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Unofficial Rumor/Proposal Thread. Offseason Recon Part 3

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Old
04-18-2012, 01:36 AM
  #576
ales83fan
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Originally Posted by HopefulCoach View Post
WARNING: LONG POST

I dont really want to do any trades unless its an upgrade at C in our number 2 or 3 spot. For me our team looks like this assuming we take Yakupov:


XXXXX - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle
Taylor Hall - Sam Gagner - Nail Yakupov
XXXXX - Shawn Horcoff - Ales Hemsky
XXXXX - Eric Belanger - Ryan Jones
Hartikainen/Petrell/Lander/Eager

Ladislav Smid - Jeff Petry
Ryan Whitney - Nick Schultz
XXXXX - XXXXX
Sutton/Potter

Devan Dubnyk
Nikolai Khabibulin


1. Top Line LW. Ideally Id be searching for a big winger who can crash and bang but put up points. I do not think Malone or Clowe could be had in a trade based around the assets we have, nor would I push too hard for Clowe because as of right now he is a one year fix. Penner could potentially be a fix again but knowing what we know about him, is it worth it again? Probably not. My suggestions? Ray Whitney. One year deal possibly two. Guy that brings everything to the table to mentor the young guys on just what it takes day in and day out to be the best you can be in the NHL.

Pipe dream would be to get Parise as it sounds like he might hit the market due to NJD not being able to pay their bills but with this years UFA market being so minimal I am sure some team will overpay for him and we cannot afford that.

2.Third Line LW. DO NOT BRING SMYTH BACK. I'm not going to say who my source is so you can take it for whatever you want but their is a rift between Smyth and the kids. Its Moreau/Staios all over again and that is the last thing we need when trying to build something. My Personal first choice would be Andrew Brunette on a one year deal again. Second choice would be Mathieu Darche for the 4th line and Hartikainen for the 3rd line.

3. Guys I wouldnt mind here providing we do not think Petrell/Hartikainen/other AHL prospect cannot fill: Shawn Thornton, Daniel Paille, Travis Moen

4. Defence. Dont take too much stock in where I put guys in the depth chart. I more think we have 4 top 6 dmen and two good back ups in case of injury. Could maybe bump that up to 4 depending on Fedun and Klefbom. IF we do not think those two are ready for top 6 you need to add 2 defence men. Who I wouldnt mind: Kubina, Stuart, Jackman, Mitchell, Allen, Aucoin, Zanon. All guys who are tough, hard working dmen in their own zone but can move the puck decently. I personally would like 2 of Kubina/Allen/Mitchell.

5. We need an upgrade on C bad. We also need to shed ourselves of Horcoff or Belanger, or better yet both. Ideally if we could do that I would then bring in Gaustad or Arnott for 3rd line and give Lander 4th. This is most likely a pipe dream again though as it would take the Amnesty clause to come to fruition for Horcoff to be gone.

Anyways this is my dream team that is still somewhat realistic:

Zach Parise - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle
Taylor Hall - Sam Gagner - Nail Yakupov
Andrew Brunette - Jason Arnott - Ales Hemsky
Teemu Hartikainen - Paul Gaustad - Ryan Jones

Ladislav Smid - Jeff Petry
Pavel Kubina - Bryan Allen
Ryan Whitney - Nick Schultz
Sutton/Potter

Devan Dubnyk
Nikolai Khabibulin


What I realistically am hoping for:

Whitney - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle
Taylor Hall - Sam Gagner - Nail Yakupov
Teemu Hartikainen - Shawn Horcoff - Ales Hemsky
Mathieu Darche - Eric Belanger - Ryan Jones

Ladislav Smid - Jeff Petry
Ryan Whitney - Nick Schultz
Bryan Allen - Andy Sutton
Cory Potter

Devan Dubnyk
Nikolai Khabibulin


I believe that team would challenge for a playoff spot. Which I think is a realistic goal for this team next year. Biggest thing our team needs is some people in the wings pressuring those in the lines ups to play their best to keep their jobs.

Anyways, Thats my tuesday night random thoughts thrown down.

You sir,

have a good head on your shoulders. I like this.

I don't think we're signing Parise. That's not a problem for us at the moment.

I sign Penner and slot him in there. I think he would like to be back, and him and Hemsky had some serious chemistry in the past. The question is will he be motivated? Maybe on a 2 year deal?

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04-18-2012, 01:37 AM
  #577
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I just want to get everyone's opinion of the following 5 UFA D-Men.

Suter:
Carle:
Stuart:
Jackman:
Allen:

Here is mine
Suter: Not gonna happen, someone will outbid us or an immediate contender will take him.
Carle:Best guy to go after this offseason imo, gets another PMD we need, fairly solid in his own zone.
Stuart: Western Canadian boy, solid reliable dman who seems to do everything good but not great. Great depth guy to have for a 3-5 range dman.
Jackman: Similar to Stuart just a little more physical if I can recall right.
Allen: Big guy that could add some physicality to our D corp and has good plus minus through his 10 year career.

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04-18-2012, 01:41 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
We're not going to be up against the cap even next year. RNH and Yakupov being on their ELCs saves us gives us cap flexibility for a while longer too.

Whitney is off the books next year (that's 4 mill off your cap).

There will be no problem signing Smid. Not only that we have an extra 1.5 mill coming off the cap for basically nothing (Souray buy-out), that will cover a large part of the pay raise to Taylor Hall (1.5 millon).

What you need to do is create pockets of "expiring contracts". I don't think most hockey fans understand this concept but it's well known in leagues like the NBA/NFL where they've had salary caps for years.
When you are giving Bryan Allen 4.8 average, how can Smid be expected to take less then that? Then all of a sudden you've got Smid making 5 million a year. And then when Whitney comes off you need to replace him with a good puck mover, but how can you bring them in when you already have 10 million invested in 2 stay at home d-men who don't bring any offense.

I assure you I understand what you mean on expiring contracts. That doesn't mean you so grossly overpay for mid-tier players. Besides that, there are better players you can overpay than Bryan Allen in my opinion.

And honestly, the Oilers wouldn't have that much cap space next year, if the cap doesn't go up all that much signing someone like Bryan Allen for 4.8 million doesn't leave you enough room to bring in anyone else really. Not sure he is the guy you want to spend that money on.

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04-18-2012, 01:44 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
When you are giving Bryan Allen 4.8 average, how can Smid be expected to take less then that? Then all of a sudden you've got Smid making 5 million a year. And then when Whitney comes off you need to replace him with a good puck mover, but how can you bring them in when you already have 10 million invested in 2 stay at home d-men who don't bring any offense.

I assure you I understand what you mean on expiring contracts. That doesn't mean you so grossly overpay for mid-tier players. Besides that, there are better players you can overpay than Bryan Allen in my opinion.

And honestly, the Oilers wouldn't have that much cap space next year, if the cap doesn't go up all that much signing someone like Bryan Allen for 4.8 million doesn't leave you enough room to bring in anyone else really. Not sure he is the guy you want to spend that money on.
Well first I don't think Ladislav Smid is that much better than Bryan Allen to be honest. They're similar players, Allen is probably more physical, Smid is a better skater.

If Smid wants 4.5 at a longer term, I'd do it.

You would assume in 2-3 years one of Klefbom, Teuert, Marincin, etc. could make the team too, so that's really where Whitney's longer term replacement comes from.

Schultz is also off the cap long term. If you sign Allen he would be off the cap quickly too, we have practically no long term dollars invested in our defence even if you sign Allen to my proposed deal.

I don't think Hemsky is going to play out his contract here to be honest either. That's another $5 million that could come off your cap very easily next summer. But I don't think even that is absolutely necessary. Oilers will probably be below the cap the next several years even after re-signing Hall + Eberle + Smid.

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Old
04-18-2012, 02:45 AM
  #580
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I don't want the Oilers giving any free agent defenceman this offseason over 4.0 per year on a 4 year contract (especially if they can get Justin Schultz) unless his name begins with Ryan and ends with Suter.

The average range for a (non-ridiculous overpay) 2nd pairing defenceman is in the 3.5-4.0 million range.

Some players in the 3.5-4.0 million range (all UFA contracts):

- Ehrhoff (massive term though)
- Meszaros
- Giordano
- Zidlicky
- Z. Michalek
- Beauchemin
- Kubina
- W. Mitchell

Unless some GM goes full retard, there is no way Allen nor Carle get over 4 million/4 years.

Are there some defencemen that get ludicrous deals? Sure (see Komisarek, Mike). Those, however, are the deals that come back to haunt the team that makes them in Horcoffian fashion.

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Old
04-18-2012, 04:21 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
Hmm... Size and a scoring touch we so desperately need on a defensively-minded Blues team which might not coax out the best in him, imo... for a video recording device.

I'll take it. I'll donate the PVR.
It was 4 am in Finland when I wrote that. So give me a break

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:00 AM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Gagner + Paajarvi + Peckham
for
Brassard + Nikitin


Hemsky + Omark
for
Mike Green (Re-Up Green at 2 years/5.5 mill)

Whitney + Jones
for
Ryan Malone + prospect(s)

Sign UFA Bryan Allen x3 years (7/5/2.5)

Sign F Travis Moen (x1 year)


Malone RNH Eberle
Hall Brassard Yakupov
Smyth Horcoff Moen
Eager Belanger Hartikanen

Smid Green
Allen Petry
Schultz Nikitin

That's a considerably meaner, tougher, and more skilled group than last year. Taking a risk on Green, but if he doesn't pan out, you let him walk in 2 years.
I like your thinking you need more depth and toughness to win the cup. But ryan jones is a asset to the oilers almost a 20 goal 3 line guy, provides hitting, scoring, and heart. Almost a ryan malone type player (not as good but comparable in the sense hes 6 years younger) jones fits the definition of a depth winger. you keep jones.

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04-18-2012, 06:42 AM
  #583
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Not trying to sound like a Stauffer fan-boy, but I put alot of stock into his leads. He called the Gilbert trade about 4 days before it happened, he had also specifically said that would be the only Oilers deal at the deadline, which was also true. The week before he called the O'Marra trade 2 days before it happened. Both times he mentioned it with his whole 'I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin'. sort of way. He'll make a point, and then finish it with a 'keep that in mind...' trail.
Thing is, he's been pushing and pushing that the Oilers will NOT go for the big fish UFA this year after the history we've had, and keeps talking about how the Oilers will be acquiring atleast one decent defenceman in the offseason, but swears on his life it won't be by signing a UFA.
I believe him. The Oilers will be making a trade to acquire a D-man, not a UFA sign. His recurring names are Luke Schenn, and recently Mike Green.

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04-18-2012, 07:12 AM
  #584
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What I would love to see and isn’t to far of a stretch...

Trade: Paajarvi & Peckham/rights to omark and a third for Brassard
Sign: Fedotenko 2years/3 mil and Asham 2year/2mil

Eberle NUG Yakupov
Hemsky “A” Gagner Hall
Smyth “C” Brassard Jones
Fedotenko Belanger Asham

AP: Lander, Hartikainen, Eager. Petrell
Horcoff (buy out)

Sign: Justin Schultz 3year ELC/850,000 year and Carle 3year/6mil

Whitney"A" Petry
Carle Schultz
Schultz''A'' Sutton

AP: Potter, Teubert, Plante

Dubnyk
Khabibulin

AP: Roy


Last edited by MIL OIL: 04-18-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old
04-18-2012, 07:33 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by MIL OIL View Post
What I would love to see and isn’t to far of a stretch...

Trade: Paajarvi & Peckham/rights to omark and a third for Brassard
Sign: Fedotenko 2years/3 mil and Asham 2year/2mil

Eberle NUG Yakupov
Hemsky “A” Gagner Hall
Smyth “C” Brassard Jones
Fedotenko Belanger Asham

AP: Lander, Hartikainen, Eager. Petrell
Horcoff (buy out)

Sign: Justin Schultz 3year ELC/850,000 year and Carle 3year/6mil

Whitney"A" Petry
Carle Schultz
Schultz''A'' Sutton

AP: Potter, Teubert, Plante

Dubnyk
Khabibulin

AP: Roy
So ugly it hurts, alot. you people remember you're trading for Brassard and NOT Umberger, right?

Also, Ryan Smyth should barely be on the team, let alone the captain, ugh.

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Old
04-18-2012, 07:34 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
Not trying to sound like a Stauffer fan-boy, but I put alot of stock into his leads. He called the Gilbert trade about 4 days before it happened, he had also specifically said that would be the only Oilers deal at the deadline, which was also true. The week before he called the O'Marra trade 2 days before it happened. Both times he mentioned it with his whole 'I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin'. sort of way. He'll make a point, and then finish it with a 'keep that in mind...' trail.
Thing is, he's been pushing and pushing that the Oilers will NOT go for the big fish UFA this year after the history we've had, and keeps talking about how the Oilers will be acquiring atleast one decent defenceman in the offseason, but swears on his life it won't be by signing a UFA.
I believe him. The Oilers will be making a trade to acquire a D-man, not a UFA sign. His recurring names are Luke Schenn, and recently Mike Green.
Hopefully meaning they will inquire to Suter's mindset, but won't loose focus chasing him, hopefully.

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04-18-2012, 07:36 AM
  #587
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Bryan Allen is from just north of Kingston, so with Hall and Sutton it's a nice Kingston connection. Just need to get jay mcclement from st.louis for a 3rd line center

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04-18-2012, 09:05 AM
  #588
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I don't know why people are putting Gagner in the Washingtons proposals for Green. Where would they put him in the lineup with Backstrom and Johansson as their 1-2?
I could see them expecting Semin to go back to Russia at the end of the year, and Hemsky could be perfect to fill that slot. With the draft coming up, Hemsky seems like the most expendable player from drafting Yakupov. Hemsky and Green cost the same, and both of an injury history.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
Harti-Nuge-Eberle
Hall-Gagner-Yakopov
Smyth/PRV-Horcoff-PRV/Jones
Hortichuk-Lander-Petrell

Green-Smid
Petry-Schultz
Sutton-Peckham/Acquired D-man

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Brouwer
Chimera-Johansson-Hemsky

If we could somehow get Schenn for Gagner:
Harti-Nuge-Eberle
PRV-Hall-Yakupov (think of the speed)

Just a side note, but Stauffer hinted that Green would REPLACE Whitney, not supplement him.
Like Cogliano, why can't Gagner be switched to wing when dealt? A lot of teams have 5 or 6 centers in their lineup.

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04-18-2012, 09:19 AM
  #589
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What does the board think of Oduya? Could be a stop gap here.
I think we have to be careful in our expectations, there was talk that he was playing as bad as an ECHL guy earlier in the year.

Another guy that is kinda in the same boat for me is Rozival. Seems to be one of those guys that we can throw into a #5 role, but won't struggle if he has to play a bigger role for 5-10 games. Plus he shoots right

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04-18-2012, 09:43 AM
  #590
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Completely disagree. In fact, I would argue that the fans of 29 other teams would say that the trade I proposed favors the Oilers.
Thornton is 33 and will be a UFA in 2 years. In what world is that worth a 1st overall pick for a rebuilding team? Thornton is a great player obviously but he's not getting any better, he's soft as butter in the playoffs and he's just another playmaking center albeit a really good one, not really the best complement to RNH IMO. The perfect complement to RNH considering age, skillset etc. is 2 players. Couturier and J. Staal but those two would be way too expensive to acquire.

If we're trading the 1st overall, it should be for a young #1 defenseman or for a massive overpayment if a trade down was to occur like Johansen + 1st, Subban + 3rd etc. so in other words since those trades won't be done by those teams, take Yakupov and fill the holes through other means, it's as simple as that. Tambellini should have no interest in players like Thornton. You make trades for players like Thornton when you're ready to compete for a cup, not in the Oilers current situation.

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04-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #591
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Thorton is also coming off an off year. Another poor showing in the playoffs (by him and the Sharks). His trade value has never been lower.

I would trade Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart. Or Horcoff/Belanger, Theo Peckham and Jones.

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Old
04-18-2012, 10:12 AM
  #592
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Penner is the kind of reclamation project that fits with my idea of creating internal competition for Paajarvi/Hartikainen. Sign him to a 1-year deal at Barker money and see if, as has been said, he doesn't find his scoring touch alongside Horcoff and Hemsky. However, I'd also still re-sign Smytty- having more vets than kids is the ideal situation for an NHL club, and if he can't out-play a guy coming off a 7-goal, 17-point season, he probably isn't a top-six player.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hartikainen-CVV-Jones
Petrell, Eager

I'm not expecting miracles from Penner, but 17-25 goals would really help take the scoring burden off the kids- and allow Paajarvi to start the year in OKC, where he needs to be.

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04-18-2012, 10:13 AM
  #593
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Penner is the kind of reclamation project that fits with my idea of creating internal competition for Paajarvi/Hartikainen. Sign him to a 1-year deal at Barker money and see if, as has been said, he doesn't find his scoring touch alongside Horcoff and Hemsky. However, I'd also still re-sign Smytty- having more vets than kids is the ideal situation for an NHL club, and if he can't out-play a guy coming off a 7-goal, 17-point season, he probably isn't a top-six player.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hartikainen-CVV-Jones
Petrell, Eager

I'm not expecting miracles from Penner, but 17-25 goals would really help take the scoring burden off the kids- and allow Paajarvi to start the year in OKC, where he needs to be.
Not a terrible option, but seriously, if the Oilers sign Penner, that would mean Smyth walks. This team shouldn't have both.

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04-18-2012, 10:17 AM
  #594
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Not a terrible option, but seriously, if the Oilers sign Penner, that would mean Smyth walks. This team shouldn't have both.
That team almost certainly finishes in lottery position, but I think such a fate is inevitable unless Parise and/or Suter are Oilers July 1st.

And really, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It took the Pens four years of top-two selections. 1, 1, 1, 3/4/5 would be as helpful as 1, 2, 1, 2.

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04-18-2012, 10:35 AM
  #595
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That team almost certainly finishes in lottery position, but I think such a fate is inevitable unless Parise and/or Suter are Oilers July 1st.

And really, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It took the Pens four years of top-two selections. 1, 1, 1, 3/4/5 would be as helpful as 1, 2, 1, 2.
Nah. Haven't you heard? We're getting Yakupov. Problem solved.

I think we can be a playoff contender if we can add some good depth players, not like the ***** Steady added last year. If we can add Schultz, Carle, Kelly, Gaustad or some equivalent combination, we are competing for the playoffs. So yeah, a lotto team again.

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04-18-2012, 11:06 AM
  #596
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Thorton is also coming off an off year. Another poor showing in the playoffs (by him and the Sharks). His trade value has never been lower.

I would trade Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart. Or Horcoff/Belanger, Theo Peckham and Jones.
Toronto will trade Schenn, Kadri and their 1st for him. All 3 will have great years in SJ next year.

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04-18-2012, 11:09 AM
  #597
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Toronto will trade Schenn, Kadri and their 1st for him. All 3 will have great years in SJ next year.
You can use that same package for Rick Nash, who i think Burke will go after.

I actually suggested 1st and Schenn. But yea why not throw Kadri too, he is not gonna be the player TO hoped.



Rick Nash want to go to an Eastern based team. You arent gonna get a lot for a player that demanded a trade (a captain nonetheless). Might have to throw in more picks/players. But not too much more.

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04-18-2012, 11:21 AM
  #598
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You can use that same package for Rick Nash, who i think Burke will go after.

I actually suggested 1st and Schenn. But yea why not throw Kadri too, he is not gonna be the player TO hoped.



Rick Nash want to go to an Eastern based team. You arent gonna get a lot for a player that demanded a trade (a captain nonetheless). Might have to throw in more picks/players. But not too much more.
I can't see Nash going to TOR. If he is going to a team with a crazy media it has to be a contender. Heck, go to Florida and don't worry about the press. Whoever TO gets next year is going to be under so much pressure.

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04-18-2012, 11:43 AM
  #599
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I can't see Nash going to TOR. If he is going to a team with a crazy media it has to be a contender. Heck, go to Florida and don't worry about the press. Whoever TO gets next year is going to be under so much pressure.
Isn't he from Ontario? I can see him waiving for the leafs.

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04-18-2012, 11:56 AM
  #600
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Isn't he from Ontario? I can see him waiving for the leafs.
A lot of people are from Ontario and all they get is Connolly, Macarthur, Armstrong...

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