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Old
04-17-2012, 01:52 AM
  #51
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Wow, cash has just been pouring in the last douzen or so hours. Probably about 200k in the last 15-20 hours.

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04-17-2012, 02:13 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokers Gonna Choke View Post
Wow, cash has just been pouring in the last douzen or so hours. Probably about 200k in the last 15-20 hours.
Yeah... and I badly want that collector's edition box... dammit, why do I have to have more important life plans that interfere with all my frivolous wants?

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04-17-2012, 02:28 AM
  #53
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They have been getting about 10k an hour. They need about 30k to hit 3m with about 4 hours left.........

I Pledged $250 on the first day. I think I get like 5 copies of the game

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04-17-2012, 02:53 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
They have been getting about 10k an hour. They need about 30k to hit 3m with about 4 hours left.........

I Pledged $250 on the first day. I think I get like 5 copies of the game
The average pledge right now is $47.85. That's ridiculously good. It makes my measly $15 feel cheap

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04-17-2012, 04:59 AM
  #55
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And they hit 3 million with 2 hours to spare, meaning there will be a mod kit.

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04-17-2012, 05:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
And they hit 3 million with 2 hours to spare, meaning there will be a mod kit.
I only see $2.9M on the Kickstarter page, where is the total amount?

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04-17-2012, 05:09 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Chokers Gonna Choke View Post
I only see $2.9M on the Kickstarter page, where is the total amount?
There's a bit over $100k in Paypal contributions.

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04-17-2012, 06:52 AM
  #58
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Okay, Kickstarter just might be the best thing for proper gaming in the last 10 years.

Another hopefully old-school game getting near to 600% of what they hoped they'd achieve, The Banner Saga, old-school, turned-based RPG made by former Bioware developers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...he-banner-saga

Hopefully the extra money for Wasteland means more content.

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04-17-2012, 07:16 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Okay, Kickstarter just might be the best thing for proper gaming in the last 10 years.

Another hopefully old-school game getting near to 600% of what they hoped they'd achieve, The Banner Saga, old-school, turned-based RPG made by former Bioware developers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...he-banner-saga

Hopefully the extra money for Wasteland means more content.
Banner Saga is another one I contributed to... I'm definitely looking forward to it too.

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04-17-2012, 07:40 AM
  #60
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Now that Wasteland 2 is over and we can talk about other projects, I ran across these games I funded:

The Dead Linger - Reading up on this makes it looks like the zombie game I've been waiting for my whole life. Open world zombie survival where you build a fortified base and just keep surviving. The worlds are massive, to the tune of 25,000 square kilometers. Bored with your area, move on to the next. You're not going to run out of space in this game. There's also multiplayer which sounds awesome. I can't wait to try playing this with somebody and building a base together, doing anything we can to survive.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2dawngames/ravaged - This game looks like it'll play similar to Battlefield with foot pounders and vehicles, include air vehicles, in combat. The video has some cheesy animations when you kill people but I'm assuming that'll be cleaned up by release. This one has a low goal of $15,000. There's just about $6,000 left with 33 days to go.

I also funded Shadowrun Returns and Banner Saga but it looks like those were already mentioned here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Okay, Kickstarter just might be the best thing for proper gaming in the last 10 years.
Yes it is, hopefully more people with a passion for gaming will go this route and can create games they want instead of having publishers breathing down their necks forcing them to change things.

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04-17-2012, 11:20 AM
  #61
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If any of you guys like Metroidvania style games, there's something called Valdis Story: Abyssal City made by a couple of kids that looks pretty exciting.

There's also Ryan Payton (former Kojima Productions, also Halo 4 producer) and his Republique, an iOs game that... I'm on my phone, it's tough to explain, just go take a look.

And of course, SHADOWRUN. Shadowrun is more exciting to me than Wasteland or Double Fine.

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04-17-2012, 11:24 AM
  #62
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So Double Fine and inXile raised 6 mil combined for 2 games in genres everyone thought were dead.

Suck it publishers.

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04-17-2012, 01:30 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
So Double Fine and inXile raised 6 mil combined for 2 games in genres everyone thought were dead.

Suck it publishers.
Let's not start S'ing each others D's just yet, they still have to make the games good.

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04-17-2012, 03:33 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
Let's not start S'ing each others D's just yet, they still have to make the games good.
True enough... but it's definitely gives some reason to hope.

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04-17-2012, 07:16 PM
  #65
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web page added (they sent it to my email) ...apparently u can still fund the development and $20 is apparently still cheaper than the launch price.

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/store

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/

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04-17-2012, 08:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
And they hit 3 million with 2 hours to spare, meaning there will be a mod kit.
Well that's not quite they case. They said it just makes a mod kit possible. I'm not counting on one TBH, but it will be a pleasant surprise.

The other only KS I have much interest in is Grim Dawn.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ment/grim-dawn

It's by the same devs who made Titan Quest. My hold up is though I'm not sure I can reconcile pledging funds to a game so far already in progress. Strikes me as a cash grab. And the ARPG genre isn't exactly starving. I have similar hold ups with the Banner Saga, well that and their claim to fame is working on a Bioware game.

Wasteland represented an entire type of game that is completely non existent now. Not even indies make these games really any more since Vogel/Spiderweb went off the deep end. And being the genre I care most about I had to contribute, especially considering who the team was bringing the game. I assume adventure game fans felt the same way. But so many of these other KS projects strike me as a way for guys to fund a project they were gonna do anyway and that irks me a bit.

Speaking of adventure games. The other big one is Jane Jensen's Pinkerton Road game.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...-2012-2013-csg

She's planning on creating a yearly release cycle based on contributions. So in a way this could help revive a genre more than a single project. Adventure fans should seriously consider this one.

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04-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #67
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I'm really hoping Flavian, the sole developer of Infinity: Quest for Earth decides to use Kickstarter. I think Infinity will be the revolutionary game in the past 20 years.

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04-17-2012, 09:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
My hold up is though I'm not sure I can reconcile pledging funds to a game so far already in progress. Strikes me as a cash grab. And the ARPG genre isn't exactly starving.
I see what you're saying... as long as the rewards are worth the contribution (ie getting the game cheaper than the future retail price) I don't see too much of a problem with it, but I get why it bothers you.

Wasteland is the one I'm truly excited about though - I played the first Wasteland, and if this one lives up to its promise, it will be great.

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04-18-2012, 12:38 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by parabola View Post
So Double Fine and inXile raised 6 mil combined for 2 games in genres everyone thought were dead.

Suck it publishers.
They're "dead" because most people won't pay $40-60 for them anymore. They'll pay only $15-20, making them awfully niche games, still close to dead. So, I don't see this as proving a whole lot to the publishers. They're more interested in the big budget games that can command $40-60 price points, and that's their prerogative. It'd be nice if they'd fund cheaper, niche games like these, but I can understand them not having as much interest, since room for profit is slim and the number of potential customers is similarly slim. If you were a big publisher like EA and could throw $10M at DICE to make a shooter that would bring in $100M or throw that same $10M at Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer to make two old school games that might make $20M, combined, which would you choose?


Last edited by Osprey: 04-18-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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04-18-2012, 12:54 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
They're "dead" because most people won't pay $40-60 for them anymore. They'll pay only $15-20, making them awfully niche games, still close to dead. So, I don't see this as proving a whole lot to the publishers. They're more interested in the big budget games that can command $40-60 price points, and that's their prerogative. It'd be nice if they'd fund cheaper, niche games like these, but I can understand them not having as much interest, since room for profit is slim and the number of potential customers is similarly slim. If you were a big publisher like EA and could throw $10M at DICE to make a shooter that would bring in $100M or throw that same $10M at Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer to make two old school games that might make $20M, combined, which would you choose?
I think you're largely right... but I also think in a number of cases, the publishers have irreparably damaged games that could have succeeded had developers been left alone. That's not to say there isn't need for someone to make the business decisions and reign in developers at times, but my understanding is that it's often people who are out of touch with the process who make those decisions.

I think this new game making model has a lot of potential to allow those niche games to still come to market, and to free developers from the bloat and unintentional sabotage of publishers. That said - I don't expect publishers to go away - they're still needed for the bigger types of games that you mentioned.

However, I will admit that the above is largely uninformed opinion on my part.

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04-18-2012, 02:41 AM
  #71
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They're "dead" because most people won't pay $40-60 for them anymore. They'll pay only $15-20,
I don't really think that's accurate. If you look at the sales for the old RPGS in the 90's and before the numbers were never high to begin with. But I think most of the people who paid $50 for a new RPG in the 90's are still willing to pay that. What's different is there was never an honest to goodness attempt at expanding the market of RPGs without removing what made them great. It may not be possible but no one actually tried. Bioware, the last man standing at the time went the full action route like everyone else.

They are chasing the larger sums/fan bases, but I don't think the lack of RPGs has anything to do with the old fanbase going away. It has more to do with the old fan base being neglected and allowed to wither.

The average pledge was about 48 bucks and 60,000+ thousand pledged. For a game that doesn't exist yet in anything but name.

Also games back in those days went bargain bin pretty quickly. So a lot of the original sales for games were not full price just like today.

Just as an example, the figure for Arcanum pre-digital distribution was 233k sold. Most certainly those were not all full price. I think 60,000 pledges for a non-existent game of potentially the same quality, from devs with the same or better pedigree speaks pretty well of the market. It's not that people aren't willing to pay for these games, Publishers aren't willing to make them any more.

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04-18-2012, 03:05 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
I don't really think that's accurate. If you look at the sales for the old RPGS in the 90's and before the numbers were never high to begin with. But I think most of the people who paid $50 for a new RPG in the 90's are still willing to pay that. What's different is there was never an honest to goodness attempt at expanding the market of RPGs without removing what made them great. It may not be possible but no one actually tried. Bioware, the last man standing at the time went the full action route like everyone else.

They are chasing the larger sums/fan bases, but I don't think the lack of RPGs has anything to do with the old fanbase going away. It has more to do with the old fan base being neglected and allowed to wither.

The average pledge was about 48 bucks and 60,000+ thousand pledged. For a game that doesn't exist yet in anything but name.

Also games back in those days went bargain bin pretty quickly. So a lot of the original sales for games were not full price just like today.

Just as an example, the figure for Arcanum pre-digital distribution was 233k sold. Most certainly those were not all full price. I think 60,000 pledges for a non-existent game of potentially the same quality, from devs with the same or better pedigree speaks pretty well of the market. It's not that people aren't willing to pay for these games, Publishers aren't willing to make them any more.
Spot. On.

Agree with everything in that post.

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04-18-2012, 03:09 AM
  #73
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I don't really think that's accurate. If you look at the sales for the old RPGS in the 90's and before the numbers were never high to begin with. But I think most of the people who paid $50 for a new RPG in the 90's are still willing to pay that.
The general public will not pay $50 for an RPG that looks like it's from the 90s. Some would, yes, but it'd be a small number of buyers. There's a reason, afterall, why you're getting these games for only $15 pledges. Don't think that they'd sell like hotcakes for $50 and you're getting a huge, huge deal at only $15.

This is a classic example of how you can make more money by pricing something low and selling more of them than by pricing them high and seller fewer of them. Just because people are gobbling them up at $15 does not mean that they'd just as strongly gobble them up at $50. If that were the case, no entrepreneur with a lick of sense would sell them for only $15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperHF
The average pledge was about 48 bucks and 60,000+ thousand pledged. For a game that doesn't exist yet in anything but name.
They're getting a lot more than just the game when they pledge $30 or more. Also, over half of those 60,000 backers gave only $15 and those that gave $30 or more will get two copies of the game. Finally, a lot of what skews the average pledge are the likely friends and colleagues in the industry who pledged $250-10K. Those people are not normal game buyers.

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04-18-2012, 03:40 AM
  #74
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The general public will not pay $50 for an RPG that looks like it's from the 90s. Some would, yes, but it'd be a small number of buyers. There's a reason, afterall, why you're getting these games for only $15 pledges. Don't think that they'd sell like hotcakes for $50 and you're getting a huge, huge deal at only $15.

This is a classic example of how you can make more money by pricing something low and selling more of them than by pricing them high and seller fewer of them. Just because people are gobbling them up at $15 does not mean that they'd just as strongly gobble them up at $50. If that were the case, no entrepreneur with a lick of sense would sell them for only $15.

They're getting a lot more than just the game when they pledge $30 or more. Also, over half of those 60,000 backers gave only $15 and those that gave $30 or more will get two copies of the game. Finally, a lot of what skews the average pledge are the likely friends and colleagues in the industry who pledged $250-10K. Those people are not normal game buyers.
The general public isn't really the issue for Wasteland. Fans of RPGs like Wasteland are the concern.

Yes they are getting more than the game @ higher tiers. But you used to get more than just the game when you paid $50 for one.

Just as an example the $50 tier on W2 has these things:
2 copies, 1 digital 1 boxed.
Map, manual, Soundtrack, Novella

The biggest difference between an actual old school $50 box copy and this one is the novella (which will probably be digital), Digital sound track, and the digital copy. Heck in 2004 my boxed Rome total war had a map, sound track, large manual, and 4 discs. So this isn't even that long ago. The $50 pledge isn't that far off of an old school $50 purchase. And the $15 pledge is 5 Dollars MORE than the old school bargain bin jewel case only copy of a game. Instead of getting the bargain bin guys later you are getting them immediately.

Also only 1383 people pledged $250+. And I don't think they are all industry guys. I'm certainly not. The guys who pledged that on the W2 forum aren't. Some of those large pledges are communities like SA and NMA that got together and created a large pledge instead of many smaller ones.

I'd also argue that $15 before a game exists at all is worth significantly more as a commitment than $50 at launch when you get it in your hands and can impulse buy. That's a huge reason why these games are $15. Time value of money.

It wont look like a 90's game. They are talking about using Unigine. This will be a modern game. It's not Cthutlu Saves the World or something.

I'm not suggesting the Digital release of Wasteland 2 should be $50. Because it's only going to be a digital release once it's done outside of the backers. What I'm saying is the spread of people who bought Arcanum, Fallout 1&2, the Original Wasteland, Ultima, and any other RPG of this type absolutely still exists. The pledges show that.

I don't really quibble with your point that this isn't going to make publishers give these games a look or anything. I'd prefer it that way actually since they have been proven to screw them up. But your characterization that the market is gone is just wrong. It's the same market it always was, probably a little bit bigger. What's changed is the Publishers have bigger targets.

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04-18-2012, 07:05 AM
  #75
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The thing you guys might no get is that 3 million dollars is about the budget that Double Fine had to make either Stacking, Costume Quest or Trenched. It's less than the budget of Bastion. Less than the budget of Shadow Complex. Would those games been successes for 60 dollars?

A Mass Effect game costs over 50 million dollars to make. That's why it can't just be a spreadsheet simulator. That's why it has to have broad appeal. Maybe that's what you aren't getting here. Development costs in just the last 7 years have tripled if not more. HD, good voice acting, all the joys of modern gaming come with a stiff price.

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