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Vancouver Canucks: Offseason yard sale

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Old
04-18-2012, 03:07 AM
  #76
Bourne Endeavor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Well to start considering age Price >> Luongo quite easily.
While The Twins together >> then Patches. Ad Patches age abd how much more Price is valued over Luongo it makes the trade about even.
The Art Ross AND Hart players are long gone from that performance.


In what fantasy world do you live in?

First, no Price is not x amount better than Luongo. Frankly, it's arguable he is better at all. That said, Price would have more value considering his age and potential but the difference is not even a fraction of the gap between both Sedins and Pacioretty. Personally, I find one year ago not all that long but it may just be me.

To be blunt, there is virtually nothing Montreal could offer for the Sedins. You just don't have the players. Pacioretty and Subban, while good, are a long way from proving themselves elite. Be mindful of the fact, Subban had a poor season this year. Plekanec is essentially an inferior Kesler and not even in the same discussion as Henrik.

No offense but there just isn't anything we would want for Sedin, barring an overpayment so disgusting Montreal would be pulling an Edmonton for the next few years.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:19 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post


Which one should i listen to? Is Edler the future of Vancouver or not?
They are both true.

Edler's got the physical makeup to be a true #1, but he's stagnated and does not seem to be able to take his game from a top-pairing dman (like Boyle, Stuart, Burns, Green, Karlsson, Letang, Campbell, Hamhuis, Mitchell, Seidenberg, Seabrook, Phaneuf, Beauchemin) to a true #1 (Pronger, Weber, Chara, Keith, Suter, Doughty maybe Yandle, or Pietrangelo).

Mental game isn't there.

Either Van needs to find another top-pairing, right-handed dman to play with him (not Rome or Ballard or any other bandaid pairing), or they need to build their defense around another top-pairing. But they run into the same problem turning to Hamhuis/Bieksa, as Bieksa is not quite a top-pairing dman.

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04-18-2012, 06:28 AM
  #78
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You'd think that Edler would be the most difficult player to pry from Vancouver on the back end. I know he hasn't impressed Vancouver this year, but I refuse to believe that's going to be a repetitive trend.

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Old
04-18-2012, 06:44 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
You'd think that Edler would be the most difficult player to pry from Vancouver on the back end. I know he hasn't impressed Vancouver this year, but I refuse to believe that's going to be a repetitive trend.
Hes been good for the most part and great for some of it while being not so good for some of it.

I think its who he is.

I doubt vancouver parts with him but much of that will depend on contract negotiations for his next one and upcoming talent on the farm.

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04-18-2012, 06:49 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
They are both true.

Edler's got the physical makeup to be a true #1, but he's stagnated and does not seem to be able to take his game from a top-pairing dman (like Boyle, Stuart, Burns, Green, Karlsson, Letang, Campbell, Hamhuis, Mitchell, Seidenberg, Seabrook, Phaneuf, Beauchemin) to a true #1 (Pronger, Weber, Chara, Keith, Suter, Doughty maybe Yandle, or Pietrangelo).

Mental game isn't there.

Either Van needs to find another top-pairing, right-handed dman to play with him (not Rome or Ballard or any other bandaid pairing), or they need to build their defense around another top-pairing. But they run into the same problem turning to Hamhuis/Bieksa, as Bieksa is not quite a top-pairing dman.
Id say Bieksas a top pairing Dman.

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Old
04-18-2012, 09:41 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BothEndsOfTheRink View Post
Have you seen his play in this series? Unacceptable, the guy crumbles under pressure. Not the future of this D core. He needs a change of scenery. San Jose would be a good fit for him, not too crazy of a media market.
Have you seen him in every other playoff series but this one? Edler is known as a playoff performer, even if he is eliminated he gets a pass. Edlers been one of our worst players this series, but the rest of the team hasn't done much either.

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04-18-2012, 09:44 AM
  #82
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Id say Bieksas a top pairing Dman.
I agree, he isn't quite. He's an above average number 3. And yes, we need to get someone to play with Edler rather than trade Edler.

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04-18-2012, 10:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I agree, he isn't quite. He's an above average number 3. And yes, we need to get someone to play with Edler rather than trade Edler.
Problem is that a top-pairing, right-side defenceman is difficult to find.

I think the answer is to build a new top pairing around Hamhuis and someone. Pair Bieksa with Edler or Ballard to make a very strong top 4. Bottom pairing will be Tanev and one of Alberts/Rome/Grags.

Ones that are even remotely available you'd have to overpay. Mike Green, Markov, Phaneuf are the only bonafide top-pairing D I can think of that might even be remotely available, and for one reason or another, they're all a step below Weber, Seabrook, Letang and Carlson in value. All the above would cost an arm and a leg.

And then there's Pronger, Doughty, Burns ,Myers and Chara who are all untouchable.

Of the affordable, but probably still unavailable, we'd have to target Wisniewski, Bogosian, E. Johnson, Campbell or even roll the dice on Jovanovski.

To summarize: to build a new, true top pairing around Hamhuis and a new acquisition, it will be expensive and there's not much to choose from even if you overpay or try to buy low.

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Old
04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
Problem is that a top-pairing, right-side defenceman is difficult to find.

I think the answer is to build a new top pairing around Hamhuis and someone. Pair Bieksa with Edler or Ballard to make a very strong top 4. Bottom pairing will be Tanev and one of Alberts/Rome/Grags.

Ones that are even remotely available you'd have to overpay. Mike Green, Markov, Phaneuf are the only bonafide top-pairing D I can think of that might even be remotely available, and for one reason or another, they're all a step below Weber, Seabrook, Letang and Carlson in value. All the above would cost an arm and a leg.

And then there's Pronger, Doughty, Burns ,Myers and Chara who are all untouchable.

Of the affordable, but probably still unavailable, we'd have to target Wisniewski, Bogosian, E. Johnson, Campbell or even roll the dice on Jovanovski.

To summarize: to build a new, true top pairing around Hamhuis and a new acquisition, it will be expensive and there's not much to choose from even if you overpay or try to buy low.
How about Green, Johansson and a pick for Kesler and Raymond?

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Old
04-18-2012, 01:22 PM
  #85
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People think Dion Phaneuf is a top pairing D man?......

Edler is a solid top pairing guy we just need to get him a solid right side guy.

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Old
04-18-2012, 01:22 PM
  #86
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Is that pick a 1st? No? I'd still do it.

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Old
04-18-2012, 01:24 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
People think Dion Phaneuf is a top pairing D man?......

Edler is a solid top pairing guy we just need to get him a solid right side guy.
On what team is Dion Phaneuf not one of 2 top dmen other than Nashville or Chicago?

Sure I hate his stupid face as well, but you can't deny the skill set, especially if your rebuttal is Edler being a top pairing guy. They are at least equal in the "tools" category.

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Old
04-18-2012, 01:59 PM
  #88
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Higgins, hansen, pahlsson and kassian are not available? Lol not the guys I'd think are untouchable, but whatever. Hodgson deal killed the canucks, kassian is terrible.

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Old
04-18-2012, 02:21 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoTeamDom View Post
On what team is Dion Phaneuf not one of 2 top dmen other than Nashville or Chicago?

Sure I hate his stupid face as well, but you can't deny the skill set, especially if your rebuttal is Edler being a top pairing guy. They are at least equal in the "tools" category.
Canucks, Blues and Rangers off the top of my head.

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Old
04-18-2012, 02:49 PM
  #90
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I think it is easier to put up a list of players that are available for trade:
Cory Schneider
Roberto Luongo
Keith Ballard
Manny Malhotra (NTC)

We are not going to blow up this team if we lose in the first round.. it is not going to happen. Coaching change will be considered but it won't happen.

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Old
04-18-2012, 02:54 PM
  #91
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would anybody consider something around Kesler for Gudbranson+Matthias?? would anything need to be added?

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Old
04-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #92
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What It's not an overreaction! Everyone should be available the Sky is falling! The Sky is falling!

Okay now that I've gotten out the inner hurt feelings for how this year has gone. I think Gillis Has to have 5 goals this off-season

#1 - AV is gone - Yes I'm an AV-hater never liked him when we got him had issues with him since but I look at this year and it has been eeriely similiar to 06 (minus the fact we made the play-offs this year) Sorry I thought he got outcoached in every play-off series last year and just won strictly on how good of a team we had last year. At the moment imo best coach available for what we are looking for is Craig MacTavish and I would like to see what MacT can do with more than 1 Elite player on his team.

#2 - Look move Luongo - Sorry Lu is a great goalie and probably will rebound very well from a move (Especially to a team like the Lightning). Hopefully for a good prospect (ie. Connolly) or good young-ish player. (hopefuly in something that doesn't send to much cap back

#3 - Have no one unavailable - This is not to say every can be had easily but yes everyone should be available Yes the Sedins would cost an arm and a leg but if you get that offer Gillis (ie. Sedins+ for Ovechkin++/Malkin+) Be like Holmgren was last season you get an offer that helps the team you take and work with what you have.

#4 - Get back the defensive depth we had - Yes Ehroff was a big loss as he was better than Ballard within our system. (Especially seen Ballard's chain was so short it wasn't even funny) If that means overpaying a bit for a Weber you do it as Weber with Edler takes a lot of pressure off of him and allows him to the D he is capable of.

#5 - Look to work in the kids - Schroeder should definitely at least split time with the big team next year or form an offensive 3rd/4th line so that you don't have to rely strictly on Kesler and the Sedins to produce and that if another injury happens to one of them that you have actually offensive forwards to fill the spots not grinders who might get an extra goal or two. The other guy who should get more ice time is Kassian as much as I hate the trade gotta live with it. (The other forward we should look at had an amazing camp imo and should get a good hard look is Jensen) I wouldn't mind if we had a line of Jensen-Schroeder-Kassian to try and develop them together for the start of the year.

Now I know I have no real proposal in this but looking things over these are the crazier proposal's I'd do if I was in Gillis' shoes:

Luongo + a mid round pick to Tampa Bay for Brett Connolly and either Aulie or Lee.

Look to sign Zach Parise in the 7.5 mil range ideally and Barrett Jackman to a 4-5 mil dollar range

Ballard and a 1st to Winnipeg for Little and a depth D.

My really crazy proposal for the Off-season The Sedins + a pick to Buffalo for Derek Roy and Tyler Myers.

Now I know I'm a little crazier then most (dealing the Sedins over Kesler) But I think this is a team that imo looks good

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Zach Parise ($7.500m)
Bryan Little ($2.383m) / Derek Roy ($4.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Zack Kassian ($0.870m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.925m)
Dale Weise ($0.700m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Byron Bitz ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Barret Jackman ($4.000m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Keith Aulie ($0.750m) / Matt Carkner ($0.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($2.500m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,653,333; BONUSES: $125,000
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $646,667

I'd also like to move Manny but it is doubtful. This is a tough but skilled team to play against that can skate. Imo a better team than this years (as we have 5 top 4 Defensemen with Tanev on his way to develop into another one.)
So you want to run 5 offensive lines and 4 d lines? And what makes you think Lou will be bring you back a good prospect? Teams will realize Van is the one held by the balls. If they can't move Lou they have to move Schneider. Either spend close to 10 mill on goalies and suffer at other positions or bite the bullet and take a low first round pick and maybe a 2nd for Lou. Oh you are delusional to think Lou will get you Aulie or Connolly from Tampa not to mention abd Draft pick. You obviously are a nucks fan not a hockey fan.

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Old
04-18-2012, 03:14 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM- View Post
What It's not an overreaction! Everyone should be available the Sky is falling! The Sky is falling!

Okay now that I've gotten out the inner hurt feelings for how this year has gone. I think Gillis Has to have 5 goals this off-season

#1 - AV is gone - Yes I'm an AV-hater never liked him when we got him had issues with him since but I look at this year and it has been eeriely similiar to 06 (minus the fact we made the play-offs this year) Sorry I thought he got outcoached in every play-off series last year and just won strictly on how good of a team we had last year. At the moment imo best coach available for what we are looking for is Craig MacTavish and I would like to see what MacT can do with more than 1 Elite player on his team.

#2 - Look move Luongo - Sorry Lu is a great goalie and probably will rebound very well from a move (Especially to a team like the Lightning). Hopefully for a good prospect (ie. Connolly) or good young-ish player. (hopefuly in something that doesn't send to much cap back

#3 - Have no one unavailable - This is not to say every can be had easily but yes everyone should be available Yes the Sedins would cost an arm and a leg but if you get that offer Gillis (ie. Sedins+ for Ovechkin++/Malkin+) Be like Holmgren was last season you get an offer that helps the team you take and work with what you have.

#4 - Get back the defensive depth we had - Yes Ehroff was a big loss as he was better than Ballard within our system. (Especially seen Ballard's chain was so short it wasn't even funny) If that means overpaying a bit for a Weber you do it as Weber with Edler takes a lot of pressure off of him and allows him to the D he is capable of.

#5 - Look to work in the kids - Schroeder should definitely at least split time with the big team next year or form an offensive 3rd/4th line so that you don't have to rely strictly on Kesler and the Sedins to produce and that if another injury happens to one of them that you have actually offensive forwards to fill the spots not grinders who might get an extra goal or two. The other guy who should get more ice time is Kassian as much as I hate the trade gotta live with it. (The other forward we should look at had an amazing camp imo and should get a good hard look is Jensen) I wouldn't mind if we had a line of Jensen-Schroeder-Kassian to try and develop them together for the start of the year.

Now I know I have no real proposal in this but looking things over these are the crazier proposal's I'd do if I was in Gillis' shoes:

Luongo + a mid round pick to Tampa Bay for Brett Connolly and either Aulie or Lee.

Look to sign Zach Parise in the 7.5 mil range ideally and Barrett Jackman to a 4-5 mil dollar range

Ballard and a 1st to Winnipeg for Little and a depth D.

My really crazy proposal for the Off-season The Sedins + a pick to Buffalo for Derek Roy and Tyler Myers.

Now I know I'm a little crazier then most (dealing the Sedins over Kesler) But I think this is a team that imo looks good

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Zach Parise ($7.500m)
Bryan Little ($2.383m) / Derek Roy ($4.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Zack Kassian ($0.870m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.925m)
Dale Weise ($0.700m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Byron Bitz ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Barret Jackman ($4.000m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Keith Aulie ($0.750m) / Matt Carkner ($0.750m)
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($2.500m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,653,333; BONUSES: $125,000
CAP SPACE (25-man roster): $646,667

I'd also like to move Manny but it is doubtful. This is a tough but skilled team to play against that can skate. Imo a better team than this years (as we have 5 top 4 Defensemen with Tanev on his way to develop into another one.)
You'd be able to get a lot more for the Sedins. They're not that old at 31. They'll probably play for like 10 more years.

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04-18-2012, 03:33 PM
  #94
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1) Trade Luongo to Tampa.
2) Get rid of Ballard.
3) Don't resign Raymond.
4) Test the market for Booth.
5) Keep Edler

Canucks need a player now in the Morrow/Malone/Clowe mold but with youth. Maybe Kassian takes a jump in his development next year to be that guy but you can't rely on that. Keep the speed in the team, but get that player to play front of the net and create room.

Problem with Kesler and Booth is because they are both too similar a type of player and there isn't any chemistry there. I think trading Kesler would be a mistake, but it wouldn't hurt to see what a possible return could be.

Higgins - Pahlsson - Hansen makes for an extremely good 3rd line, you just need to now develop the chemistry for the 2nd line if Kassian isn't ready to make the jump.

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04-18-2012, 03:38 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
So you want to run 5 offensive lines and 4 d lines? And what makes you think Lou will be bring you back a good prospect? Teams will realize Van is the one held by the balls. If they can't move Lou they have to move Schneider. Either spend close to 10 mill on goalies and suffer at other positions or bite the bullet and take a low first round pick and maybe a 2nd for Lou. Oh you are delusional to think Lou will get you Aulie or Connolly from Tampa not to mention abd Draft pick. You obviously are a nucks fan not a hockey fan.
No I don't want to run that was using to show the depth we would have probably have Manny and Bitz as the 13/14 forward switching in when the Coach would decide it made sense. As for Luongo's value and I can tell you are a Canuck hater as you keep thinking That we will be lucky to get a small return for him. Look at what a Tampa Bay fan offered in return Connolly + a 1st. Imo more value than Aulie and Connolly. I would take that as can always move the 1st for a good depth D. Eventhough yes Canucks are in a pickle atm with Schneider and Luongo. Teams like Tampa will pay a fair share for either as they are the difference between the Play-offs and fighting for 1st overall. If Luongo is dealt it will be for a fair price no matter what Canuck hater say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeX4cavalier View Post
You'd be able to get a lot more for the Sedins. They're not that old at 31. They'll probably play for like 10 more years.
Yes They do probably have more value I think I over valued Myers (+ I've never been a big Sedin fan). They could play for 10 more years and probably be productive. But I believe they will be retiring at the age of 36/37. I looked at the trade like the Goligoski for Neal+Niskanen type trade. Probably could add someone else for Buffalo to even out the trade (ie. Gerbe/pick)

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04-18-2012, 03:44 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcarder View Post
1) Trade Luongo to Tampa.
2) Get rid of Ballard.
3) Don't resign Raymond.
4) Test the market for Booth.
5) Keep Edler

Canucks need a player now in the Morrow/Malone/Clowe mold but with youth. Maybe Kassian takes a jump in his development next year to be that guy but you can't rely on that. Keep the speed in the team, but get that player to play front of the net and create room.

Problem with Kesler and Booth is because they are both too similar a type of player and there isn't any chemistry there. I think trading Kesler would be a mistake, but it wouldn't hurt to see what a possible return could be.

Higgins - Pahlsson - Hansen makes for an extremely good 3rd line, you just need to now develop the chemistry for the 2nd line if Kassian isn't ready to make the jump.
I think they could work well if we go out an get an elite passer to play with (ie. Parise) As that is another weakness we have. As we have 2 elite passer and they both play on the top line.

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Old
04-18-2012, 03:45 PM
  #97
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Just out of Curiosity what would it take to get Booth and Kesler to the Sabres?

Only guy that wont be traded is Myers. Hodgson Foligno and Ennis are close to untouchable but could be in deals for Bigger Star type players but preferably not.

So if it can be done with some of these peices what would they be: Roy, Vanek, Sabres 1st, Nashvilles 1st, CGY 2nd Sabres 2nd, Sekera, Leopold, Weber, Mcnabb, Pysyk Armia Tropp.


Something Close to:

Roy
Armia
Pysyk
Sabres 1st
Flames 2nd

for

Kesler
Booth

Not really sure what Vancouver needs right now

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Old
04-18-2012, 03:59 PM
  #98
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My proposal :
Lars Eller
Alexei Emelin
One of :
33rd overall/Gallagher/Kristo (Vancouver choice)
For
Ryan Kesler

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Old
04-18-2012, 04:03 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
My proposal :
Lars Eller
Alexei Emelin
One of :
33rd overall/Gallagher/Kristo (Vancouver choice)
For
Ryan Kesler
That would be a No if Van was dealing Kesler either 3rd overall/Subban/Patches+ would be coming over this way.

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Old
04-18-2012, 04:14 PM
  #100
Jeffrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM- View Post
That would be a No if Van was dealing Kesler either 3rd overall/Subban/Patches+ would be coming over this way.
I would pass then Kesler is great but we are not at a Kesler to contend and Subban + Patches are already core players. We might trade the 3rd for Kesler but I doubt it would improve the nucks in a not so distant future

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