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COG's Lieberman calls for demonstration against Coyote deal

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Old
04-17-2012, 05:16 PM
  #51
thom
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In less than a week more than 3 million Albertans will be voting.Guess what the Wild rose party will win a right wing party similar to the tea party.Are they not Canadian?Many of the canadian forces come from right wing segments of Alberta and else where are they not Canadian?

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04-17-2012, 05:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Your post is short sighted. The long term effect of losing the Coyotes at WestGate will cost the city more in the long run.

I think this will end well for Coyotes fans. The rumbling of positive momentum here locally is ramping up again. The fans are just waiting for the final announcement, we will breathe a collective sigh of relief and let the healing begin.

Dogs rule
You drank that cool aid eh?

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04-17-2012, 05:23 PM
  #53
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You drank that cool aid eh?
Yep. I haven't seen anywhere that Scruggs doesn't feel that way anymore.

No tennant, no money. Tennant=more money. At least it's something coming in until they gain the fanbase back and grow it.

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04-17-2012, 05:25 PM
  #54
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In less than a week more than 3 million Albertans will be voting.Guess what the Wild rose party will win a right wing party similar to the tea party.Are they not Canadian?Many of the canadian forces come from right wing segments of Alberta and else where are they not Canadian?
And yet,

Quote:
"When our members elected me they knew they were electing a candidate that was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage," Smith said Tuesday at an all-candidates forum in her Highwood riding in Okotoks.

"The only way we're going to be able to become a mainstream, big-tent conservative party capable of forming government is to focus on the issues that matter to Albertans. If I am elected premier, a Wildrose government will not be legislating in areas of morality."



Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/201...#ixzz1sL56bfB5

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04-17-2012, 05:41 PM
  #55
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Yep. I haven't seen anywhere that Scruggs doesn't feel that way anymore.

No tennant, no money. Tennant=more money. At least it's something coming in until they gain the fanbase back and grow it.
Good luck with that.

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04-17-2012, 05:47 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Yep. I haven't seen anywhere that Scruggs doesn't feel that way anymore.

No tennant, no money. Tennant=more money. At least it's something coming in until they gain the fanbase back and grow it.

Yeah, but the CoG would be spending 20 million bucks a year (give or take a few million depending on the year) to have the NHL run the arena. Are you sure that's more sensible than paying a decent arena manager much less money to actually book events there? Because it doesn't look like the NHL has made any effort to book anything other than the Coyotes there. For example, a place like KC doesn't even want an NHL team (one that presumably would draw better and generate higher revenues than the Coyotes) because they make more money without one. How do you know Jobing.com wouldn't generate greater revenues without the Yotes?

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04-17-2012, 05:49 PM
  #57
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You drank that cool aid eh?
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Originally Posted by FTDD View Post
Good luck with that.
Thanks! That's mighty nice of you. I appreciate the well wishes!

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04-17-2012, 05:54 PM
  #58
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Yeah, but the CoG would be spending 20 million bucks a year (give or take a few million depending on the year) to have the NHL run the arena. Are you sure that's more sensible than paying a decent arena manager much less money to actually book events there? Because it doesn't look like the NHL has made any effort to book anything other than the Coyotes there. For example, a place like KC doesn't even want an NHL team (one that presumably would draw better and generate higher revenues than the Coyotes) because they make more money without one. How do you know Jobing.com wouldn't generate greater revenues without the Yotes?
How about this? Obviously there is a lot of room for improvement for filling dates at the arena

Coyotes + bookings at the Job + tax revenue that is generated from the better mangement = win for Glendale AND our Yotes.

I know that simplifies it tremendously but the Coyotes crowds are a factor and will be even more of a factor when the attendance increases.

I bolded above because your statement answers part of the question. the second bold is just to point out your bias and I assume it was a dig. There is no way to prove that point either way but I doubt a city that "doesn't want and NHL team" would generate more than a city that has one. But we are both guessing aren't we?


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04-17-2012, 06:14 PM
  #59
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The first bold refers to the fact that the NHL doesn't appear to have made any effort to book anything other than the Coyotes. They've just taken the CoG's money and tried to plug a hole with it. I guess if Greg Jamison is actually a serious bidder and not a ruse by the league, he could probably make a better go of booking the arena than the NHL with a little effort.

The second bold just refers to the fact that the Yotes have dismal attendance and very low ticket prices. Would (will?) take them years to rectify that, whereas a relocated or expansion team in KC would presumably draw well for the first few years if only due to novelty.

I pretty much can prove that, by the way, as the Mayor of Kansas City has said he doesn't want the NHL blocking off 41 dates a year in his arena because they're already more profitable without the NHL.

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04-17-2012, 06:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Yep. I haven't seen anywhere that Scruggs doesn't feel that way anymore.

No tennant, no money. Tennant=more money. At least it's something coming in until they gain the fanbase back and grow it.
Your math is a bit off. The correct formula is No Tennant= No Money, Tennant=Lose More Money...

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04-17-2012, 06:38 PM
  #61
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Your math is a bit off. The correct formula is No Tennant= No Money, Tennant=Lose More Money...
LOL. I don't see it but oh well.

Free board!

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04-17-2012, 06:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Your post is short sighted. The long term effect of losing the Coyotes at WestGate will cost the city more in the long run.

I think this will end well for Coyotes fans. The rumbling of positive momentum here locally is ramping up again. The fans are just waiting for the final announcement, we will breathe a collective sigh of relief and let the healing begin.

Dogs rule
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Care to explain that first part? I fail to see the evidence illustrating your "fact".
My fact is simple.

And i'm just putting out of nowhere numbers to illustrate it. All numbers are average.

A hockey game cost = 1M
A hockey game revenue = 500k (in a far from full arena)
A music/other sports event/venue cost = 1M
A music/other sports event/venue revenue = 1.5M

41 home games + preseason + whatever other hockey event days : 60 (just a number again).

So...

Hockey cost for a year : 60M
Hockey revenue for a year : 30M

Other events cost for those same 60 days : 60M
Other events revenue : 90M

Now, let me be honest, I don't think you will replace 60 days of hockey with 60 days of other shows and venues. But even then, you could replace only 1/3rd of it, which is 20 days, and have better financial situation.

Other events 20 days costs : 20M
Other events 20 days revenue : 30M

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04-17-2012, 07:37 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
My fact is simple.

And i'm just putting out of nowhere numbers to illustrate it. All numbers are average.

A hockey game cost = 1M
A hockey game revenue = 500k (in a far from full arena)
A music/other sports event/venue cost = 1M
A music/other sports event/venue revenue = 1.5M

41 home games + preseason + whatever other hockey event days : 60 (just a number again).

So...

Hockey cost for a year : 60M
Hockey revenue for a year : 30M

Other events cost for those same 60 days : 60M
Other events revenue : 90M

Now, let me be honest, I don't think you will replace 60 days of hockey with 60 days of other shows and venues. But even then, you could replace only 1/3rd of it, which is 20 days, and have better financial situation.

Other events 20 days costs : 20M
Other events 20 days revenue : 30M
You're not going to replace 20 dates that could otherwise be filled with hockey.

There are not many dates that you have to absolutely choose between hockey and a concert. You can just have the concert some time later in the week, or you can not schedule any hockey games during the time that said concert is only available.

In Phoenix's case, if they could replace 20 of the dates with concerts/monster truck rallies/High School Musical Tour, then it would make sense to let the Coyotes move.

But you are assuming that the Coyotes are actively preventing Jobing.com arena from booking other dates. Which is not necessarily true, because there is nothing preventing them from having both.

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04-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #64
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You're not going to replace 20 dates that could otherwise be filled with hockey.

There are not many dates that you have to absolutely choose between hockey and a concert. You can just have the concert some time later in the week, or you can not schedule any hockey games during the time that said concert is only available.

In Phoenix's case, if they could replace 20 of the dates with concerts/monster truck rallies/High School Musical Tour, then it would make sense to let the Coyotes move.

But you are assuming that the Coyotes are actively preventing Jobing.com arena from booking other dates. Which is not necessarily true, because there is nothing preventing them from having both.
Nothing is preventing the current arena managers (the NHL) from booking other dates. Based on their upcoming arena calendar they are doing a piss poor job of doing so. I suspect an experienced arena manager could do much better.

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04-17-2012, 08:50 PM
  #65
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Nothing is preventing the current arena managers (the NHL) from booking other dates. Based on their upcoming arena calendar they are doing a piss poor job of doing so. I suspect an experienced arena manager could do much better.
Am I reading too much into this, or is it an indication that they've given up on the Phoenix market? I mean, the NHL is supposedly looking for a local buyer, right? Wouldn't it make sense for the league to demonstrate that operating the arena in Glendale is a profitable venture? Seems like if they just take the city's money for two years and make little effort to book anything, that could be another indication that they've just been biding their time for the past two years until a buyer in another city is ready to go.

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04-17-2012, 09:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
My fact is simple.

And i'm just putting out of nowhere numbers to illustrate it. All numbers are average.

(...)
That's not a fact. "Jobing.com would make more money if they replaced Coyotes games with non-hockey events" is your assumption, and you illustrated what that assumption implies with numbers pulled out of nowhere (your words). I could pull numbers out of my ass and change each event type's profit margin to illustrate how Glendale would be better off keeping the Coyotes.. It still wouldn't be a fact.

edit -- watching the budget workshop right now and it seems I don't need to pull anything out of my ass, Colson already pulled some out of his.


Last edited by barneyg: 04-17-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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04-17-2012, 11:16 PM
  #67
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edit -- watching the budget workshop right now and it seems I don't need to pull anything out of my ass, Colson already pulled some out of his.
Like the fact that the city would be making 15.7M in tax revenue with the team but only 6.2M without...tho in this equation you need to subtract 20M per the city will be giving to Jamison so if the numbers are real it's moe like the city would be losing 4.3M a year with the team and making 6.2M without it. That's a big difference of roughly 10M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
You're not going to replace 20 dates that could otherwise be filled with hockey.

There are not many dates that you have to absolutely choose between hockey and a concert. You can just have the concert some time later in the week, or you can not schedule any hockey games during the time that said concert is only available.

In Phoenix's case, if they could replace 20 of the dates with concerts/monster truck rallies/High School Musical Tour, then it would make sense to let the Coyotes move.

But you are assuming that the Coyotes are actively preventing Jobing.com arena from booking other dates. Which is not necessarily true, because there is nothing preventing them from having both.
Basically your point proves mine. The problem is not the team, it is the market in the area.


Last edited by powerstuck: 04-18-2012 at 07:49 AM.
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04-18-2012, 07:34 AM
  #68
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Like the fact that the city would be making 15.7M in tax revenue with the team but only 6.2M without...tho in this equation you need to subtract 20M per the city will be giving to Jamison so if the numbers are real it's moe like the city would be losing 4.3M a year with the team and making 6.2M without it. That's a big difference of roughly 10M.
..still not a fact.

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04-18-2012, 09:07 AM
  #69
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..still not a fact.
It is a fact, those are numbers from the budget workshop last night though power's math is a bit off.

Glendale gets appox. $9m a year in revenue as the the result of the Coyotes being there. However they've been spending $25m a year to keep the Coyotes. That's a $16m/year deficit that the Coyotes are costing Glendale. Even if Glendale pays an arena management fee of $11m/year, they will still be running a deficit of $2m/year. No matter how you slice it, the the mere presence of the Phoenix Coyotes is costing the City of Glendale, and they are better off without the team...

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04-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #70
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Glendale gets appox. $9m a year in revenue as the the result of the Coyotes being there.
From what?

If the team moved, would any of that $9m in revenue remain in the city assuming it would be spent elsewhere in the city?

Or does that $9m come from an NHL team only?

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