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Old
04-17-2012, 11:25 PM
  #701
NHL1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
5 games for torres.
They disagree.


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Old
04-17-2012, 11:30 PM
  #702
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Shanahan

He should have been fired in December.

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04-17-2012, 11:31 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Ice box hockey View Post
Always makes me mad when that is said. In my home town on rainy lake there is a place that you can look south and see canada.
Ii was just going to post the same thing, I love kettle falls.

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04-17-2012, 11:37 PM
  #704
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Someone is gonna take off their skate and try to shank Torres. He's a piece of garbage.
The Hawks are gonna call up Happy Gilmore? BRILLIANT!

Honestly I was surprised that That piece of human garbage left the ice completely intact after that bull crap. If Shannahan doesnt ban Torres, a repeat offender with history of doing crap like this AT THIS VERY TIME OF YEAR for a VERY long time, I have absolutely no faith in the NHL to control the goonery in these playoffs. This is Shanny's last chance to reign it in, in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Hossa has left the hospital, which is great news. I'm hoping Shanny doesn't use that factor when suspending Torres though. I can see it now, "He was already discharged? And Torres didn't even get a penalty for it? Must have been a clean hit."
Sounds like a plausible prediction to me.

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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post


"Torres told me that he was trying to get to the bench as soon as possible to avoid a "too many men" penalty. I believe that Hossa had time to get out of the way, but chose not to. I agreed with Torres when he told me that he tried to avoid Hossa by jumping over him. But since Hossa isn't the average height of a white picket fence, he was accidentally hit. I believe that Hossa intentionally standing in Torres way created a dangerous situation for both him and a fast skating Torres. Therefore, I'm suspending Hossa 5 games."
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
That's preposterous. Shanahan would never give out a suspension that long!



Much better.
I laughed so damned hard reading those two posts.

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04-17-2012, 11:39 PM
  #705
Ice box hockey
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Ii was just going to post the same thing, I love kettle falls.
I am glad someone else knows about that place. Such an amazing place.

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04-18-2012, 12:00 AM
  #706
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I am glad someone else knows about that place. Such an amazing place.
It's my hometown also.


Back on topic, I have a bad feeling torres won't get suspended.

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Old
04-18-2012, 12:21 AM
  #707
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These suspensions are going to magnify how terrible Shanahan's been throughout the season.

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Old
04-18-2012, 12:31 AM
  #708
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Reminder - PMB got more games for a guy lifting his stick into his own mouth than a guy (Neal) who intentionally targeted two people high on the same shift...both when the puck was nowhere near the play.

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04-18-2012, 01:18 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Dee Oh Cee View Post
Reminder - PMB got more games for a guy lifting his stick into his own mouth than a guy (Neal) who intentionally targeted two people high on the same shift...both when the puck was nowhere near the play.
As well as Carkner, who decided to punch a guy two times in the head, then five more times when he was on the ground.

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Old
04-18-2012, 08:10 AM
  #710
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Suspending to the Injury is a Recipe for Disaster

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Intent should be everything to these decisions. In a fast paced physical game, accidents will happen. Yes, trying to make players more responsible for their bodies is a great initiative, but to punish them more for accidents than intentional attacks is mind-bogglingly unintelligent.

The problem seems to be that intent is more difficult to prove. The NHL would rather not spend the time or make the effort to prove intent, and would much prefer to simply look at medical reports instead. They don’t trust players enough to be honest about intentions (which they shouldn’t), but they trust them enough to be honest about their injuries. They’re taking a shortcut that lacks any kind of logic.

That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that, even without the potential for lies, injuries are unpredictable from person to person. Commit the same act twice and you’re likely to receive 2 different results. Every player is different. Everybody responds differently to different actions. The NHL has now quite clearly said that you’re responsible more for how your opponent responds to your action than you are for the action itself.

If I punch 2 people in the face, one suffers a broken nose and one just a bruise, does it make either of the actions worse than the other? According to the NHL it does, and if that doesn’t seem silly to you, there’s a problem.

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Old
04-18-2012, 08:23 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by DC2600 View Post
I just scanned the article, but suspending to "intent" is likely a cure which is worse than the disease. Intent is completely ambiguous, and it's not actually relevant at all. So we say Weber "intended" to hurt Zetterberg and suspend him according to that. But what if he didn't? What if he had completely different intentions and just made a bad play? Does that suddenly make what he did okay? "I didn't mean to hurt him Shanny! Can I go now?"

Better yet, let's take the Torres hit. It was late. He left his feet. He hit Hossa too high. But did he mean to hurt Hossa? He made an incredibly stupid, horrible, needs to be suspended play, but do you really believe his intent with the hit was to knock Hossa out of the game? I'd say it's more likely he's an imbecile who made a bad hit because the hit was there and he thought he could get away with it. People try to assign malice to all sorts of situations, but as the saying goes "never attribute to malice that which can be explained as stupidity."

Actions have to be punished. Not results. Not intent. Not some bizzaro Shanahan-Campbell victim to offender quotient. Actions are the only thing which can be:

-Judged objectively
-Labeled consistently
-Properly influenced by use of incentives/disincentives
-Explained visually for interpretation to the rest of the hockey world

Intent cannot be judged objectively, and that alone is sufficient to have it thrown out as a criterion for establishing discipline. There's absolutely no way to argue such judgments can be handled consistently. Furthermore, there's significant argument to be made that it would fail at its primary goal: to reduce or eliminate these plays from hockey.

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Old
04-18-2012, 09:18 AM
  #712
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I go back to my original eyeball test.

Is it a good hockey play? No suspension.

Was it a stupid, reckless play? 1-5 games. Sit in the corner and think about what you did.

Was it a malicious, dangerous play? 10-50 games. First offense, you sit for a month. That sends a message. Second offense, we're not sure we want you in this league. Sit for half a season.

Three strikes and you're out. 1-2 seasons. Good luck finding a contract.

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Old
04-18-2012, 09:22 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I go back to my original eyeball test.

Is it a good hockey play? No suspension.

Was it a stupid, reckless play? 1-5 games. Sit in the corner and think about what you did.

Was it a malicious, dangerous play? 10-50 games. First offense, you sit for a month. That sends a message. Second offense, we're not sure we want you in this league. Sit for half a season.

Three strikes and you're out. 1-2 seasons. Good luck finding a contract.
What would Torres get for it being his fifth "incident" this season? Kicked out of the NHL for life? I'd be ok with that.

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Old
04-18-2012, 10:38 AM
  #714
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See this is tricky. Shanny should have sent out a memo and set a precedent with the Weber hit, but he didn't. It was pretty much "open season" from there. Then he "sent a message" with a 3-game suspension, but he still didn't address the dirty plays and give notice that he will ramp up suspensions severely.

Perhaps it was supposed to be implicit in the suspension. But in his position, you need to spell it out and be crystal clear.

As such, I don't think he has a precedent set for more than 10 games. Because he's operating on a case-by-case basis and working on the micro level. Which he shouldn't be. He should be managing these at a macro level. That needs to be serious suspensions and fines.

I look at it like this. If you want to get this stuff out of the league, suspensions should start at 5 games and go up quickly.

And I mean a 5-game suspension for something like Weber's hit, first offense, or any of those hits from behind. That will get attention. 10 games if you hit the goalie, not bump him accidentally, but run the goalie like they did with Smith. You're pretty much out of the playoffs at this point. Is it worth it?

And when you're a third offense, late hit, target the head? Like I said, you don't belong in this league. 40-50 games. Do you think anyone's going to be leaving their feet to hit someone in the head for "retribution" at that point?

Another issue is that the guys who are suspended are goons most of the time. In the bigger picture, it doesn't matter if Torres gets suspended 10 games in the playoffs. He's not an impact player. But if you suspend someone half a season (without pay), even if the coach pulls him aside and tells him to run the goalie, is he going to forfeit hundreds of thousands of dollars (and potentially his NHL career) to do so? Hell no.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:36 PM
  #715
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Here we go, gentlemen. Flyers looking to sweep the Penguins tonight followed by the LA GodsendsKings trying to bash the Sedin Sisters heads in with a very large broom.

Oh and Ottawa plays the Rangers too.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #716
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May as well just shake hands now, Pens.

Fleury just awful.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:43 PM
  #717
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Pitt takes a penalty, and gives up the early powerplay goal.

If you bought a broom, you may wish to start taking the price tags off.


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Old
04-18-2012, 06:44 PM
  #718
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And another penalty. Pens just unraveling.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:44 PM
  #719
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Another Pittsburgh powerplay.

This is an embarrassing start.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #720
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Holy Malkin!

Tie game!

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:48 PM
  #721
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this game is hilarious!

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:48 PM
  #722
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Can we get ANY goaltending in this series? Honestly.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:49 PM
  #723
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Everyone seems to have overlooked the fact that Bryz sucks too. Not to the extent that Fleury has has, but he sucks in this series.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:53 PM
  #724
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Aw dammit, and the Rangers have a 2-0 lead in their game with the Sens.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:55 PM
  #725
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Powerplay goal pens!

This game gonna get crazy

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