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Old
04-19-2012, 12:18 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Like someone else mentioned, I think Tortorella was looking to shut down the Sens after that 2-0 lead.

Defensive hockey = no Kreider.
Whatever happened to "Safe is death"?

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04-19-2012, 12:22 PM
  #327
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Need more, not less Kreider. Turn him loose!!!!

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04-19-2012, 12:24 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Like someone else mentioned, I think Tortorella was looking to shut down the Sens after that 2-0 lead.

Defensive hockey = no Kreider.
And this was the problem in both losses. The team became too defensive. They gave up the neutral zone and were much more complacent. You cannot do that with a team that has a threatening offense because of Karlsson. I dont believe OTT has alot of offensive talent but the guys they do have are solid. They shouldnt have taken their foot off the gas, the rangers that is. You saw it in their PP play too. They stopped shooting and attacking the net. More passing and less movement. Torts shouldve kept playing Kreider. There was no reason to sit Kreider and alter his game plan.

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04-19-2012, 02:03 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
And this was the problem in both losses. The team became too defensive. They gave up the neutral zone and were much more complacent. You cannot do that with a team that has a threatening offense because of Karlsson. I dont believe OTT has alot of offensive talent but the guys they do have are solid. They shouldnt have taken their foot off the gas, the rangers that is. You saw it in their PP play too. They stopped shooting and attacking the net. More passing and less movement. Torts shouldve kept playing Kreider. There was no reason to sit Kreider and alter his game plan.
Regardless of whether he played Kreider, the rest of your post is spot on. This whole sit on a 2 goal lead and try to ride it to victory mentality is not gonna get us to the promised land. A two goal lead simply isn't good enough; we have to keep attacking. 2 goals of support means Lundqvist can only give up 1. If Lundqvist gives up 2, the best thing that can happen is we go to OT (which is really seemingly like the worst thing for us). There is no waiting it out and looking for a SO win or a loser point. This is the playoffs and the only way to win is to score. If Torts thinks 2 goals of support is good enough he's asking way too much out of Henrik. I don't care who your goalie is, asking him to win with 2 goals isn't gonna get you far in the playoffs. We need to play a more aggressive game and balance ourselves between strong defensive play and actually attacking on offense. We didn't attack on offense; we sat back and let Ottawa come over and over again and gambled on the fact that we'd be able to hold them. We didn't and we lost. We can't just bet on being able to "hold" the other team every game. We have to go out and attack them.


Also, there's the possibility that if we keep attacking, instead of collapsing back and trying to just hold on to the lead, we spend more time in Ottawa's zone instead of our own and they don't even get that 2nd/3rd goal. I understand our defense is great and clamping down on leads has worked for us most of the season but the opponents are going to be pressing that much harder now and there's no SO/loser point for us to fall back on. We have to win the games outright. Allowing Ottawa to spend that much time in our zone, whether we're blocking tons of shots or not, is a bad game plan. Puck has to spend time in the other end. Lots more of it.

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04-19-2012, 02:27 PM
  #330
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Kreider is no help at this time. He is more of a burden. Playoffs are not a time for tutoring. Sit him, Torts. I would even scratch him, but if we lose the frustrated fans will blame for not playing the possible saviour. So, just sit him, except for 3-4 shifts.


Last edited by 94now: 04-19-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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04-19-2012, 02:34 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Regardless of whether he played Kreider, the rest of your post is spot on. This whole sit on a 2 goal lead and try to ride it to victory mentality is not gonna get us to the promised land..
What? This IS the Rangers identity! The fact that we weren't succsessful in execution should not kill the concept. We should be able to ride to victory after two goals scored! Playing Kreider after 2-0 would have made much less sense than not playing him at all.

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04-19-2012, 02:47 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Kreider is no help at this time. He is more of a burden. Playoffs are not a time for tutoring. Sit him, Torts. I would even scratch him, but if we loose the frustrated fans will blame for not playing the possible saviour. So, just sit him, except for 3-4 shifts.
Hes actually outplayed some of the players on this roster in a limited ice time. Pretty sad..

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04-19-2012, 02:56 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by M0rbid View Post
Hes actually outplayed some of the players on this roster in a limited ice time. Pretty sad..
like whom?

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04-19-2012, 02:57 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What? This IS the Rangers identity! The fact that we weren't succsessful in execution should not kill the concept. We should be able to ride to victory after two goals scored! Playing Kreider after 2-0 would have made much less sense than not playing him at all.
We should be able to ride 2-0 to victory means we expect Hank to only allow one goal per game. Not gonna cut it. It's the playoffs, there's no waiting for the buzzer and counting your guaranteed OT point. You need to attack to win. At least MORE than we did. I'm not saying change the whole damn system, but we need more offensive pressure than we've mustered. Time in Ottawa's zone is time not in our zone. Where's the forecheck and cycle? In the regular season 21 of our 109 points came OT/SO wins or OT loser points. Since we seemingly can't win a 5 on 5 OT in the playoffs, we can't rely on making it to OT to guarantee us a point like we did much of the regular season. Clamp it down, kill the clock, it's okay to be tied at the end of regulation. That worked in the regular season but it won't cut it now. We need at least SOME more offensive pressure.

Edit: I know this is the Kreider thread but I'm not advocating he play Kreider more besides maybe letting him sniff a PP shift. I just think we need to have a bit more sustained pressure if we hope to go far beyond this series.

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04-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #335
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Look, the Rangers are not the more physical team in this series, they are not the aggressors, heck, ourside of the goalie, they are probably NOT the better PO team..but what they are is smart, poised and disciplined where everybody has to play a role and be at the right postion every time...This is a nightmare situation for breaking in a kid like Kreider in the POs...I'm not saying I totally agree with this setup of the Rangers (they need more attacking and skating) but no changing it now...They are what they are...And Krieder doesn't really fit yet through no fault of his own....His play should be limited, especially when Hags comes back...(and why we should have added vets at the deadline, but that's another story)...But I bet you he would have a blast being worked into the Senators lineup!

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04-19-2012, 03:11 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
We should be able to ride 2-0 to victory means we expect Hank to only allow one goal per game. Not gonna cut it. It's the playoffs, there's no waiting for the buzzer and counting your guaranteed OT point. You need to attack to win. At least MORE than we did. I'm not saying change the whole damn system, but we need more offensive pressure than we've mustered. Time in Ottawa's zone is time not in our zone. Where's the forecheck and cycle? In the regular season 21 of our 109 points came OT/SO wins or OT loser points. Since we seemingly can't win a 5 on 5 OT in the playoffs, we can't rely on making it to OT to guarantee us a point like we did much of the regular season. Clamp it down, kill the clock, it's okay to be tied at the end of regulation. That worked in the regular season but it won't cut it now. We need at least SOME more offensive pressure.
Using your wording Not Gonna Cut It.

You cannot attack without offensive talent no matter how much you wish for it. That is why we have the system that presumably allows to win without offense we do not have.
We have less talent upfront than in regular season. Hags is out and Step never was in, really. The only way to win for Torts was to finish the game after first 7 minutes. It is hard to do without right-to-match that is what you got playing away.
The only way was to not allow any or just one goal in 53 minutes. That is why Kreider was warming the bench.

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04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Kreider is no help at this time. He is more of a burden. Playoffs are not a time for tutoring. Sit him, Torts. I would even scratch him, but if we lose the frustrated fans will blame for not playing the possible saviour. So, just sit him, except for 3-4 shifts.
A burden? That statement is just asinine. He didnt do anything to hurt the team. In fact he backed up OTT's defense more because of his threatening speed. And he had a few scoring chances. He has had about 3-4 already. I'm not at all saying him not playing is why we lost. Or even that he should play alot. But him not playing showed Torts had changed his game plam because they were up 2-0. Now that isnt the worst thing if it was 10 minutes left in the 3rd. But to change it with more than 2/3 of the game left was sheer stupidity. This team has been most successful when they are able to pin opposing teams deep in there zone for long periods of time even if they dont score on that shift. They wear teams down. But last night OTT wore them down. The rangers couldve used kreiders speed and size to get pucks deep, win the puck battle and start the cycle. At least sticking with that until the middle of the 3rd period.

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04-19-2012, 03:19 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Using your wording Not Gonna Cut It.

You cannot attack without offensive talent no matter how much you wish for it. That is why we have the system that presumably allows to win without offense we do not have.
We have less talent upfront than in regular season. Hags is out and Step never was in, really. The only way to win for Torts was to finish the game after first 7 minutes. It is hard to do without right-to-match that is what you got playing away.
The only way was to not allow any or just one goal in 53 minutes. That is why Kreider was warming the bench.
I'm not worried about Kreider.

Who is the Sens offensive talent? Alfredsson is out.

They're a team of grinders too. Spezza and Turris have talent and the rest of their forwards are bangers. Karlsson is an elite puck mover, for sure, but MDZ isn't a complete slouch. Richards and Gaborik should be a more dangerous duo than Spezza and Turris. After that, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Boyle, Septan... can't be any less offensively gifted than Foligno, Condra, Butler, Smith, Greening, etc.

I'm not saying we're an offensively talented team, so don't get me wrong. I'm just saying the Sens aren't REALLY one either yet they somehow can attack, attack, attack.

And I'm not saying we should play all attack either. I'm just saying we need to sustain more offensive zone pressure. The puck is in our own end too long for us to win. It's pretty simple. We can block all those shots and play "our game" in our end, but we still can't let the puck spend that much time in our zone. We have to take some pressure off by playing in their end a bit more.

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04-19-2012, 03:30 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Torts had changed his game plam because they were up 2-0. Now that isnt the worst thing if it was 10 minutes left in the 3rd. But to change it with more than 2/3 of the game left was sheer stupidity. This team has been most successful when they are able to pin opposing teams deep in there zone for long periods of time even if they dont score on that shift. They wear teams down. But last night OTT wore them down. The rangers couldve used kreiders speed and size to get pucks deep, win the puck battle and start the cycle. At least sticking with that until the middle of the 3rd period.
I cannot believe I am backing up Torts, but I do. You think OTT didn't know how NYR plays? There is a recipe on how destroy any system. The question is whether the coach is good and whether the team is able to execute such destruction. OTT was able to break Rangers cycling and forecheck without cycling is not as effective. In the 3rd the Rangers made an adjustments and evened things up, but 2nd period was lost hands down and score was tied. We should have won in OT if not for lucky shot of the opposition.
What did Torts need Kreider for? To turn puck over in our zone? Or not to finish after being set up for a goal like Kreider was?

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04-19-2012, 03:30 PM
  #340
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Milan Michalek?

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04-19-2012, 03:37 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
I'm not worried about Kreider.

Who is the Sens offensive talent? Alfredsson is out.

They're a team of grinders too. Spezza and Turris have talent and the rest of their forwards are bangers. Karlsson is an elite puck mover, for sure, but MDZ isn't a complete slouch. Richards and Gaborik should be a more dangerous duo than Spezza and Turris. After that, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Boyle, Septan... can't be any less offensively gifted than Foligno, Condra, Butler, Smith, Greening, etc.

I'm not saying we're an offensively talented team, so don't get me wrong. I'm just saying the Sens aren't REALLY one either yet they somehow can attack, attack, attack.

And I'm not saying we should play all attack either. I'm just saying we need to sustain more offensive zone pressure. The puck is in our own end too long for us to win. It's pretty simple. We can block all those shots and play "our game" in our end, but we still can't let the puck spend that much time in our zone. We have to take some pressure off by playing in their end a bit more.
I don't disagree with entire post.
What I disagree with is one have to change his team game based on score. OTT was down 0-2, yet they continued to play thier game. So they attacked. Torts continued to play NYR game, i.e to defend. That is it!

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04-19-2012, 03:52 PM
  #342
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I actually don't mind the team shelling up into defensive mode AS LONG AS they are keep Ottawa in their own zone and locking down the neutral zone. Too often we are giving them the neutral zone too easily and not just Karlsson, but any number of their plays is able to skate blue line to blue, unmolested, unhindered, not even forcing them to slow down. This is entirely on the forwards though as the defensmen have to respect the skater's speed and back up. Shelling up in our own zone, especially with their offensive players, is just playing with fire. Ottawa adjusted from game one and now it's our turn to turn up the juice! LGR

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