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Should the Ducks retire #9 for Paul Kariya

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Old
04-18-2012, 08:58 PM
  #101
la patineuse
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BTW, I also remember Teemu talking about the trade to the Sharks in one of his blogs this year. He spared nothing in writing about his Gauthier loathing, and was particularly po'd about the way Gauthier notified him of the trade; after assuring Teemu he wouldn't be traded, Gauthier didn't have the cajones to tell Teemu in person---Gauthier left a message on Teemu's voicemail instead.

In discussing the trade, Teemu said NOTHING about Disney's ownership. It was all about his distain for Gauthier.

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04-18-2012, 10:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by la patineuse View Post
What happened between Kariya and the Ducks had nothing to do with Disney ownership. There was a change at Anaheim Sports Management who hired Murray first as coach and then as GM, and Murray brought in Mike Babcock. Murray as GM increased the hockey operations support staff, increased the amateur, north American and European scouting staffs and renovated the Ducks training facilities and video coaching. If you don't think Murray wasn't in charge of hockey operations and made the decisions on hockey personnel, or worse yet, you can't tell the difference in the Duck's organization when Murray was GM versus when Gauthier was GM, then that's unfortunate. Moreover, Murray is pretty respected in the NHL; I doubt he would have put up with being Disney's Pinocchio.


Unless your name is Paul Kariya your first sentence should be prefaced with " in my opinion". It's arrogant to pretend you "know" what happened otherwise.

I also enjoyed your thinly veiled, and quite condescending comment about my opinion being unfortunate. nice.

You dislike Paul Kariya, got it.

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04-18-2012, 11:07 PM
  #103
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i don't think his number should be in the rafters...

only one i think should be up there is 8 when he retires.

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04-18-2012, 11:25 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Unless your name is Paul Kariya your first sentence should be prefaced with " in my opinion". It's arrogant to pretend you "know" what happened otherwise.

I also enjoyed your thinly veiled, and quite condescending comment about my opinion being unfortunate. nice.

You dislike Paul Kariya, got it.
Maybe you should preface "in my opinion" as well as how Disney has a hand in everything. You realize there's a difference between GM's Burke and Murray along with the type of game they wish to endorse. Owner Samueli is an owner; not the GM otherwise there is no need for a GM hiring.

But your accusation that's it's Disney's fault is like saying it's the President's fault for those secret service guys getting a secret service in Colombia or GSA's spending free.

As for this Kariya bit, once again, in my opinion, does not need to have his jersey retired. I understand that players get traded or leave. Selanne's was departure was not of his own. Kariya's was. But the Ducks' org wasn't over-bidded, but rather significantly under-bidded so as to secure an UFA tag to do whatever he wants. Kariya needed $10MM to be qualified. The mgmt didn't think he was worth $10MM, but, as previously mentioned (as well as often mentioned in this thread), the org. wanted to bring in more help for Kariya. Instead, he took $1.2MM from the Avs. Please read into that.

I'm sorry, but as good as stats he put with the Ducks he apparently did not want anything to really do with the Ducks. That's his prerogative. With his statement that he would be back with the team again after the SCF run to the fans and org, and then bolt for pittance showed how valued he thought of the Ducks' org. I can admit Kariya was good here while he was here, but I can also say he hasn't brought a Cup here, won a Conn Smythe, or the Hart award. I know one player on the team that possesses two of the three and another player not with the team that possesses two of the three with the Ducks' org. for both of them. Neither one is named Paul Kariya.

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04-18-2012, 11:25 PM
  #105
la patineuse
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Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Unless your name is Paul Kariya your first sentence should be prefaced with " in my opinion". It's arrogant to pretend you "know" what happened otherwise.

I also enjoyed your thinly veiled, and quite condescending comment about my opinion being unfortunate. nice.

You dislike Paul Kariya, got it.
In any case what I wrote was indeed my opinion, but was also based on interviews i read or heard on the radio when this happened. If you care to do a search on the topic of Kariya's departure, there is a thread here from 2003 that discusses a couple of interviews Randy Youngman did with Kariya and then later a follow up interview with Murray that have some of the details of what transpired. There was also a mailbag response from Youngman a year or two ago when there was some speculation that Kariya might be willing to sign w/ Anaheim(before he announced he was retiring). Youngman's recollection after reviewing his transcripts of the interviews were not all that different from mine really, although he didn't have a problem with Kariya leaving as an UFA without giving the Ducks a chance to negotiate with him when he gave them the impression he would (according to Murray).


Last edited by Unholy: 04-19-2012 at 12:25 AM.
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04-19-2012, 12:24 AM
  #106
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Quite simply, no it shouldn't be retired.

Yes, he has the numbers, tenure with the team, etc... However, when fans look up and see those numbers retired, they should feel pride. That's not what happens when every Duck fan think of Kariya. In fact, I believe that most would view him in a negative way. IMO, the fans are who should decide who should hang in the rafters. Like it or not, Kariya and the Ducks, especially the fans, parted on bad terms. Reason doesn't matter. Most fans think of things like "disrespectful, worm, traitor, etc.." when thinking of Kariya. That's not someone who's number you retire. IMO the only lock is Selanne. Jiggy is next, although I definitely wouldn't call it a lock. I don't think Scotty's should be retired, but I could live with it. Niedermayer is what turned this team from joke to champ, well if you had to give one player the most credit it'd be him for sure IMO.

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04-19-2012, 12:44 AM
  #107
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wait... like can't we just honour the numbers? then we can put up #8, #9 and #24.

If a special player comes along, they get to wear the number.

No reason we won't do this for #10 and #15 either.

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04-19-2012, 01:27 AM
  #108
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Paul Kariya was one of the most talented players ever to play here.

Paul Kariya was one of the most self centered, lying, SOBs to ever play here. What many people forget and many others are too young to ever know was that Paul Kariya during his time here publicly spoke of how few players ever get to play their whole career with one team and how he really wanted to do that. He mentioned it more than once. Then after the SCF in 2003 he told us how he wanted to be back to win it next time. And then he pulls his little stunt of bolting to Colorado because he thinks he has a better chance to win the Cup there? What a lying little sack of feces.

Let us also not forget he sat out half a year in a contract dispute.

Now before some Kariya fanboy tells me it was his right to do those things, don't. I'm quite aware it was his right. But don't go blowing smoke up my rectum about how much you care about the fans yaddy, yaddy, yaddy and then pull the crap you did, Mr. Kariya.

Karma is why Paul Kariya has no Stanley Cup ring. And I don't ever want to see anything that reminds me of that little punk any time I set foot in that arena.

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04-19-2012, 12:54 PM
  #109
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Bobby Ryan tweeted "i was given the number because it will never be retired". Would have to assume he was told that by management.

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04-19-2012, 01:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Selanne138 View Post
Bobby Ryan tweeted "i was given the number because it will never be retired". Would have to assume he was told that by management.
Ryan was just alluding tot he fact that his number will never hang in the rafters. And if it does, it'll be slightly lower than Getzlaf's.

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04-19-2012, 01:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
wait... like can't we just honour the numbers? then we can put up #8, #9 and #24.

If a special player comes along, they get to wear the number.

No reason we won't do this for #10 and #15 either.
Better yet, is honor the person, forget the number issue, I wouldn't have a problem with PK's banner in the rafters.

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04-19-2012, 04:54 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sirquacksalot View Post
Ryan was just alluding tot he fact that his number will never hang in the rafters. And if it does, it'll be slightly lower than Getzlaf's.
I dont think so, it was in response to a guy who asked whether he would change his number because it could possibly be retired soon. Seems like he was told that its his number and Kariya wont be recognized.

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04-19-2012, 06:17 PM
  #113
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How many of your mothers did he ****? Lol

So much hate for something so stupid... Are you guys the same idiot fans that yell and start fights at an arena because someone is wearing a different sweater than you?

If you don't believe his number should be retired no harm no foul... To carry a grudge on an individual that you don't have the slightest idea of for something you will truly never know is simply embarrassing. Baring the fact you worked for the organization at the top or are related to the man himself you will never know the dirty details.

Fans need to realize these athletes aren't supposed to be there personal puppets.

......

Damn I come off as some sentimental ***** Kariya nut hugger. Lol...

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04-19-2012, 07:45 PM
  #114
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Paul Kariya was one of the most talented players ever to play here.

Paul Kariya was one of the most self centered, lying, SOBs to ever play here. What many people forget and many others are too young to ever know was that Paul Kariya during his time here publicly spoke of how few players ever get to play their whole career with one team and how he really wanted to do that. He mentioned it more than once. Then after the SCF in 2003 he told us how he wanted to be back to win it next time. And then he pulls his little stunt of bolting to Colorado because he thinks he has a better chance to win the Cup there? What a lying little sack of feces.

Let us also not forget he sat out half a year in a contract dispute.

Now before some Kariya fanboy tells me it was his right to do those things, don't. I'm quite aware it was his right. But don't go blowing smoke up my rectum about how much you care about the fans yaddy, yaddy, yaddy and then pull the crap you did, Mr. Kariya.

Karma is why Paul Kariya has no Stanley Cup ring. And I don't ever want to see anything that reminds me of that little punk any time I set foot in that arena.
yeah......... NO. Kariya has no Stanley Cup because of the 2003 New Jersey Devils, nothing else.



to say Paul Kariya lost the cup because of Karma is just complete crap though. Worse people have won the Stanley Cup, long before Paul and the Ducks made it to game 7.


Last edited by Seanconn*: 04-20-2012 at 12:38 AM.
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04-19-2012, 07:57 PM
  #115
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yeah......... NO. Kariya has no Stanley Cup because of the 2003 New Jersey Devils, nothing else.
If Kariya actually showed up in that series, maybe he would have a Stanley Cup ring. Outside of game 6, he was awful.

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04-19-2012, 07:59 PM
  #116
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If Kariya actually showed up in that series, maybe he would have a Stanley Cup ring. Outside of game 6, he was awful.
yeah... well maybe. but blaming it on karma = WEAK lol...

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04-19-2012, 08:02 PM
  #117
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How many of your mothers did he ****? Lol

So much hate for something so stupid... Are you guys the same idiot fans that yell and start fights at an arena because someone is wearing a different sweater than you?

If you don't believe his number should be retired no harm no foul... To carry a grudge on an individual that you don't have the slightest idea of for something you will truly never know is simply embarrassing. Baring the fact you worked for the organization at the top or are related to the man himself you will never know the dirty details.

Fans need to realize these athletes aren't supposed to be there personal puppets.

......

Damn I come off as some sentimental ***** Kariya nut hugger. Lol...
lol this.

Also, if Paul Kariya had stayed with the Ducks, would the team still have made the moves to sign nieds, trade for pronger, or would Teemu have even had a spot on the team post lockout?


Who the **** knows.... but Kariya leaving definitely didn't have some HUGE negative effect on the Ducks...

he left... then we win the Stanley Cup a few seasons later.

If anything, I think people are just mad Paul kariya wasn't there to win the cup for the Ducks... so they post angry posts about how horrible Kariya.... when really... they just wanted to see him win a cup in Anaheim.

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04-19-2012, 09:51 PM
  #118
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I'm not mad that Karyia didn't win the cup with us, sort of happy even. It worked out perfectly, he left us high and dry, we go on and win a SC a few years later, and Kariya achieved nothing in his career after leaving.

Win win situation

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04-19-2012, 10:44 PM
  #119
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I'm not mad that Karyia didn't win the cup with us, sort of happy even. It worked out perfectly, he left us high and dry, we go on and win a SC a few years later, and Kariya achieved nothing in his career after leaving.

Win win situation
win win... give me a break. Paul Kariya went through hell with concussions. He'd be playing today if it wasn't for Gary Suter.

Kariya deserves to have his #9 honoured in the rafters of the Pond.

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04-19-2012, 10:47 PM
  #120
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win win... give me a break. Paul Kariya went through hell with concussions. He'd be playing today if it wasn't for Gary Suter.

Kariya deserves to have his #9 honoured in the rafters of the Pond.
What do concussions have to do with anything? I didn't mention anything about concussions.

Get over it, some people still like Kariya, others don't. It's how it will be forever.

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04-19-2012, 11:08 PM
  #121
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As great as some of you make Kariya out to be, does Kariya own a Hart or a Conn Smythe Trophy? Those are the new standards if you don't have a Cup under your name. Teemu has the Cup under his name. Kariya wasn't here for that.

JS brought more prestige to this org than Kariya.

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04-19-2012, 11:32 PM
  #122
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Teemu= face of franchise, stanley Cup winner, all time great, fan favorite,
played for a home team discount
Scotty= Franchise changer, cup, all time league great
Paul=left rather than give home town discount

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04-20-2012, 12:24 AM
  #123
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I'm not mad that Karyia didn't win the cup with us, sort of happy even. It worked out perfectly, he left us high and dry, we go on and win a SC a few years later, and Kariya achieved nothing in his career after leaving.

Win win situation
This.

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04-20-2012, 05:23 AM
  #124
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lol this.

Also, if Paul Kariya had stayed with the Ducks, would the team still have made the moves to sign nieds, trade for pronger, or would Teemu have even had a spot on the team post lockout?


Who the **** knows.... but Kariya leaving definitely didn't have some HUGE negative effect on the Ducks...

he left... then we win the Stanley Cup a few seasons later.

If anything, I think people are just mad Paul kariya wasn't there to win the cup for the Ducks... so they post angry posts about how horrible Kariya.... when really... they just wanted to see him win a cup in Anaheim.
Youre REALLY reaching with this one. People mad because they wanted to see Kariya win a cup with the Ducks? No one gives two ***** whether Kariya won a cup, they wanted to see the Ducks win a cup, which Kariya did not deliver. He played like **** in 6 of 7 games in his one chance.

Him leaving the franchise was the best thing that ever happened to the franchise, because post lockout we became competitive spenders, which we wouldnt have been able to do with Kariya's 10 million dollar salary, and this led us to a cup.

Between the way he left and his lack of team success while here, no his number should not be retired. Seeing Ryan wear 9 is a tell tale for me that management agrees.

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04-20-2012, 05:52 AM
  #125
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Him leaving the franchise was the best thing that ever happened to the franchise, because post lockout we became competitive spenders, which we wouldnt have been able to do with Kariya's 10 million dollar salary, and this led us to a cup.
so why do we still need to **** all over the guy? him leaving clearly helped us. I don't care about what he said to who or what not. If Kariya really wanted money, he would have played for the Ducks and stayed there at a nice home town discount of two million. Really. If Kariya had just stayed with the Ducks, he would have a lot more money, and who knows might even still be playing.

Instead sticking with the Ducks, he tried to reunite with Teemu, but neither had the opportunity or health to make anything happen with the Avs. I really became a full fledged Duck fan again, when Teemu came back.

for a lot of fans, it was great to see Selanne and Kariya play a couple of times together with the Avs. I'm still pretty disappointed he didn't come back in 2010/2011. Him and Teemu would have definitely had higher point totals if they were playing on a line with Koivu.

I plead ignorance to a lot of the nitty gritty sports center sound bites of the Paul Kariya "trade/quit" from the Ducks to the Avs... but it was so long ago, I'd rather remember him and Teemu playing together in the 1990's, putting the franchise on the map.

Everyone is so glad it's Teemu got the Cup, not Paul. But hot damn would it have been amazing to see Teemu and Paul win a cup together. I really think he could have helped us in the playoffs last year. oh well. I hope we just do exactly what the Leafs do. It's the one thing I like about the Leafs, it's not a cluster **** of #'s on the ice, because sometimes, players get to wear the numbers.

Kariya's number shouldn't be retired. The only number worthy of retirement is Teemu's #8. But to keep things consistent, we could just honour Teemu's number 8. If anyone has big enough balls to request that number, they better ask Teemu really nice, and ensue a giant beak fest from the entire team.

on the topic of retired numbers... it's so stupid EA retired 99 for the whole league. Ovechkin had to switch to number 88 instead, on my be a gm Ducks team.


Last edited by Seanconn*: 04-20-2012 at 06:02 AM.
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