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ECQF Game #4: Rangers at Sens

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04-18-2012, 11:01 PM
  #451
Riche16
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
Where was the time out during Game 2 or Game 3? There were none. We lost one and we won one, barely.

MY original post said that he has/is bad with calling time outs and he sucks with shuffling the lines.
I'm still confused... If it was YOUR post why am I omitting anything?

I'm not a fan of his line juggling but he's not the only couch who does it when things aren't going well. Crosby and Malkin end up on the same line in bad games... His thought may be to get something different, anything. Again, I'm not a fan, but he's the coach, he's won a cup what do I know.

My contention was "he's GREAT at calling TOs". If u don't think so that's fine. But I disagree. Vehemently. The fact that he didn't call 1 in game 2 or 3 doesn't change that. Let's say he's like 90% right... That's 50% better than every other coach in the league. (random #s so don't do the math)

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04-18-2012, 11:02 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
I actually think Dubinsky is doing more than Stepan. Stepan is the one who better wake-up. Outside of that nice shot that Anderson blocked Game 1, he's forgotten how to shoot or clear the puck.
Yes...but this is where you take salary into account. Stepan is on an ELC, Dubi is on his third contract. You can't be paying 4.2 mil. For a third liner.

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04-18-2012, 11:02 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
This Senators team is pretty good, I admit. Some say this was a full effort from the Rangers. Interesting, considering it was so underwhelming.


There's no way this was a full, 100% capability effort from the Rangers. They're capable of a better game than the one they played tonight. Question is whether they can deliver on that...

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04-18-2012, 11:02 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Dantes19 View Post
I agree with you. And is it just me or has the Rangers forecheck been extremely anemic thus far this series?
It's not just you. I knew Ottawa edged us in speed, but they also seem to win a lot of board battles. And their breakouts are so much better than ours. They always exit the zone with authority and speed.

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04-18-2012, 11:04 PM
  #455
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i saw the presser and he's a bad liar. he's not fooling anyone. this team blew two games in this series. they can't put away teams. and i've got news for you... this defensive shell we're always falling into is a product of his system.

no excuse for not battling hard for that 3rd goal. Rangers are far too content just to put a shot on the net and finish their shift. no one wants to make a mistake on this team, and they're playing scared hockey.

safe has been death since Tortorella came to town.
I think "safe is death" was his mantra until he realized that we don't have quite the talent level of most of his Tampa teams.

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04-18-2012, 11:05 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Well technically, if you took the G/G of the Pens and divided it by 4, you'd get a minuscule number, which would still be lower than our G/G.

All I know is, Mr. Gatorade is going to have himself a nerve wracking summer...unless he harnesses the power of the Dubistache.
Well I was exaggerating. But if you take their total today and divide it by 4, you get 2.5 goals which would have given them a win in regulation.

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04-18-2012, 11:06 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Can someone explain if I'm understanding our D correctly. We can defend the hell out of the net. 31 shots with the amount of zone time The Sens are getting is miraculous. Add to that most of those are actually pretty harmless. Our D and forwards just can't get the puck out of their zone and transitioned to the offensive. Am I right? I mean, is it as simple as that? Why can't we get out of our zone and go into the Sens' zone? What's our problem? I can't say we're defending poorly. If I were a Sens fan I'd be frustrated as hell (even in this game even though they won). They just can't get out of the defensive zone and move into the offensive zone and put any sort of pressure on the Sens.
I think they blocked way over 30 shots. But that's their game. Collapse around the net and hope you get a piece of it.

Frankly, the coaching staff should have addressed breakouts many times this season. There's no support from the forwards on the breakout. They look for stretch passes, which get intercepted in the NZ, and that's a big mistake. You don't want to make mistakes against a speedy team in the NZ. Make them go 200ft for their goals. I don't think I've seen short quick passes to eachother in forever now. This team needs to sit down and watch a Red Wings game.

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04-18-2012, 11:08 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
I'm still confused... If it was YOUR post why am I omitting anything?

I'm not a fan of his line juggling but he's not the only couch who does it when things aren't going well. Crosby and Malkin end up on the same line in bad games... His thought may be to get something different, anything. Again, I'm not a fan, but he's the coach, he's won a cup what do I know.

My contention was "he's GREAT at calling TOs". If u don't think so that's fine. But I disagree. Vehemently. The fact that he didn't call 1 in game 2 or 3 doesn't change that. Let's say he's like 90% right... That's 50% better than every other coach in the league. (random #s so don't do the math)
Yep, he doesn't call a time out and the Sens tie up the game, win it in OT, and with the Game 3, we sit back and let Ottawa unload.

Had Boyle's line not iced the puck, highly doubtful he calls a time out.

I'm sorry, what he did in the past doesn't absolve him for what he's NOT doing now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Yes...but this is where you take salary into account. Stepan is on an ELC, Dubi is on his third contract. You can't be paying 4.2 mil. For a third liner.
Oh, I thought you meant just in these playoffs.

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04-18-2012, 11:08 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Well I was exaggerating. But if you take their total today and divide it by 4, you get 2.5 goals which would have given them a win in regulation.
That is quite the sample size you have there! And we scored 5 on Philly once this season...so if you multiply that by 4, the Pens would be a long way from accomplishing that.

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04-18-2012, 11:08 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Can someone explain if I'm understanding our D correctly. We can defend the hell out of the net. 31 shots with the amount of zone time The Sens are getting is miraculous. Add to that most of those are actually pretty harmless. Our D and forwards just can't get the puck out of their zone and transitioned to the offensive. Am I right? I mean, is it as simple as that? Why can't we get out of our zone and go into the Sens' zone? What's our problem? I can't say we're defending poorly. If I were a Sens fan I'd be frustrated as hell (even in this game even though they won). They just can't get out of the defensive zone and move into the offensive zone and put any sort of pressure on the Sens.
Getting out of the zone isnt the necessary problem, problem is holding pressure in the Sens zone. We dump, we chase, we wrap it around behind the net then lose the puck.

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04-18-2012, 11:09 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
I think they blocked way over 30 shots. But that's their game. Collapse around the net and hope you get a piece of it.

Frankly, the coaching staff should have addressed breakouts many times this season. There's no support from the forwards on the breakout. They look for stretch passes, which get intercepted in the NZ, and that's a big mistake. You don't want to make mistakes against a speedy team in the NZ. Make them go 200ft for their goals. I don't think I've seen short quick passes to eachother in forever now. This team needs to sit down and watch a Red Wings game.
I know Nashville is a good team but they're not exactly in a good position themselves. They do pass the eye test better than the Rangers. People watching the Rangers must think they're frauds. I can't blame them.

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04-18-2012, 11:11 PM
  #462
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I don't think anyone here has mentioned the innocuous fact that were getting completely dominated by the Sens in faceoffs.

How many times in a row did Zenon Konopka win a huge faceoff against guys like Richie or Boyle, or Dubi? ZENON FREKIN KONOPKA... dominating us in faceoffs.

How many times did we have a PP faceoff in their zone or an icing when their guys were gassed and they get a critical faceoff win. How about the PP goal we gave up after Girardi got high sticked and Spezza knocked out in the 2nd? Faceoff loss in the D-zone.

Sure we may have been better than on Monday in faceoffs but damn, I didn't realize how brutal of a faceoff team we were and it's killing us. All the little things that aren't working well for us are magnified 100x when you can't win a big faceoff (i.e getting pinned in the defensive zone).

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04-18-2012, 11:12 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Carl Hagelins Flow View Post
I don't think anyone here has mentioned the innocuous fact that were getting completely dominated by the Sens in faceoffs.

How many times in a row did Zenon Konopka win a huge faceoff against guys like Richie or Boyle, or Dubi? ZENON FREKIN KONOPKA... dominating us in faceoffs.

How many times did we have a PP faceoff in their zone or an icing when their guys were gassed and they get a critical faceoff win. How about Spezza's goal on the PK after Girardi got high sticked and no call.

Sure we may have been better than on Monday in faceoffs but damn, I didn't realize how brutal of a faceoff team we were and it's killing us. All the little things that aren't working well for us are magnified 100x when you can't win a big faceoff (i.e getting pinned in the defensive zone).
Zenon Konopka has always been a 4th line face off specialist/tough guy so I wouldn't be too surprised by that.

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04-18-2012, 11:12 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I know Nashville is a good team but they're not exactly in a good position themselves. They do pass the eye test better than the Rangers. People watching the Rangers must think they're frauds. I can't blame them.
Yes I know that. But Detroit's back checking is what's losing this series for them. Their breakouts and puck possession are still in full order. Nashville's winning the goalie duel, and has better defense.

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04-18-2012, 11:12 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Carl Hagelins Flow View Post
This, this, this, this, this and this.

The team is scared.

Our D-men DO NOT PINCH, ever, it seems.

Their D-men pinch fearlessly and relentlessly. I think I saw both of their D-men sitting at the top of the circles for the majority of the time in our zone. There was one instance late in the 3rd where it was a mad scramble in our zone and both their D-men were at the faceoff dots in our zone. They were so confident/cocky we couldn't breakout that they didn't even watch the blue line.

They don't even play a 3rd man high. We are so pinned in our zone its not even funny. Forwards go down so low to help out the D and their D follows right into the high slot.

We have no forecheck once we gain Ottawa's zone. They outmuscle us (except for Boyle) along the boards, it seems like every player is scared to try and carry the puck in but we can't generate anything off the dump and chase like they can.

We clog up the neutral zone so Spezza is neutralized, but Karlsson is free to skate the puck from below his goal line all the way into our high slot with no resistance.

Meanwhile, we can't even seem to skate the puck in on the power play and all you see is our forwards making blind drop passes and passing backwards.

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. We are no 1 seed.

Our D pinch a good amount. Mcdonagh almost had a goal from a pinch. MDZ pinched in 3+ times crashing the net. etc. You cant compare it to the amount Karlson does, but thats a different player.

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04-18-2012, 11:12 PM
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Hagelins Flow View Post
I don't think anyone here has mentioned the innocuous fact that were getting completely dominated by the Sens in faceoffs.

How many times in a row did Zenon Konopka win a huge faceoff against guys like Richie or Boyle, or Dubi? ZENON FREKIN KONOPKA... dominating us in faceoffs.

How many times did we have a PP faceoff in their zone or an icing when their guys were gassed and they get a critical faceoff win. How about Spezza's goal on the PK after Girardi got high sticked and no call.

Sure we may have been better than on Monday in faceoffs but damn, I didn't realize how brutal of a faceoff team we were and it's killing us. All the little things that aren't working well for us are magnified 100x when you can't win a big faceoff (i.e getting pinned in the defensive zone).
And this is precisely why there needs to be a place on this team for Oscar Lindberg. I don't care how offensively inept he is, if he can skate, forecheck, and win faceoffs, he'll be useful.

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04-18-2012, 11:13 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Robs789 View Post
Getting out of the zone isnt the necessary problem, problem is holding pressure in the Sens zone. We dump, we chase, we wrap it around behind the net then lose the puck.
They get into our zone and live there. Getting pressure on them would reduce the amount of times they'd be in our zone, but it wouldn't reduce the amount of time they'd stay there once they get there.

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04-18-2012, 11:19 PM
  #468
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Finally into this thread.

This one stings. Bad. After Game 2 I thought we were good. After this one? No. Ottawa is carrying the play... they have constant 5 on 5 powerplays. EVERY single loose puck tonight found its way to an Ottawa blade. I understand that we play a defensive system that allows opposition puck possession but this is getting ridiculous.

The season hinges on Game 5 at MSG. I fully expect them to show up.

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04-18-2012, 11:21 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post

I'm sorry, what he did in the past doesn't absolve him for what he's NOT doing now.
.
He did call one tonight. At a great time. They did ice the puck, they needed a timeout. We're just going in circles here.

He's been historically great at it. Did it tonight. What's he's done in the past is ALL we're talking about.

I've got news for u it's not the reason this series is 2-2. Hank and a team with no killer instinct is.

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04-18-2012, 11:26 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
Finally into this thread.

This one stings. Bad. After Game 2 I thought we were good. After this one? No. Ottawa is carrying the play... they have constant 5 on 5 powerplays. EVERY single loose puck tonight found its way to an Ottawa blade. I understand that we play a defensive system that allows opposition puck possession but this is getting ridiculous.

The season hinges on Game 5 at MSG. I fully expect them to show up.
I wasn't too worried after game 2. They got dominated in possession in the last 15 minutes of the game but the Rangers were the better team most of the game and the Sens really got a couple of fluke goals. But now we got dominated in 2 straight games and 2 losses is way too close to 4.

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04-18-2012, 11:26 PM
  #471
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This series has become too close for comfort, it's going to go 7 games which we hopefully wins..

Then what? Next round without much rest..

The way we're playing we're lucky to get to game 7...

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04-18-2012, 11:27 PM
  #472
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
They get into our zone and live there. Getting pressure on them would reduce the amount of times they'd be in our zone, but it wouldn't reduce the amount of time they'd stay there once they get there.
All i do is preach puck protection and how important it is, and were really seeing it in the playoffs when the slot or middle ice is less available guys have to work the boards. I mean Dubi was always good at this but has lacked any puck protection recently.

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04-18-2012, 11:28 PM
  #473
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I'm not gonna try to break down this game, except for the fact that I don't think we played as bad as many folks here make it seem. Ottawa had the puck more no doubt, which made it seem like they were controlling the play, but I thought the two teams were overall pretty even in scoring chances. It came down to who can bury it first. Turris sniped it, but we certainly had our chances.

My prediction for game 5: Steve Eminger returns from injury, and scores the winning goal.

Call me crazy.

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04-18-2012, 11:29 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Carl Hagelins Flow View Post
I don't think anyone here has mentioned the innocuous fact that were getting completely dominated by the Sens in faceoffs.

How many times in a row did Zenon Konopka win a huge faceoff against guys like Richie or Boyle, or Dubi? ZENON FREKIN KONOPKA... dominating us in faceoffs.

How many times did we have a PP faceoff in their zone or an icing when their guys were gassed and they get a critical faceoff win. How about the PP goal we gave up after Girardi got high sticked and Spezza knocked out in the 2nd? Faceoff loss in the D-zone.

Sure we may have been better than on Monday in faceoffs but damn, I didn't realize how brutal of a faceoff team we were and it's killing us. All the little things that aren't working well for us are magnified 100x when you can't win a big faceoff (i.e getting pinned in the defensive zone).
Um, that's what ZENON KONOPKA does.

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04-18-2012, 11:31 PM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
This series has become too close for comfort, it's going to go 7 games which we hopefully wins..

Then what? Next round without much rest..

The way we're playing we're lucky to get to game 7...
Boston won the Cup last year after going seven in the first round.

Doesn't matter how you do it. Just win two of three.

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