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Canucks: Trade the core? / Keep the core?

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Old
04-17-2012, 10:57 PM
  #201
Falconator
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Canucks have a lot of issues right now, first and foremost is a need for a culture change which starts with getting rid of the head coach. That's a given if they lose, he's created to much of an ole boys club in Vancouver with his favorites!

Second is they need a a second line with chemistry, Booth and Kesler have zero together. They struggled with a consistent RW for that line all year, plugging in several different players throughout the year. Get a set line for cryin out loud.

Third they need better defensive pairings and a stub top four defenseman, I know Edler had a very good year but he can be sooooooooo inconsistent at times. See the first round of this years playoffs for an example. I may differ from others but I think Ballard is a solid solid top four guy when he's on the left side. Meaning we can get rid of Edler to aquire that top four defenseman on the right side.

Fourth they have to get rid of players like Raymond - Burrows - Pahlsson - and possibly Kesler if the right deal is out there. I'm tired of their BS!

Some trades that I would make, inject some youth into the lineup and let your draft picks know they've got a chance to make the big club.

1. Burrows to Montreal for Jarred Tinordi and a 3rd. A 20-30 goal scoring French Canadian from Montreal who makes $2 million a year.
2. David Booth and Alex Edler to Dallas for Jamie Benn.
3. Luongo & Rome (defensive depth) to Tampa for Detroit's 1st and Tampa's 2nd.
4. Mason Raymond to Calgary or Edmonton for a draft pick.

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04-17-2012, 11:13 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
What do the canucks do in your eyes.

Keep everybody: Trade for depth and make another run.
Keep the core: Trade Cory Schneider for somebody proven and make a run.
Keep most of the core: Trade luongo, Keep schneider. Trade for depth, make another run.
Trade the core: Trade ryan kesler + Luongo and follow the Philly model, roll the dice on next year.
Blow it up: Trade the entire core, Kesler,sedins,luongo,edler. Build for the next 3 years and make a run then.
Other: Insert ideas here.
OTHER:
Fire Vinnie and start over with a coach that is in line with the GM's acquisitions

He's been outcoached in the playoffs consistently and had the fortune of posessing the best depth in team history at his disposal including the best goalie in franchise history, the best playmaker(s) in their history, the first Selke winner in their history, and no dynasties to contend with. Time to freshen up. I've seen enough.

The Luongo discussion is moot unless he wants out. Possible but not bankable. I only see two potential buyers for Lou: Tampa and New Jersey. To be realistic, put NJ in the unlikely category for me. NJ does not have the assets to get Schneider but they have enough to trade for Lou.

If Lou does agree to waive, you have to compare the offers on both goalies and determine what makes you the best team going forward. It's not a slam dunk that decision is keeping Schneider if the return from trading him is far higher than for Lou.

Were it not for the terrible, uneducated, naive, fickle etc. fan base here, I would probably not even think about trading Lou because of the assumed difference in value. Lou's a great goalie and not the cause of our demise in the playoffs this year.

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04-17-2012, 11:34 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
Hodgson could've been traded in the offseason and Gillis was telling GMs before the TDL that Hodgson wasn't on the market then traded him, that's not how you trade a young talent like Hodgson. Kassian Hodgson move could've been done in the offseason.

You give Gillis too much credit this team was built off of Burke and DN, as much as that kills me to say but it's true. All our stars and key players are Burke/DN guys, not Gillis guys. Gillis is a good GM but I think your giving the guy too much credit, he rebuilt the bottom 6, all the key guys on this team aren't from Gillis, even the head coach is a DN guy. Where would this team be if DN never traded for Luongo. Gillis is too young in his career for me to call him a great GM, this team still faces the same problems and that's mental toughness and scoring in the playoffs, these are issues that have always been the black cloud on this team and it's not fixed.

This offseason, if we lose in the 1st round, might be the biggest one for Gillis he has to pick a goalie and adjust this team.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree I don't like some of his moves like not signing Torres, trading Sams, letting Mitchell go and trading Hodgson mid season. He gets too much credit for a team that was mostly built by Burke and DN.


The counter to that he (Gillis) doesn't get enough credit for taking this team to the next level -- something Burke and Nonis could not do. To get that, your core has to improve & your support players have to be of a higher quality. He's cultivated the environment where both aspects have occurred here.



The black cloud that is lack of mental toughness...?? Who was lacking the mental toughness when this team went to the SCF last year? Oh, by the way, that was under the Gillis regime.



Kassian for Hodgson, if you followed anything about the deal, was done at the deadline for a reason. Primarily, Hodgson was slowing down at an alarming rate. 2 months of hitting the skids in production, and he was getting burned defensively at the same time. In the playoffs, those problems would be magnified. Who knows? Maybe Hodgson's value plummets as a result to the point BUF no longer feels he's worth Kassian? Then, no deal goes down for the play MG wants. Lastly, MG was said to have specifically targeted Kassian in return -- In such a case, I'm not surprised he didn't consider alternative options.

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04-17-2012, 11:48 PM
  #204
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I think Luongo would goto Tampa Bay, doesn't him and his wife live in Florida in the off-season?

Anyway if I am the Canucks I try and trade Luongo and I would make everyone available and see what you can get to make your team better.

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04-17-2012, 11:59 PM
  #205
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If it wasn't for Keith we wouldn't even be talking about this. Doing anything drastic is a mistake, our team won't get any better by dropping our best defensive forward for ANYTHING else. Simply getting rid of Luongo and picking up a 2nd pairing Dman and we're golden. With D.Sedin in the line up the series is totally different.

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04-17-2012, 11:59 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
IMO there are 3 areas that the Canucks could use improvement.



Trade Schneider to Tampa for Aulie, Detroits 1st, and a 2nd. Call up Schroeder for the 3rd line C.
I don't see Yzerman parting ways with Aulie for anything right now. he has said that he was wanting to get him for like a year before the trade happened.

What about one of Tampa's or Norfolks forwards? If there is anything Tampa can spare right now it comes from the forward department. We have Cory Conacher coming up next year, so moving Malone, Connolly, or even Purcell wouldn't be out of the question I bet.


Last edited by Glide5: 04-18-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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Old
04-18-2012, 12:06 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Some trades that I would make, inject some youth into the lineup and let your draft picks know they've got a chance to make the big club.

1. Burrows to Montreal for Jarred Tinordi and a 3rd. A 20-30 goal scoring French Canadian from Montreal who makes $2 million a year.
2. David Booth and Alex Edler to Dallas for Jamie Benn.
3. Luongo & Rome (defensive depth) to Tampa for Detroit's 1st and Tampa's 2nd.
4. Mason Raymond to Calgary or Edmonton for a draft pick.
Got to say I agree with what you are saying. The changes you say make sense and none of them seem too crazy either. Out of the 4 you suggest, two of those could happen.

and #3 I bolded just because that would be the best option for Tampa. Luongo and a defenseman (both of which we need) and some draft picks for the Canucks to add youth. even if they had to deal our 10th instead of Detroits it still wouldnt be a huge loss.

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04-18-2012, 12:11 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by finchster View Post
I think Luongo would goto Tampa Bay, doesn't him and his wife live in Florida in the off-season?

Anyway if I am the Canucks I try and trade Luongo and I would make everyone available and see what you can get to make your team better.
Stars like to play with other stars who will help them win. Stamkos' recent success on offense might be a big help to bringing Luongo to Tampa.

Plus its a more laid back hockey town in comparison to Vancouver.

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04-18-2012, 12:17 AM
  #209
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The Canucks would be moronic to sell their core. They took a step back this year but their core is elite. Henrik+Daniel+Kesler+Burrows+Edler+Hamhuis+Bieksa+ Luongo/Schneider is up there with the best core groups in the league. In this situation I think it would be wise to change coaches before you go and foolishly break that group up.

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04-18-2012, 12:24 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Glide5 View Post
I don't see Yzerman parting ways with Aulie for anything right now. he has said that he was wanting to get him for like a year before the trade happened.

What about one of Tampa's or Norfolks forwards? If there is anything Tampa can spare right now it comes from the forward department. We have Cory Conacher coming up next year, so moving Malone, Connolly, or even Purcell wouldn't be out of the question I bet.
If that's the case then there are plenty of bottom pairing defensemen in free agency that the canucks could pick up. The locals would shun me for passing up on Connolly but I bet Purcell would look great on a line with Kesler and Booth.

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04-18-2012, 12:29 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The counter to that he (Gillis) doesn't get enough credit for taking this team to the next level -- something Burke and Nonis could not do. To get that, your core has to improve & your support players have to be of a higher quality. He's cultivated the environment where both aspects have occurred here.



The black cloud that is lack of mental toughness...?? Who was lacking the mental toughness when this team went to the SCF last year? Oh, by the way, that was under the Gillis regime.



Kassian for Hodgson, if you followed anything about the deal, was done at the deadline for a reason. Primarily, Hodgson was slowing down at an alarming rate. 2 months of hitting the skids in production, and he was getting burned defensively at the same time. In the playoffs, those problems would be magnified. Who knows? Maybe Hodgson's value plummets as a result to the point BUF no longer feels he's worth Kassian? Then, no deal goes down for the play MG wants. Lastly, MG was said to have specifically targeted Kassian in return -- In such a case, I'm not surprised he didn't consider alternative options.
Rookies have highs and lows. Who knows maybe Hodgson is clutch in the playoffs and his value gets higher. Fact is we don't know what would have happened. My problem with that trade is the timing that's not a time to change your teams identity, if the team fails then you trade Hodgson and a goalie as the shake up, both would be traded anyways. I'm glad Hodgson is gone he didn't want to be here then peace but don't tell other GMs he can't be had, let them help raise his return.

I like Kassian and love the idea of a young power forward here and hopefully him Schroeder and Jensen build some chemistry but make this move in the offseason.

Kassian is playing 5 mins a game... we didn't need to make it then and Kassian hasn't played good defense in the playoffs and has made some bad turn overs. I disagree with the timing of the trade and I don't get the god like love Gillis gets, he's a good GM but I'll wait till he has been around a little longer and done more before I'll give him all the credit many fans give him, Burke and DN built this core not Gillis, depth is a lot easier to fill in then top players.

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04-18-2012, 01:48 AM
  #212
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I think this deserves consideration; the Canucks core might be self-changing. Sedin might go to MODO. Kesler might need more hip surgery. Luongo might have waived his NTC off the record. We don't know yet.

Vignault will wear the playoff collapse. Gillis will fire him. The incoming coach might have some ideas of his own about personnel.

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04-18-2012, 01:53 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I think this deserves consideration; the Canucks core might be self-changing. Sedin might go to MODO. Kesler might need more hip surgery. Luongo might have waived his NTC off the record. We don't know yet.

Vignault will wear the playoff collapse. Gillis will fire him. The incoming coach might have some ideas of his own about personnel.
Sedins are under contract with the Canucks their not going to modo anytime soon. Kesler needs an offseason to work on his hip but he won't miss a season because of it.

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04-18-2012, 02:11 AM
  #214
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My mind was wandering today...

To CBJ
Schneider
Edler
Raymond
1st round pick

To Van
Nash
2nd overall pick

Find a way to get rid of a few players such as Ballard and Manny. Let go of Salo as well.

Then go out and sign Weber. Yes. I know it's a pipe dream and he's going to re-sign but I'm just thinking here.

Eventually get to a roster that looks like this.

Sedin-Sedin-Nash
Booth-Kesler-Higgins
Burrows-Pahlsson-Hansen
Bitz-Lapierre-Kassian
Weise

Weber-Tanev (just throwing pairings together)
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Rome-Gragnani
Alberts

Luongo
Lack

I think that team can win a Cup. Only issue is that we can't trade away Edler without knowing Weber is coming back or else there's a massive hole on our blue line.

Does it fit the cap? Not quite sure but it must be close. I'm just on my phone right now so I'm in no position to be crunching numbers.

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04-18-2012, 02:30 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
Rookies have highs and lows. Who knows maybe Hodgson is clutch in the playoffs and his value gets higher. Fact is we don't know what would have happened. My problem with that trade is the timing that's not a time to change your teams identity, if the team fails then you trade Hodgson and a goalie as the shake up, both would be traded anyways. I'm glad Hodgson is gone he didn't want to be here then peace but don't tell other GMs he can't be had, let them help raise his return.


He targeted Kassian. There are no other GMs at that point. He wanted Kassian, so BUF was the only team in consideration.



As to the timing: It's always going to be debatable. I'm of the mind that if a player wants out, you get him out asap. You say he could have been useful for a run. I counter with saying he was already struggling big time in the regular season. Odds are, he just flat out sucks in the post-season and maybe even gets benched. Look at how much AV is playing Kassian right now and understand that rookies get no play in VAN. Better not to hope for a huge turn around in a much tougher environment. Better to deal while his value was still strong.




Quote:
I like Kassian and love the idea of a young power forward here and hopefully him Schroeder and Jensen build some chemistry but make this move in the offseason.

Kassian is playing 5 mins a game... we didn't need to make it then and Kassian hasn't played good defense in the playoffs and has made some bad turn overs. I disagree with the timing of the trade and I don't get the god like love Gillis gets, he's a good GM but I'll wait till he has been around a little longer and done more before I'll give him all the credit many fans give him, Burke and DN built this core not Gillis, depth is a lot easier to fill in then top players.


If depth was easier to fill, why was it so difficult for Burke and Nonis to complete the puzzle? I mean, they already had brought in the big pieces...



Good depth is hard to find. The proof is in both Burke's and Nonis's tenure. They had the top end, but no depth, and they got out of the 1st rnd once each. MG has done it every year he's been here. Well, expect this year that is.

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04-18-2012, 02:31 AM
  #216
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Nash at pretty much 8 mil cap hit isn't Vancouver's fix. I don't want Nash here, like the player but the cap hit is very bad.

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04-18-2012, 02:38 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
He targeted Kassian. There are no other GMs at that point. He wanted Kassian, so BUF was the only team in consideration.



As to the timing: It's always going to be debatable. I'm of the mind that if a player wants out, you get him out asap. You say he could have been useful for a run. I counter with saying he was already struggling big time in the regular season. Odds are, he just flat out sucks in the post-season and maybe even gets benched. Look at how much AV is playing Kassian right now and understand that rookies get no play in VAN. Better not to hope for a huge turn around in a much tougher environment. Better to deal while his value was still strong.








If depth was easier to fill, why was it so difficult for Burke and Nonis to complete the puzzle? I mean, they already had brought in the big pieces...



Good depth is hard to find. The proof is in both Burke's and Nonis's tenure. They had the top end, but no depth, and they got out of the 1st rnd once each. MG has done it every year he's been here. Well, expect this year that is.
WCE days Burkes team was a goalie away from a big run, Burkes biggest failure in Van was he couldn't get the goalie, when we got the goalie the core was aged and done. Canucks had a awesome team just really bad goaltending, the only thing I missed about our goalie back then was him beating guys up lol fighting was all he could do.

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04-18-2012, 03:05 AM
  #218
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Check this shakeup

To Van: Thornton, Marleau, Clowe

To San: Sedins

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04-18-2012, 03:33 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I think this deserves consideration; the Canucks core might be self-changing. Sedin might go to MODO. Kesler might need more hip surgery. Luongo might have waived his NTC off the record. We don't know yet.

Vignault will wear the playoff collapse. Gillis will fire him. The incoming coach might have some ideas of his own about personnel.
This thread just hit a new low.

Sedins are not going anywhere.

And why the hell do people keep adding Burrows to these proposals? He's as much a part of this core as the Sedins and Kesler are.

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04-18-2012, 03:53 AM
  #220
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Trade for a dynamic playmaking skill top 6 player to play with Kesler, Try Booth with sedins, if it doesnt work trade him, and move part of the core or something for OEL if Phoenix moves to Quebec..

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04-18-2012, 03:59 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by justabrah View Post
WCE days Burkes team was a goalie away from a big run, Burkes biggest failure in Van was he couldn't get the goalie, when we got the goalie the core was aged and done. Canucks had a awesome team just really bad goaltending, the only thing I missed about our goalie back then was him beating guys up lol fighting was all he could do.

You think Burkes team was a goalie away. I'm not so sure. But the irrefutable part about this is that his team, in the end, did not make that run. Gillis's team did. Gillis's team won the PT twice. It's a roster widely recognized to have good NHL quality depth throughout - not so for the teams under Burke or Nonis. Those teams had good top ends, but no depth.

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04-18-2012, 04:37 AM
  #222
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As much I want to kill myself for saying this;

I would pursue Glencross in a trade.

Glencross is seriously under rated and can light it up on a pathetic Flames team.

Glencross - Kesler - Booth would be unreal.

Then send Lu to any team for a young dman ala Gardiner.

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04-18-2012, 04:37 AM
  #223
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I can't believe some Canuck fans are fine with trading the Sedins. Crazy. Sedins and Burrows are not going anywhere. Kesler should be given one more year too. It would be way too premature to trade him after one average year. I think a new coach is the most obvious change but it scares me when I look at the available coaches. AV is simply a better coach than anyone available. You guys would be okay with MacT coaching the Canucks? I wouldn't.

One of Schneider and Luongo are gone. Luongo is a solid goalie but Schneider is younger and for that reason I want him to stay. It just makes more sense. I think Tampa would be a great place for him, especially since he would be back in Florida.

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04-18-2012, 05:05 AM
  #224
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Trade sedins and luongo and go young philly style.
Can't do that when you traded away ur potential Giroux.

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04-18-2012, 05:14 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
What do the canucks do in your eyes.

Keep everybody: Trade for depth and make another run.
Keep the core: Trade Cory Schneider for somebody proven and make a run.
Keep most of the core: Trade luongo, Keep schneider. Trade for depth, make another run.
Trade the core: Trade ryan kesler + Luongo and follow the Philly model, roll the dice on next year.
Blow it up: Trade the entire core, Kesler,sedins,luongo,edler. Build for the next 3 years and make a run then.
Other: Insert ideas here.
In my eyes they concentrate on winning the next game.

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