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Dont wanna beat a dead horse...(Dubinksy)

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Old
04-19-2012, 08:49 PM
  #26
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I wouldn't be surprised if he's traded this summer or next season.

However, as far as the playoffs go, even though he hasn't appeared on the scoresheet, I don't think he's played that horribly. He was great in Game 1. Everyone keeps saying they were disappointed in him in Game 3 , but Boyle's goal doesn't happen without Dubinsky carrying the puck up the ice and evading two defenders in the neutral zone to get the puck deep in the Senator's zone. He was bad yesterday but then again so was every single one of our other forwards.

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04-19-2012, 09:04 PM
  #27
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Dubisnky's biggest problem this series was not showing up in game 2.

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04-19-2012, 09:15 PM
  #28
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He's been terrible this series. I would write it off as a bad second half. He has, in my opinion, too many intangibles to dump, and there will be a long queue of suitors for Dubi. I think that this guys cares too much and putting too much pressure on himself instead of just going out and play. Can't base all decisions on emotion even though if I were a Ranger fan I would be very frustrated. Like I am with Spezza.

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04-19-2012, 10:39 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayQueensNY88 View Post
I hate giving up on the kid.But Im thinking if Dubi doesnt step up in these playoffs,hes as good as gone man.
Parise

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Old
04-19-2012, 10:58 PM
  #30
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This series will have a huge impact on what offseason moves are made including guys like Dubi and also probably Arty even though I love him.

Dubi was pretty bad last night and I've been fair with him all year.

If you all remember in 1991 after the playoff implosion to the Caps Neil Smith got rid of quite a few of the guys who a year earlier won the Patrick Division (Kissio, Mullen, Froese, Mallete, Greschner, Shaw, etc.)

Also after 1983 when Duguay had an off year very similiar to Dubi's he was traded to Detroit because Herb Brooks got tired of his partying.

If the Rangers don't get their act together, their will be one or two major changes but a few of the guys we love may be shipped out.

I expect a major trade to go down for either a feisty scoring winger (Clowe?) or someone with a big shot (ByFuglien who has had knee problems this year).

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Old
04-19-2012, 11:17 PM
  #31
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All for trading him in the offseason.

The tell-tale sign was his **** effort in Game 3. I expected a madman after he was thrown out. All we got was a lazy ice-time plug.

Though he is 100% the type of player that would haunt us in every aspect if we traded him lol.

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:23 AM
  #32
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He's been better than Step

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:25 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
I'm know Dubi isn't Gabby, but he's a great all around player that has many more aspects to his game than Gaborik, not necessarily making him more valuable than Gaborik (let's face it, it's not even a comparison) but making him valuable in his own way. The only problem with Dubi is his goal scoring, every other facet of his game has been fine.

Before this year, Dubi's career average in goals was about 18 and assists was 27. This year Dubi put up 10 goals and 24 assists. That's about an 56% decrease in goal scoring compared to his career average. His assists were pretty much on par. It's not worth nit picking him over 3 less assists, so that part of his game was fine. +/- you always take with a grain of salt, but he was a +16 this year compared to other guys we view as defensive specialists/ penalty killers such as Boyle (+2), Anisimov (+12), and Callahan (-8).

All in all the Dubi we saw this year is the Dubi we've always known with the exception of him not putting it in the net as frequently. He's had the same amount of chances, he's just been flubbing on a lot of them. This could come from the pressure of living up to his new contract. Dubinsky is someone with a lot of pride. I personally see him putting in a killer summer and being more focused than ever to have a career year next year. Considering goal scoring is essentially the only part of his game missing, it is definitely worth the risk to keep him next year and bet that he puts in goal totals closer to, or greater than his career average while maintaining what he's always brought to the table.
I do suppose you do watch the games and not just the stats, but Dubi really doesn't do "everything else right", he is a no show for most games and have been all season long. It seems like he has lot a bit of his edge, he's not burning like he used to do. And that has nothing to do with his numbers. I'm not 100% in for trading him, since his value is all time low, but our need for scoring is urgent and if Slats believes we can land Parise he will be traded.

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:36 AM
  #34
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I have a problem with his decision making, his turnovers in the neutral zone and his inability to go hard to the net and finish like he was doing last year. I have no problem with his compete level though- the guy has heart and he cares.

I don't know him, but he seems like a little bit of a headcase too. A couple of seasons ago, Tort's made a comment about his cockiness or something to that effect. When I think about the team this year, he is really the only guy who underachieved at all.

I was half expecting him to have a Brian Boyle-like playoff. Could still happen.

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Old
04-20-2012, 04:41 AM
  #35
mrhockey193195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
Five year age difference is key. Dubi is what he is. An incredibly inconsistent player with a questionable hockey iq.
if you honestly believe that a player cannot improve or become more consistent after the age of 26, then I don't know what to tell you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Dubinksy on the other hand has not proven anything except that he is inconsistent and overpaid. There is nothing that guarantees he magically becomes a 60 point guy consistently. Why should anyone have faith that this is a down year and that he'll finally do something consistent next year and beyond?
Because aside from this season, he has improved his offensive and defensive game every single season he's been in the NHL. He's had ONE off year. There are only a handful of NHL players in history who have not had off years, and their names are Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Bossy, etc.

I've thrown this around before, and I'll do it again just because I think it makes a good point:

AGE GP G A P
20 3 2 1 3
21 31 4 8 12
22 48 11 9 20
23 15 0 7 7
24 54 14 21 35
25 67 21 30 51
26 41 6 5 11


Seeing those stats, I can just imagine some of you guys screaming "That player should be traded", and "he's too inconsistent: he dropped from 51 points to 11, he is what he is, and he regressed badly this past year, he'll never amount to anything more." Funny thing is, those are the stats of Jean Ratelle.

Dubinsky is not half the player that Ratelle is, nor do I think he ever will be, but there are countless players who turned it on in their mid-to-late twenties after inconsistent starts to their careers where you always thought they could give more (if you really want me to start a list of players, I'll do it). The point I'm making is that it's ridiculous to write off Dubinsky because of one bad year at the age of 25, after several seasons of inconsistent but promising player. Also, some of you guys would've been calling for Ratelle to be traded after the 1966-67 season, which I think is hysterical.


Last edited by mrhockey193195: 04-20-2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old
04-20-2012, 06:32 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
if you honestly believe that a player cannot improve or become more consistent after the age of 26, then I don't know what to tell you.




Because aside from this season, he has improved his offensive and defensive game every single season he's been in the NHL. He's had ONE off year. There are only a handful of NHL players in history who have not had off years, and their names are Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Bossy, etc.

I've thrown this around before, and I'll do it again just because I think it makes a good point:

AGE GP G A P
20 3 2 1 3
21 31 4 8 12
22 48 11 9 20
23 15 0 7 7
24 54 14 21 35
25 67 21 30 51
26 41 6 5 11


Seeing those stats, I can just imagine some of you guys screaming "That player should be traded", and "he's too inconsistent: he dropped from 51 points to 11, he is what he is, and he regressed badly this past year, he'll never amount to anything more." Funny thing is, those are the stats of Jean Ratelle.

Dubinsky is not half the player that Ratelle is, nor do I think he ever will be, but there are countless players who turned it on in their mid-to-late twenties after inconsistent starts to their careers where you always thought they could give more (if you really want me to start a list of players, I'll do it). The point I'm making is that it's ridiculous to write off Dubinsky because of one bad year at the age of 25, after several seasons of inconsistent but promising player. Also, some of you guys would've been calling for Ratelle to be traded after the 1966-67 season, which I think is hysterical.
Great post. Again is there a deal out there somewhere to move Dubinsky? Sure--but I'm not in any rush to move him. Dubinsky's been with us 5 years now and this is the first years he's produced under 40 points. So one could say that this is an outlier year for him and expect he'll be back in the 45-50 point range again next year but even if not--and there are reasons he might not that have more to do with the competition for ice time at the center and left wing positions-his overall game is a huge asset to the team.

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Old
04-20-2012, 06:36 AM
  #37
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The Rangers don't need another long term contract with the CBA expiring in September. 5 months away. It was don't worry about the CBA. We still have 2 or 3 years to worry about it. The Rangers have some big commitments on the books and some future commitments down the road. The cap is not going to increase $25M in the next CBA. The Rangers have $47M committed for next season. $40M committed for 13-14 which doesn't include McDonagh(arbitration),Stepan,Hagelin(arbitration), Anisimov(arbitration) and DZ(arbitration) who is a group II this summer. 4 out of the 5 are must signs. Stepan has 96 points in his first 2 seasons. He is 21 years old. Even if you subtract Dubinsky's $4.2M,its $36M with 8 players signed. The cap stays in the $60M-$64M range,the Rangers have a problem. Too many unknowns.

Gaborik has 105 goals in his first 3 seasons as a Ranger. Two 40 goal seasons. Over the next 2 years,he is a better buy than Nash or Parise. Shorter term deal. Its hard to make the numbers fit with Gaborik and another big money forward on the roster plus fill out the roster with good depth. The Rangers have the least amount of money invested on D. That's going to change with McDonagh and DZ getting new contracts.

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Old
04-20-2012, 08:47 AM
  #38
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I have always defended him but he's making it harder and harder to do so.

If he's going to have a down season he needs to step up in the post season. That's not happening and I'm beggining to question his place on this squad a bit.

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04-20-2012, 09:17 AM
  #39
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I don't know who's looking to trade for THIS Dubinsky @ $4.2M for the next 3 years. I'd guess it's only someone with a bigger and more expensive problem they're looking to unload. You're not getting valuable assets unless you're giving up some.

With his value at an all time low, I'm probably inclined to stick with him at this point.

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Old
04-20-2012, 10:17 AM
  #40
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The free agent market stinks. Teams will need to make trades if they want to improve their teams and change their mix. Dubinsky can play both wing and center. Not one of these Dubinsky for a 2nd round pick and a marginal player proposals. The Leafs would take him in a second but they don't have anything to trade unless they want to trade Jake Gardiner which they don't. They want to add size to their lineup.

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Old
04-20-2012, 10:22 AM
  #41
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I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Washington is interested in Dubinsky. Or Buffalo. Or Calgary.

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Old
04-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
if you honestly believe that a player cannot improve or become more consistent after the age of 26, then I don't know what to tell you.




Because aside from this season, he has improved his offensive and defensive game every single season he's been in the NHL. He's had ONE off year. There are only a handful of NHL players in history who have not had off years, and their names are Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Bossy, etc.

I've thrown this around before, and I'll do it again just because I think it makes a good point:

AGE GP G A P
20 3 2 1 3
21 31 4 8 12
22 48 11 9 20
23 15 0 7 7
24 54 14 21 35
25 67 21 30 51
26 41 6 5 11


Seeing those stats, I can just imagine some of you guys screaming "That player should be traded", and "he's too inconsistent: he dropped from 51 points to 11, he is what he is, and he regressed badly this past year, he'll never amount to anything more." Funny thing is, those are the stats of Jean Ratelle.

Dubinsky is not half the player that Ratelle is, nor do I think he ever will be, but there are countless players who turned it on in their mid-to-late twenties after inconsistent starts to their careers where you always thought they could give more (if you really want me to start a list of players, I'll do it). The point I'm making is that it's ridiculous to write off Dubinsky because of one bad year at the age of 25, after several seasons of inconsistent but promising player. Also, some of you guys would've been calling for Ratelle to be traded after the 1966-67 season, which I think is hysterical.
I think you make an excellent point here. Thanks for putting this together. Here is the problem that I am having with Dubinsky. Before this year, even when he was not scoring, he was doing things, often very visible, to help the team win. A game at Calgary at the start of the season was the perfect example.

Dubinsky takes the puck off a pass in his own zone skates around defenders into the Flames zone. Dubinsky maintains possession, makes a pass to Girardi who makes a slap pass around the net to an undefended McD, who easily puts the puck home.

Dubinsky was always good at bringing the passion. That's what created the play above. That is what is lacking now. We've seen very little in the way of strong effort from Dubinsky this year. Anyone who is a fan of Dubinsky understands that he is having a bad season, but something is different. There is very little attack to his game. Seemingly very little passion. Before the playoffs started, Dubinsky promised that he would be a factor.

It's easy for a fan to say this. I understand that. But if the puck is not going in , just keep shooting it. Keep driving the net. Keep banging the body. If nothing else, grab the puck, take it into a corner, and hold it there.

The Rangers can win w/o Dubinsky playing his usual game, but it will be that much tougher. We have to stop hearing words from this guy and start seeing something on the ice.

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Old
04-20-2012, 10:27 AM
  #43
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IF Slats gets the right offer this offseason, Dubinsky is gone. Though I don't see this happening and he'll have the start of next season to show he's turned things around. But certainly at this point, he's very movable because role players can be traded.

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04-20-2012, 10:36 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
if you honestly believe that a player cannot improve or become more consistent after the age of 26, then I don't know what to tell you.




Because aside from this season, he has improved his offensive and defensive game every single season he's been in the NHL. He's had ONE off year. There are only a handful of NHL players in history who have not had off years, and their names are Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, Bossy, etc.

I've thrown this around before, and I'll do it again just because I think it makes a good point:

AGE GP G A P
20 3 2 1 3
21 31 4 8 12
22 48 11 9 20
23 15 0 7 7
24 54 14 21 35
25 67 21 30 51
26 41 6 5 11


Seeing those stats, I can just imagine some of you guys screaming "That player should be traded", and "he's too inconsistent: he dropped from 51 points to 11, he is what he is, and he regressed badly this past year, he'll never amount to anything more." Funny thing is, those are the stats of Jean Ratelle.

Dubinsky is not half the player that Ratelle is, nor do I think he ever will be, but there are countless players who turned it on in their mid-to-late twenties after inconsistent starts to their careers where you always thought they could give more (if you really want me to start a list of players, I'll do it). The point I'm making is that it's ridiculous to write off Dubinsky because of one bad year at the age of 25, after several seasons of inconsistent but promising player. Also, some of you guys would've been calling for Ratelle to be traded after the 1966-67 season, which I think is hysterical.
I agree that players have down years and shouldn't be traded because of one down year, especially, early in their career. However, there's a difference between a slow start to a career because of injuries and a healthy player who's turning south. I also don't recall Jean Ratelle potentially hurting his relationship with organization management by holding out during contract negotiations, nor did Ratelle play when there was a salary cap. Data without context can be deceiving.

You can also tell when a skilled player is putting his game together or when you have a player who has gotten, pretty much as good as he can get. One you have a lot more patience with and you've already agreed that Dubinsky doesn't have the same ceiling as Ratelle.


AGE GP G A P
22 68 30 17 47
23 79 22 18 40
24 47 6 13 19
25 79 13 9 22
26 11 0 1 1
And that's not Dubinsky either, It's Petr Prucha. Is Dubinsky's offensive upside more like Ratelle or more like Prucha? Because if he's going the way of Prucha (DOWN), then we best move him while he has some kind of value. Both Dubinsky and Prucha had the Jagr effect in common.


Last edited by vipernsx: 04-20-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old
04-20-2012, 10:36 AM
  #45
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I like Dubi, but he looks lost out there. He should be making a difference right now, but it's just the opposite. Ever since he got his nose busted his game has been soft.

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04-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I think you make an excellent point here. Thanks for putting this together. Here is the problem that I am having with Dubinsky. Before this year, even when he was not scoring, he was doing things, often very visible, to help the team win. A game at Calgary at the start of the season was the perfect example.

Dubinsky takes the puck off a pass in his own zone skates around defenders into the Flames zone. Dubinsky maintains possession, makes a pass to Girardi who makes a slap pass around the net to an undefended McD, who easily puts the puck home.

Dubinsky was always good at bringing the passion. That's what created the play above. That is what is lacking now. We've seen very little in the way of strong effort from Dubinsky this year. Anyone who is a fan of Dubinsky understands that he is having a bad season, but something is different. There is very little attack to his game. Seemingly very little passion. Before the playoffs started, Dubinsky promised that he would be a factor.

It's easy for a fan to say this. I understand that. But if the puck is not going in , just keep shooting it. Keep driving the net. Keep banging the body. If nothing else, grab the puck, take it into a corner, and hold it there.

The Rangers can win w/o Dubinsky playing his usual game, but it will be that much tougher. We have to stop hearing words from this guy and start seeing something on the ice.
Dubinsky did something similar to this get the puck deep on Boyle's goal in Game 3. Dubi wins a battle to the puck in his own zone, avoids two checks in the neutral zone, and gets the puck deep while being hit by Gonchar which enables Cally to retrieve the puck on the forecheck.

I think the passion is still there. If it wasn't, he would have just stood around in Game 2 while Carkner beat on Boyle.

However, what is often missing is his brain. He overthinks things and hesitates. His decision-making, which was never so exceptional to begin with, was pretty poor this year. It took him awhile to score his first goal this year and it probably messed with his head a bit. Lack of confidence has been a major issue for him this year.

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Old
04-20-2012, 10:54 AM
  #47
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When does next season start? It will curious to see how much activity there is this summer. The few big free agents will get paid. Bettman said business as usual but its not. The upper limit set in June will be lowered in the next CBA. Some teams want one way contracts to count against the cap even if the player is in the AHL. One guy reports there will be compliance/amnsety buyouts while someone else says no but adds it could be part of the negotiations. The NHL proposed that but the PA didn't want it. CBA expires 9/15 and Fehr will get serious about negotiating a new CBA on 9/14. The NFL and NBA saw free agent/trading period after their CBA was done but they never had an off season because of the lockout.

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04-20-2012, 11:05 AM
  #48
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I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Washington is interested in Dubinsky. Or Buffalo. Or Calgary.
Send him West. Kid has all the makings of someone who will haunt the Rangers.

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04-20-2012, 11:08 AM
  #49
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I'm sure most of this board agrees with you, I know I do

Its not even just that he's been frustrating this year, its also the fact that I am just so disappointed at the level he is playing at now.... A few years ago I thought Dubinsky was going to be a great 'career' ranger.
Agree 100%. We all love Dubi because him and Cally were the first of our current crop of homegrown talent having both been picked in the 2004 draft along with Sauer who we traded for and picked. Cally and Dubi's career were on the same path until Dubi's performance fell by the wayside this year. The biggest issue I see is his compete level has fallen off and his confidence has taken a major hit. If we keep him, we're taking a chance that he will bounce back to the production level he reached in the 2010/11 season.
Personally, I don't see that happening; I think we're looking at a 12-15 goal/35-40 point player from this point forward which is unacceptable at his cap hit.

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04-20-2012, 11:13 AM
  #50
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Jean Ratelle- I see what you did there.

Good one.

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