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James Neal & Craig Adams suspended for Game 4; Arron Asham suspended for four games

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Old
04-18-2012, 07:04 AM
  #526
JXC
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Originally Posted by nightstalker78 View Post
Are you implying I'm that one person? It may very well be that he was doing it to keep his balance..but it looked to me like he was grabbing something. Either way I hope he's okay.
He's okay, he didn't miss a shift. Nor did Couturier, if memory serves. That's why Pens fans are talking about "diving".


Last edited by JXC: 04-18-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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04-18-2012, 07:34 AM
  #527
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The more I think about the more moronic this thing gets.
How does Asham get 4 games, yet Weber gets 0?

Neither Schenn nor Zetterberg got injured.
Neither Asham nor Weber have any prior history.
IMO Weber's intend was clearly more malicious than Asham's.

Mind boggling.

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04-18-2012, 07:39 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
He's okay, he didn't miss a shift. Nor did Couturier, if memory serves. That's why Pens fans are talking about "diving".
Well pens fans are idiots.He certainly wasn't diving.It just looked to me like he was picking up his mouth guard then fell.I don't think he played another shift after that though.I may be wrong.That may have been Lavy keeping him safe.

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04-18-2012, 07:50 AM
  #529
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The ironic thing is: The videos are supposed to help avoid controversy, yet all they do is create more.
I was fine with the suspensions until I heard the reasoning.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I just received news of the suspensions last night and thought "Well, that sounds reasonable, not as much as I'd hoped for for Neal, but I can live with one game". Then today I saw the video and the rationale behind the decision. WTF?

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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
"There are a handful of players in the league who fall into that category in a large way and Matt Cooke is one of them," Lindros said. "And you know what the unfortunate part is? When the time comes for him to be a free agent, some general manager will sign him and pay him more than someone who kills penalties or plays on the power play because of his -- I can't really find another word for it -- trashy style of play.

"And there's a large political scene in these situations. Colin Campbell (NHL vice-president and director of hockey operations, who dishes out the suspensions) is in a tough position, but there are a lot of back-door things done. Certain teams get taken care of differently than others, no question."

To that end, Lindros suggested an independent panel of three people meet to determine suspensions for illegal hits.

Lindros seriously is spot on... even a year or two later, with these comments.

And they should have a panel to decide on suspensions.
I think that's a pretty good idea. If Lindros and the Flyers organization's been getting friendlier lately, maybe he could be on it as well... No, but it's actually a pretty solid idea. Definitely better than one guy taking all the blame.

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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
The owners freaked when Shanny was laying out the law early on and told him to chill out with the multiple game suspensions. Saying that, Neal as a repeat offender and getting only on game is a joke. The players have no clue whats right or wrong. anymore. Oh well lets put these suckers to bed in game four and that is a great way to pay back Neal.
I think this is true, unfortunately. In the preseason Shanahan was handing out suspensions left and right. Lengthy suspensions at that. After a while though, someone must have complained, because the punishments weren't nearly as severe during the regular season. It could be that they treat preseason games more harshly since the results in those games are meaningless, but it still seems a bit odd to me.

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Originally Posted by mibro0224 View Post
Does it really really bother anyone else that part of the explanation was: no injury. There EASILY could have been a serious injury on either play.

League discipline is a joke. Let's just end this tomorrow and move on.
It is ridiculous. The NHL should punish intent, not result. It's not something new to these hits though, that's been the way they've gone from day 1. Not so sure you can lay the blame for that on Shanahan though. I don't know how much say he has in the actual setting up of the rules, or if he just has to make his decisions within the framework established.

That's why it's so hard to figure out where to draw the line for the players, I think. A hit that only received a fine, because the guy being hit didn't get injured, will the next day receive a 3-game ban because the guy being hit that time was half an inch shorter and got a slight concussion.

Sure, it can be tough to call intent on hits that are hockey plays, but stuff like Weber and Carkner have done in these playoffs are not something you want to see in a game, and to lessen the discipline because Zetterberg and Boyle weren't injured is just stupid.

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Bye bye.
Don't be rude to new members. There's a lot of whining going on around here, there always is during the playoffs/when we meet the Pens. It's natural when you gather a lot of fans of the same team in one spot. We see everything with a slightly orange tinge. We love Talbot now, and hated him when he shushed us (and whined about it, I'm sure).




Oh, well. Send them golfing (or, to Finland and the WC - Letang, remember that Timonen's countrymen all carry knives at all times, even in the sauna somehow)

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04-18-2012, 07:50 AM
  #530
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how does Neal, a repeat offender, get only 1 game for 2 bad hits?

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04-18-2012, 07:53 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by nightstalker78 View Post
Well pens fans are idiots.He certainly wasn't diving.It just looked to me like he was picking up his mouth guard then fell.I don't think he played another shift after that though.I may be wrong.That may have been Lavy keeping him safe.
he didn't play since that hit till end of the game, as i remember

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04-18-2012, 07:56 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by nightstalker78 View Post
Well pens fans are idiots.He certainly wasn't diving.It just looked to me like he was picking up his mouth guard then fell.
A skater like Claude Giroux falling down while picking up his mouthguard? I am skeptical.

Pens fans are idiots BUT I have seen Flyers fans right here on this board call that kind of thing "diving" or "embellishing".

You may be right about the shifts though, not sure Giroux got on ice after that, it was later than I thought.

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04-18-2012, 08:03 AM
  #533
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A few things...

1) I am surprised he got suspended at all to be honest
2) His suspension was for the hit on Giroux not Coots - the Torres hit looked exactly like the one on Coots. Torres, like Neal, is a repeat offender...does he get no games?
3) If Shanny made the Neal suspension announcement before the games tonight, does that deter players, like Torres, from making these hits?

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04-18-2012, 08:04 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
A skater like Claude Giroux falling down while picking up his mouthguard? I am skeptical.

Pens fans are idiots BUT I have seen Flyers fans right here on this board call that kind of thing "diving" or "embellishing".

You may be right about the shifts though, not sure Giroux got on ice after that, it was later than I thought.
I think he was a bit dizzy from spinning, and lost his balance getting his mouthguard.

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04-18-2012, 08:07 AM
  #535
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It doesn't fooking matter. The intent was there clear as day.

He ran Couts and after the refs fooking did nothing and Lavi failed to put our only enforcer on the team out there (cause god we dont want that) the rat took another opportunity to run Roo.

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04-18-2012, 08:08 AM
  #536
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The league is a joke! They complain about the safety of the game but refuse to make changes or punish those responsible

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04-18-2012, 08:13 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
The more I think about the more moronic this thing gets.
How does Asham get 4 games, yet Weber gets 0?

Neither Schenn nor Zetterberg got injured.
Neither Asham nor Weber have any prior history.
IMO Weber's intend was clearly more malicious than Asham's.

Mind boggling.
Weber is a star and a key player while Asham gone has little impact on the series. Double standards is how I see it.

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04-18-2012, 08:51 AM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
A few things...

1) I am surprised he got suspended at all to be honest
2) His suspension was for the hit on Giroux not Coots - the Torres hit looked exactly like the one on Coots. Torres, like Neal, is a repeat offender...does he get no games?
3) If Shanny made the Neal suspension announcement before the games tonight, does that deter players, like Torres, from making these hits?
I thought the same thing. If Shanny has any consistency with his rulings (which he doesn't), Torres walks...

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04-18-2012, 08:58 AM
  #539
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Torres will get like 4 games. His hit was higher than Couturier hit, but still Shanahan is going to look like an assface when he announces the Torres suspension

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04-18-2012, 09:14 AM
  #540
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I can't believe they bought that ******** about the Couts hit. Seriously, he jumped to brace himself for an unexpected hit? What a crock. I'll take the 1 game, since it was more than I expected, but I think it should have been more. Asham's I'm OK with, although if it had been longer that wouldn't have drawn many complaints from me.

Very disappointed in Shanahan in the playoffs. I had no problem with him throwing around suspensions in the pre-season. He was the new sheriff in town, had to show who was boss. I would've liked to have seen that continue a bit in the regular season, but the BS about the Shea Weber non-suspension just wrecks credibility. It's going back to the Colin Campbell "Wheel of Justice" approach, where things appear to happen a bit randomly.

Whatever. Just end this one tonight, Flyers, and get some time to heal before the next round.

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04-18-2012, 09:29 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
I thought the same thing. If Shanny has any consistency with his rulings (which he doesn't), Torres walks...
the major flaw in Shanny's anti-logic is that he bases his decisions around a few totally irrelevant facts... like...
was the player injured?
did he pass his concussion baseline test?
is he a star player?

instead of following his own damn rules about whether it was directed at the head, left his skates, away from the puck, etc.


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04-18-2012, 09:55 AM
  #542
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Why don't they have a disciplinary panel made up of...

1 ex player

1 ex referee

1 ex coach

That would make more sense.

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04-18-2012, 09:58 AM
  #543
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Why don't they have a disciplinary panel made up of...

1 ex player

1 ex referee

1 ex coach

That would make more sense.
B/c this is the same Bush league that every year can't even figure out how the game should be played and makes rule changes more than G dekes people out of their underwear....

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04-18-2012, 10:37 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Stonehands77 View Post
I can't believe they bought that ******** about the Couts hit. Seriously, he jumped to brace himself for an unexpected hit? What a crock. I'll take the 1 game, since it was more than I expected, but I think it should have been more. Asham's I'm OK with, although if it had been longer that wouldn't have drawn many complaints from me.

Very disappointed in Shanahan in the playoffs. I had no problem with him throwing around suspensions in the pre-season. He was the new sheriff in town, had to show who was boss. I would've liked to have seen that continue a bit in the regular season, but the BS about the Shea Weber non-suspension just wrecks credibility. It's going back to the Colin Campbell "Wheel of Justice" approach, where things appear to happen a bit randomly.

Whatever. Just end this one tonight, Flyers, and get some time to heal before the next round.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with Raffi Torres, given that the puck was closer to and most recently with the player he hit, his hit was not as late as Neal's, he didn't jump as high as Neal, he is a repeat offender like Neal.

I am content to have someone kick Neal's head in next year, we need to focus on winning this game and sending them to the links.

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04-18-2012, 10:39 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
B/c this is the same Bush league that every year can't even figure out how the game should be played and makes rule changes more than G dekes people out of their underwear....
^^^this^^^


it is pretty funny when you look at it from the outside for a few secs.

trying to describe the game/rules to a hockey outsider.. you get alot of raised eyebrows..

pretty bush league indeed

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04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
  #546
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
^^^this^^^


it is pretty funny when you look at it from the outside for a few secs.

trying to describe the game/rules to a hockey outsider.. you get alot of raised eyebrows..

pretty bush league indeed
I have to imagine this will be a huge topic of discussion during CBA negotiations. They have to have a an actual framework of what the rules are. If star players get more lenient treatment, if injuries matter more than intent, if reputation factors in, whatever it is, it has to be laid out. It can't be just we'll look at it and figure it out. I don't necessarily like the aforementioned criteria, but if that is what they are looking at, they have to make it clear. If it isn't, then they have to say it isn't and when it comes time to suspend a superstar, they can't factor that in. Consistency is key. Be harsh all the time or be lenient all the time. No more of this spinning the wheel of suspensions (someone with photoshop should make a wheel of suspensions btw) and just getting random results. Hopefully everyone in the negotiations is on the same page. I can't imagine owners/players/NHL execs are too happy with these results.

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04-18-2012, 11:58 AM
  #547
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Torres will get 10+ for a less dirty hit which caused a far worse result. Both repeat offenders, both jumped (Neal jumped both earlier and higher), both late (Neal was about a second later than Torres), but unfortunately Hossa had to be carried out on a stretcher and ambulanced to the hospital.

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04-18-2012, 12:09 PM
  #548
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I have to imagine this will be a huge topic of discussion during CBA negotiations. They have to have a an actual framework of what the rules are. If star players get more lenient treatment, if injuries matter more than intent, if reputation factors in, whatever it is, it has to be laid out. It can't be just we'll look at it and figure it out. I don't necessarily like the aforementioned criteria, but if that is what they are looking at, they have to make it clear. If it isn't, then they have to say it isn't and when it comes time to suspend a superstar, they can't factor that in. Consistency is key. Be harsh all the time or be lenient all the time. No more of this spinning the wheel of suspensions (someone with photoshop should make a wheel of suspensions btw) and just getting random results. Hopefully everyone in the negotiations is on the same page. I can't imagine owners/players/NHL execs are too happy with these results.
It should be..the governance of this league is fraught with loopholes that can be abused but oftentimes that is the whole intent. Things are left vague so that arbitrary decisions can made...it's a complete travesty. I mean the way this league changes rules year to year you would think it was some kind of fantasy league...

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04-18-2012, 12:10 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
A skater like Claude Giroux falling down while picking up his mouthguard? I am skeptical.

Pens fans are idiots BUT I have seen Flyers fans right here on this board call that kind of thing "diving" or "embellishing".

You may be right about the shifts though, not sure Giroux got on ice after that, it was later than I thought.
The way Giroux went down just looked too awkward to be a dive. If he wanted to draw a call, all he had to do was go straight down to his knees, holding his head. Not the pirouette almost-fall and wobble-skate back to the bench.

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04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Stonehands77 View Post
I can't believe they bought that ******** about the Couts hit. Seriously, he jumped to brace himself for an unexpected hit? What a crock. I'll take the 1 game, since it was more than I expected, but I think it should have been more. Asham's I'm OK with, although if it had been longer that wouldn't have drawn many complaints from me.

Very disappointed in Shanahan in the playoffs. I had no problem with him throwing around suspensions in the pre-season. He was the new sheriff in town, had to show who was boss. I would've liked to have seen that continue a bit in the regular season, but the BS about the Shea Weber non-suspension just wrecks credibility. It's going back to the Colin Campbell "Wheel of Justice" approach, where things appear to happen a bit randomly.

Whatever. Just end this one tonight, Flyers, and get some time to heal before the next round.
Backstrom, or someone in the Capitals org, apparently tried to explain his crosscheck to Peverley's shield by saying he was concerned about getting hit, given his concussion history. Therefore, he was justified keeping his stick high.

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