooked Hudler for a 3rd time and selected goalie David LeNeveu.
I was absolutely sure we would pick Alexander Steen with one of our two 1st round picks that year.

I was hoping for Steen and Cam Ward. We took neither

ducky is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 08:51 PM
  #645
Kaizen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Prince George B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
I guess Gormley & the Cataractes will be well rested for the Mem Cup. Shawinigan loses Game 7 in their series against Chicoutimi.

Kaizen is offline  
Old
04-17-2012, 09:33 PM
  #646
hbk
Registered User
 
hbk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,536
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizen View Post
I guess Gormley & the Cataractes will be well rested for the Mem Cup. Shawinigan loses Game 7 in their series against Chicoutimi.
Shawinigan is hosting Memorial Cup. His Junior days are not quite over yet.

hbk is online now  
Old
04-17-2012, 10:23 PM
  #647
Kaizen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Prince George B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
He should be well rested.

Edit: Domingue's junior season is done though - Halifax came back from 3-0 down in the series.


Last edited by Kaizen: 04-17-2012 at 10:29 PM.
Kaizen is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 01:25 AM
  #648
OOEEL
Registered User
 
OOEEL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Arizona
Country: United States
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
Brendan Shinnimin got the primary assist on Tri City's first goal of the game, and went on to score the game winner with about four minutes left in the game to lead the Americans to a game 7 win over Spokane. He now has 6 goals and 12 assists in 11 games and is a +12.

Tri City will play the Portland Winterhawks in the WHL Western Conference Finals.

Am I the only one who's excited about this kid? Now admittedly I buy into the hype of players(I got an OEL jersey the day they got the name plates in the team shop, and I have an Andy Miele jersey), but I feel like there aren't many players that post 152 points in 80 games in juniors and disappear at the next level. But I'm also fairly new to following prospects.

Thanks guys!

OOEEL is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 09:48 AM
  #649
mitch27
Registered User
 
mitch27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OOEEL View Post
Brendan Shinnimin got the primary assist on Tri City's first goal of the game, and went on to score the game winner with about four minutes left in the game to lead the Americans to a game 7 win over Spokane. He now has 6 goals and 12 assists in 11 games and is a +12.

Tri City will play the Portland Winterhawks in the WHL Western Conference Finals.

Am I the only one who's excited about this kid? Now admittedly I buy into the hype of players(I got an OEL jersey the day they got the name plates in the team shop, and I have an Andy Miele jersey), but I feel like there aren't many players that post 152 points in 80 games in juniors and disappear at the next level. But I'm also fairly new to following prospects.

Thanks guys!
5'9" is the only thing that worries me. Admittedly, I've never seen him play though.

mitch27 is offline  
Old
04-19-2012, 10:02 AM
  #650
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 41,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OOEEL View Post
Brendan Shinnimin got the primary assist on Tri City's first goal of the game, and went on to score the game winner with about four minutes left in the game to lead the Americans to a game 7 win over Spokane. He now has 6 goals and 12 assists in 11 games and is a +12.

Tri City will play the Portland Winterhawks in the WHL Western Conference Finals.

Am I the only one who's excited about this kid? Now admittedly I buy into the hype of players(I got an OEL jersey the day they got the name plates in the team shop, and I have an Andy Miele jersey), but I feel like there aren't many players that post 152 points in 80 games in juniors and disappear at the next level. But I'm also fairly new to following prospects.

Thanks guys!
There actually quite a few players like that. Justin Azevedo had like 170 in 80ish games a few years back. Still in the ahl and probably for good. He was also a little guy. Key difference is that Azevedo is also a poor skater, on top of being very small. Amazing hands. Amazing shot. Literally nothing else. From what I've read Shinnimin can skate and plays with an edge. So that's encouraging.

Then again, the same was said about Colin Long. We drafted him, and he can't stick in the AHL, despite putting up like 120 in 80 in the Dub one year.

If you want to be encouraged, check out Adam Henrique. Big junior scorer that most people figured wouldn't translate to the NHL. He was in the ROY race most of this season.

rt is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.