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Phoenix XLVI: (Tre)living on a prayer

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Old
04-18-2012, 12:01 AM
  #626
KLu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by objectiveposter View Post
i guess jetsfan was right... this is all smoke and mirrors... jamison doesnt have the investors... hes another ice edge (with more credibility of running a franchise).. ultimately he will cave in to glendale demands (like lowering first year arena fee from 20 to 17) because at the end of the day its not his money hes risking....

if this truly is smoke and mirrors than the nhl should be ashamed of themselves putting glendale through this nonsense 3 years in a row wasting everyones time and money

im glad scruggs is finally calling beasley and the nhl on their bs.

and since the rumor of glendale giving 40 mill of the asking price are false... it means the investor group has to pay at least 140 mill for the team... aint gonna happen
Anyone thinks Miss. Scruggs started reading this thread a while a back and this explained how she changed her mind?


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04-18-2012, 12:02 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by KLu View Post
Anyone thinks Miss. Scruggs started reading this thread a while a back and this explained how she changed her mind?



Sure hope so.

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04-18-2012, 12:03 AM
  #628
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Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
This is what I am starting to think. The deal has probably been structured for months but GJ is having difficulties finding investors who can sustain losses for the foreseeable future.

The mention of other groups and individuals as purchasers of late was probably the NHL's call for people with financial wherewithal to come forward to help close the deal.

Maybe GJ has the $$$$, maybe GJ does not.
Now THAT I can believe.

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Old
04-18-2012, 12:36 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I think this hits the nail on the head.
If I was putting money on the result this year, I'd be putting cash down on PHX. It seems like everyone is motivated to keep the team in glendale at all costs.
Not everyone. Not all costs. Every plan thus far has apexed at a brick wall. No lack of trying, though some might say that "trying" is failure with good intentions.

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Is anyone else starting to admire Scruggs?
Nope. Just because she has just come out of the ether, doesn't mean she deserves any new found admiration.

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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
This Coyote stuff is nuts. A few pages ago I had my fellow Canadians saying "Maybe Kevin is right. The team is going to stay." Now...



I hate when stuff like this happens because my fellow Canadians get their hopes up.

A lot of us have been on the ride for a very long time. We are familiar with the terrain, and can anticipate all of the peaks and valleys. The newcomers are the ones that get rattled by the ride.

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04-18-2012, 05:13 AM
  #630
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A lot of us have been on the ride for a very long time. We are familiar with the terrain, and can anticipate all of the peaks and valleys. The newcomers are the ones that get rattled by the ride.
Too long. It's like a car accident that I can't look away from.

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04-18-2012, 06:33 AM
  #631
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I can't believe this phiasco is still going on. Just think, Scruggs could have accepted 50 million or asked for more from Balsillie and the NHL could have had a successful franchise somewhere in Southern Ontario making oodles of money to give to all those other money losing franchises in Buttman's wet dream division (or is it a conference?). What a modern tale of caution.

Right up there with "I did not have sex with that woman" is "We will not sell to Balsillie" or something to that effect is a quote for the ages. Classic cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

The money lost will never be recovered. New money will be diverted to cover old losses perhaps but so much waste just to spite one man. $100 million at least for Phoenix? More? More yet to come? They should rename the suburb suckersville.

And it still isn't over. Welcome to the real world Ms. Scruggs. I'll bet the good people of your city will remember this time with fondness. The NHL has certainly made a splash for the ages. Bush league.

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04-18-2012, 07:22 AM
  #632
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Boy this is getting tougher to follow by the minute.. LOL..... anyway seems the "lease agreement" has COG forking over 257M over the next 20 years.. or 25? whatever.

I didn't find any mention over the last 4-5 pages that the 40M up front payment by the COG to help buy the team is still on the table. Am I too believe GJ will pony up the 140M on his own?

Now.. has it been confirmed anywhere by anyone that the NHL has agreed to drop the sale price down to 140M and take the loss? Surely GB would have an idea if the BOG would accept this... Yes? No?

my head hurts.... I'm going back to bed.

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Old
04-18-2012, 07:41 AM
  #633
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Doesn't the City of Glendale have to give a weeks notice before bringing something to council?

If so, May 10th was when TNSE turned their attention to the Thrashers last year. A deal was done in principle by the 19th and an official announcement was made on the 31st. Following the same timeline, something needs to be brought forward by the 3rd to accommodate a relocation.

That is 15 days from now, so by tomorrow we could be down to our last '2 weeks.'

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04-18-2012, 07:45 AM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
Sounds like Lakehead Yale Sports Holdings has made a pitch to manage the arena and bring minor pro hockey to Glendale for 9 million.
So, the IEH gang goes from being saviors for the Coyotes to the "Plan B" that convinces the mayor to let the Coyotes go?

Irony...

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04-18-2012, 08:24 AM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Doesn't the City of Glendale have to give a weeks notice before bringing something to council?

If so, May 10th was when TNSE turned their attention to the Thrashers last year. A deal was done in principle by the 19th and an official announcement was made on the 31st. Following the same timeline, something needs to be brought forward by the 3rd to accommodate a relocation.

That is 15 days from now, so by tomorrow we could be down to our last '2 weeks.'
I can not reveal my sources but i know TNSE turned their attention to Atlanta before May of last year.

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04-18-2012, 08:27 AM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
I can't believe this phiasco is still going on. Just think, Scruggs could have accepted 50 million or asked for more from Balsillie and the NHL could have had a successful franchise somewhere in Southern Ontario making oodles of money to give to all those other money losing franchises in Buttman's wet dream division (or is it a conference?). What a modern tale of caution.

Right up there with "I did not have sex with that woman" is "We will not sell to Balsillie" or something to that effect is a quote for the ages. Classic cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

The money lost will never be recovered. New money will be diverted to cover old losses perhaps but so much waste just to spite one man. $100 million at least for Phoenix? More? More yet to come? They should rename the suburb suckersville.

And it still isn't over. Welcome to the real world Ms. Scruggs. I'll bet the good people of your city will remember this time with fondness. The NHL has certainly made a splash for the ages. Bush league.
No, not at all. If you look at the budget proposal, there's still an aggregate operating budget deficit of about $20 mm for the period 2014 - 2017. That however is predicated on general fund revenues jumping from $144 mm in 2013 to $176 mm in 2014, or an increase of 22%. If they don't realize that revenue increase, and that is a significant risk, then the deficit will be even larger.

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Old
04-18-2012, 08:31 AM
  #637
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If this NHL thing doesn't work out for the COG I have a monorail they might be interested in?


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Old
04-18-2012, 08:41 AM
  #638
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I particularly enjoyed when the Deputy City Manager claimed that the Coyotes presence would increase sales at the outlet mall by 40%. That was an amazing piece of governance.

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04-18-2012, 08:54 AM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
I can't believe this phiasco is still going on. Just think, Scruggs could have accepted 50 million or asked for more from Balsillie and the NHL could have had a successful franchise somewhere in Southern Ontario making oodles of money to give to all those other money losing franchises in Buttman's wet dream division (or is it a conference?). What a modern tale of caution.

Right up there with "I did not have sex with that woman" is "We will not sell to Balsillie" or something to that effect is a quote for the ages. Classic cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

The money lost will never be recovered. New money will be diverted to cover old losses perhaps but so much waste just to spite one man. $100 million at least for Phoenix? More? More yet to come? They should rename the suburb suckersville.

And it still isn't over. Welcome to the real world Ms. Scruggs. I'll bet the good people of your city will remember this time with fondness. The NHL has certainly made a splash for the ages. Bush league.
Yep. I know the CoG wishes they could go back and indicate to Baum they were throwing their weight behind Balsillie.

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04-18-2012, 08:56 AM
  #640
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Also, what happens if the Coyotes advance to the 2nd round and council votes 4-3 against keeping them? There's no way the NHL can keep up the smoke-and-mirrors to keep people interested in supporting this team in that situation, right?

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04-18-2012, 09:06 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Yep. I know the CoG wishes they could go back and indicate to Baum they were throwing their weight behind Balsillie.
I always knew the day would come where the CoG would regret not taking free money.

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04-18-2012, 09:27 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Also, what happens if the Coyotes advance to the 2nd round and council votes 4-3 against keeping them? There's no way the NHL can keep up the smoke-and-mirrors to keep people interested in supporting this team in that situation, right?
I honestly think the NHL will continue to lie (or, rather, give non-answers to direct questions) until the Coyotes are out of the playoffs -- but more likely until the playoffs are totally over.

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04-18-2012, 09:32 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
I hope that Phoenix doesn't move. The south is a real center of growth for the NHL and can be successful.
Phoenix is not in the South, it's in the Southwest. Please don't act as if Arizona is in any way relevant to what goes on in what is defined by most everyone as the South Region.

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Old
04-18-2012, 09:36 AM
  #644
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We all know Bettman is a chronic liar and that the NHL is hiding the truth from everyone of us. We all know they want the Coyotes to go deep in the playoffs as shown by the three-game suspension to Andrew Shaw and the non-call on Raffi Torres late hit on Maria Hossa.

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04-18-2012, 09:36 AM
  #645
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Heh, so the only guy in the running can't afford the team... but is trying to get a few breaks so he can afford it.
Wasn't that Hulsizer in a nutshell? We know he couldn't afford it due to the NHL kicking him out with St. Louis.

What the shell game the NHL are playing throughout this whole thing to stop their franchise values around the league from falling off a cliff.

Quote:
Colson: With team, #Glendale gets $15.7M in revenue/sales taxes from arena. Without #Coyotes, city makes only $6.5M.

Quote:
Colson says historical studies have shown #Coyotes generate 40 percent of sales taxes at Westgate City Center in #Glendale.

Tanger strip mall is included in the 40% sales taxes figure.
So question on this, is the peripheral effects of Coyotes games at Jobing.com Arena accounted for in that 6.5 million dollar figure? For example, if a group of guys eat dinner at Westgate before going to a Coyotes game, is that in the 6.5 or not?

If not, you need to know how large that 40% sales taxes number is. And whether it's profitable for the city to give out the arena management fee depends on:

(15.7M - 6.5M) - (Arena Management Fee) + (0.40 * Westgate City Center Sales Taxes)

And that equation has to be greater than zero. So if they have an arena management fee of $20 million going forward, sales taxes at Westgate City Center would need to be at least $27 million for the city to at least break even. This equation is greatly simplified, but in a directly measurable way it's an easy way to see whether the transaction makes sense.


Last edited by rj: 04-18-2012 at 10:06 AM.
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04-18-2012, 09:45 AM
  #646
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One of the funniest part was the arguments brought for the proposed budget based on the assumption that the Coyotes would drive as many as 800,000 people/year! Scruggs was quick on replying that she may be ok with 600,000 but not 800,000!

Now, some basic and quick maths:
  • 800,000/41 games = 19 512
  • 800,000/43 games = 18 604
  • Jobing.com seating = 17 125!

Come on man!

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Old
04-18-2012, 09:48 AM
  #647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
I can't believe this phiasco is still going on. Just think, Scruggs could have accepted 50 million or asked for more from Balsillie and the NHL could have had a successful franchise somewhere in Southern Ontario making oodles of money to give to all those other money losing franchises in Buttman's wet dream division (or is it a conference?). What a modern tale of caution.

Right up there with "I did not have sex with that woman" is "We will not sell to Balsillie" or something to that effect is a quote for the ages. Classic cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

The money lost will never be recovered. New money will be diverted to cover old losses perhaps but so much waste just to spite one man. $100 million at least for Phoenix? More? More yet to come? They should rename the suburb suckersville.

And it still isn't over. Welcome to the real world Ms. Scruggs. I'll bet the good people of your city will remember this time with fondness. The NHL has certainly made a splash for the ages. Bush league.
Considering what became of Balsille's "endless wealth", I for one feel the league made the right choice. The Hamilton Coyotes might be for sale right now....

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04-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #648
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Considering what became of Balsille's "endless wealth", I for one feel the league made the right choice. The Hamilton Coyotes might be for sale right now....
Is everyone enjoying the ride on the roller coaster? One more big climb, then drop and it's all over.

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Old
04-18-2012, 10:04 AM
  #649
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Considering what became of Balsille's "endless wealth", I for one feel the league made the right choice. The Hamilton Coyotes might be for sale right now....
He'd've used the money before it went away though. It'd've been no different than Mark Cuban who used his wealth to buy the Mavericks by cashing out on the tech bubble before it all crashed. So Balsillie would've had his non-NHL net worth decline but he'd've still owned an NHL team, and as long as that at least broke even or made money there would've been no problems because it wouldn't require Balsillie to put his own money into the team to keep it floating (unlike what Moyes did here or the New Jersey owner apparently).

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04-18-2012, 10:08 AM
  #650
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I particularly enjoyed when the Deputy City Manager claimed that the Coyotes presence would increase sales at the outlet mall by 40%. That was an amazing piece of governance.
He said what?!?

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