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Would you trade Dan Boyle to shake up the team in the offseason?

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Old
04-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  #51
Pinkfloyd
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You don't trade Boyle to shake up the team. This decision is much tougher and more complex than about shaking up the team. Moving Dan Boyle is about figuring out what this team is going to be in the two years he has left here. There's no guarantee he will play after that and, if he does, play here. Doug Wilson will have to ask himself if he sees this team as being Cup ready in the next two seasons. Are the issues that need to be repaired fixable in the two year window that is Boyle's contract. If it's going to take longer, and in my mind it will, you have to trade Boyle come July. That is when trading him opens up and where he will have the most value because the longer he plays and the longer into his contract we get, the less his value is.

If there were windows in the contracts of Havlat, Thornton, and Marleau, I would say the same thing at this point. As much as I would prefer to keep Marleau and Havlat as I think they are more geared towards the solution this team needs to go to, you still have to see what's out there for them and whether it will improve the team or not.

If the team moves Boyle, it at least opens up the option of playing Burns with the top talent more plus it allows both Demers and Braun to play their natural side, if you decide against signing Brad Stuart. It also gives you the flexibility of looking for the best deal rather than completely focusing on team needs. They can use more puck-movers on the left side and it'd be better if that was their natural position. They can use more youth and speed up front. But they can take back a young right d-man and move Braun or Demers out to make room and address other things if necessary.

Yes, you get worse by moving Boyle but they just aren't at a point where things can be fixed in the two years he has left so they have to get something for him while they can.

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04-20-2012, 03:27 PM
  #52
Gilligans Island
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IF we trade Boyle, his value will be maximized on a team that is (a) a contender or close to being one and (b) needs a #1PP and PMD.

Which teams fit that criteria?

Avs or Devils? They're the only ones I can think of

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04-20-2012, 03:33 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
IF we trade Boyle, his value will be maximized on a team that is (a) a contender or close to being one and (b) needs a #1PP and PMD.

Which teams fit that criteria?

Avs or Devils? They're the only ones I can think of
I would say the Rangers would be one. Flyers would probably be another if Carle exits.

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04-20-2012, 03:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I would say the Rangers would be one. Flyers would probably be another if Carle exits.
I thought the Rangers were stacked at D already. Maybe just lack a PMD.

I could see the Flyers being a good trade partner - lots of young fwd talent.

I could see Boyle NOT listing any of those 4 as "teams he wouldn't accept a trade to" so Sharks have good options.

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04-20-2012, 03:40 PM
  #55
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I wouldn't trade Boyle. My prediction for next year's D:

Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Boyle
Murray - Demers/Braun
#7 UFA depth D man

I think the Todd will take the fall and we will see a new coaching staff this summer.

I also think one of Demers/Braun will be traded for a young forward and there will be a shake-up in our top 6.

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04-20-2012, 03:42 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I thought the Rangers were stacked at D already. Maybe just lack a PMD.

I could see the Flyers being a good trade partner - lots of young fwd talent.

I could see Boyle NOT listing any of those 4 as "teams he wouldn't accept a trade to" so Sharks have good options.
The Rangers have Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Sauer, and Stralman that have contracts next year or are restricted. They have a healthy amount of talent but it's mostly focused on the defensive side of things. None of those guys are real top end PMD or PP QB's. Plus, I would assume that Torts would love and push to acquire Boyle.

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04-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
I wouldn't trade Boyle. My prediction for next year's D:

Vlasic - Burns
Stuart - Boyle
Murray - Demers/Braun
#7 UFA depth D man

I think the Todd will take the fall and we will see a new coaching staff this summer.

I also think one of Demers/Braun will be traded for a young forward and there will be a shake-up in our top 6.
Murray needs to be gone, he's becoming a subpar Defenseman and he's always getting injured.

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04-20-2012, 04:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The Rangers have Staal, Girardi, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Sauer, and Stralman that have contracts next year or are restricted. They have a healthy amount of talent but it's mostly focused on the defensive side of things. None of those guys are real top end PMD or PP QB's. Plus, I would assume that Torts would love and push to acquire Boyle.
Rangers desperately need a top-pairing PMD and #1PPQB. They have Girardi and Richards running their PP, which is sad.

If we were to trade Boyle to the Rangers, Hagelin is the first guy I'd ask about. I love his wheels and his hands. I also thing Dubinsky would be a fantastic buy-low.

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04-20-2012, 04:26 PM
  #59
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Trade Boyle + whatever for a top 10 pick draft Forsberg and then sign Suter.

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04-20-2012, 04:26 PM
  #60
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Yes, lets trade our best defenseman, the quarterback of our team, thats smart. I'm not sure what needs to be done, but trading Boyle is definitely not the answer.

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04-20-2012, 04:32 PM
  #61
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Yes, lets trade our best defenseman, the quarterback of our team, thats smart. I'm not sure what needs to be done, but trading Boyle is definitely not the answer.
Have you seen him this series? He's been horrible. He's held the puck far too long, coughs it up at the wrong time, and his skating if definitely declining. Combined with the fact that Burns, in my eyes, has really emerged in this series and I'm ready for him to be our all-situations #1. He's miles better defensively than Boyle (I'd say he's our second best defensive defenseman), almost as good offensively, a better skater at this point, stronger, and less of a bloody puck-hog. I think Demers will have a bounce-back year next season (we have to hold on to him this off-season, unless there's a really good deal, because he has way to much potential to sell-low), and that between him and Burns, we can cover for Boyle.

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04-20-2012, 04:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Have you seen him this series? He's been horrible. He's held the puck far too long, coughs it up at the wrong time, and his skating if definitely declining. Combined with the fact that Burns, in my eyes, has really emerged in this series and I'm ready for him to be our all-situations #1. He's miles better defensively than Boyle (I'd say he's our second best defensive defenseman), almost as good offensively, a better skater at this point, stronger, and less of a bloody puck-hog. I think Demers will have a bounce-back year next season (we have to hold on to him this off-season, unless there's a really good deal, because he has way to much potential to sell-low), and that between him and Burns, we can cover for Boyle.

If you're basing your decision of whether or not to keep a player off this one series, then 90% of the team should be shipped out in the offseason.

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04-20-2012, 04:47 PM
  #63
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If you're basing your decision of whether or not to keep a player off this one series, then 90% of the team should be shipped out in the offseason.
It's not just the post-season, it's pretty much the entire season minus maybe January, that Boyle has not been good. Players like Marleau and Pavelski are different because the can bounce back from a bad year or a bad series at the ages they're at. But do you really see Boyle playing at an elite level next season? If you honestly say yes, I'll let if go.

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04-20-2012, 04:50 PM
  #64
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Boyle is far from the problem with this team. He has leadership and a strong desire to win which are qualities you want from a player come playoff time. The only fault he has is that sometimes he tries to do too much by himself, which to me says that he doesn't trust his teammates. Personally I think that's been a pretty big issue this year, and it's really obvious especially on the power play.

He should considered for a trade only because he's getting up there in age and the team should think about getting a decent return for him while they can. You're not going to completely replace his production in free agency, but if the Sharks were to sign someone like Carle in the offseason and if Demers/Braun/Burns take up more responsibility on the backend, then losing Boyle won't hurt the team as much as one would think.

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04-20-2012, 04:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
It's not just the post-season, it's pretty much the entire season minus maybe January, that Boyle has not been good. Players like Marleau and Pavelski are different because the can bounce back from a bad year or a bad series at the ages they're at. But do you really see Boyle playing at an elite level next season? If you honestly say yes, I'll let if go.

I don't think he's the sure-fire #1 D-man that he used to be, but like I said in another post, if we can pair him up with a solid #4 like Stuart and cut his minutes (something Todd should've done this year) then he can still be an extremely valuable part of this team. Not to mention the fact that I think it would be nearly impossible to get equal value for him at this point.

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04-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
Boyle is far from the problem with this team. He has leadership and a strong desire to win which are qualities you want from a player come playoff time. The only fault he has is that sometimes he tries to do too much by himself, which to me says that he doesn't trust his teammates. Personally I think that's been a pretty big issue this year, and it's really obvious especially on the power play.

He should considered for a trade only because he's getting up there in age and the team should think about getting a decent return for him while they can. You're not going to completely replace his production in free agency, but if the Sharks were to sign someone like Carle in the offseason and if Demers/Braun/Burns take up more responsibility on the backend, then losing Boyle won't hurt the team as much as one would think.
Basically this. He's too selfish a player. That's not always a bad thing, but when you're on a team with so much talent as the Sharks, it just becomes irritating. I think his production can be covered by committee. I love Boyler as much as anyone and he's been amazing for this team, but unless DW thinks the Sharks can win the Cup next season (I mean really believes) with an aging Boyle, he needs to take advantage of Boyle's NMC becoming conditional.

Plus, I still blame him for that OT goal in the last game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkachuk4MVP View Post
I don't think he's the sure-fire #1 D-man that he used to be, but like I said in another post, if we can pair him up with a solid #4 like Stuart and cut his minutes (something Todd should've done this year) then he can still be an extremely valuable part of this team. Not to mention the fact that I think it would be nearly impossible to get equal value for him at this point.
Todd has shown that he refuses to cut Boyle's minutes, even with Burns coming in and Vlasic stepping up, Boyle's playing as many minutes as ever.

I still think that a team looking for an elite PPQB (Montreal, NYR, Jersey, etc) would give a good return for Boyle, given that he's not on a retirement contract and he's a proven winner.

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04-20-2012, 05:09 PM
  #67
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Why not both and just start over?

This coaching staff has failed pretty miserably on the PK the past 2 years. On the flipside, I doubt any new coach is going to instill any more "toughness" in this bunch, despite their overwhelming size advantage. That's just the make up of this team.

And forget speed, no new coaching staff will make slow players fast.
Its one or the other because if we are going to get a new coach (lets just say someone like Tortorella or Laviolette - my kind of coaches) with new strategies and adjustments then there is no point to gut the team and completely start over when our window doesnt close until 2013-2014 and since we cant move the contracts of Marleau and Thornton to fully rebuild.

We have talent but we are so predictable in our approach, were soft, and we are slow.

We can fix the issues that doomed this team: PK, Soft, Unmotivated, Coaching.

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04-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #68
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Suter is a pipe dream. I have very little doubt that he leaves Nashville, especially with their management's new commitment to post season success. They're on the up-and-up while the Sharks are looking to be going in the opposite direction, so if for some reason he does leave it won't be to come play here.

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04-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
He should considered for a trade only because he's getting up there in age and the team should think about getting a decent return for him while they can. You're not going to completely replace his production in free agency, but if the Sharks were to sign someone like Carle in the offseason and if Demers/Braun/Burns take up more responsibility on the backend, then losing Boyle won't hurt the team as much as one would think.
This is the exact reason you trade him. It has nothing to do with blame and everything to do with becoming younger and faster.

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04-20-2012, 05:26 PM
  #70
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He would be my 7th Dman I would try to get Carle to pair with Burns.
He is way too expensive for a 7th dman. Hell even if he would be a league minimum salary player he would still be too slow against teams like the Blues.

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04-20-2012, 05:36 PM
  #71
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I think its silly to be debating on whether or not a player trade will shake up this franchise. You have to get to the root of the problem first. The players are there to execute on a system.

In my opinion, its the system, not the players that are failing. The Todd Mclellan system is basically the Detroit system. The last time the Red Wings made it past the 2nd round was in 2009. Things have changed a lot in the NHL since then. So either Todd changes the system to that of teams that are excelling in the playoffs, or he goes. It's simple. Doug Wilson's role in that is to build that system out when its established.

So in summary, figure out the system first, then decide on the players that will execute on that, even if it means letting go of fan favorites like Boyle, Pavs, etc.

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04-20-2012, 06:36 PM
  #72
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Marleau needs to watch that on repeat. I actually made the line "If you want it, don't just think you want it, go out and ****ing want it" my iPhone wallpaper. Whenever I'm struggling at the gym, I look at it to get a boost.
Epic. I wish he could somehow rip into this team like that... Not this pro-cess calm ********. That was motiviating.

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04-20-2012, 06:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Todd has shown that he refuses to cut Boyle's minutes, even with Burns coming in and Vlasic stepping up, Boyle's playing as many minutes as ever.


That's a Todd issue, not a Boyle issue.

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04-20-2012, 06:58 PM
  #74
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That's a Todd issue, not a Boyle issue.
I'll agree with that. So one of them must be gone.

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04-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #75
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A lot of this depends on how the playoffs end for the Sharks. I sincerely hope a first round exit would mean nobody is safe, starting with the GM.

The defensive zone blunders and pathetic PK is on the coaching staff to some extent.

Niemi isn't the answer, and I doubt any of the kids are ready yet. A trade or Greiss look like the best options.

Best trade bait on the team if a modest rebuild is in order are Thornton and Boyle. Many teams lack a true #1 center and/or experienced PMD.

This team has looked old and slow. I'm a bit saddened to admit it, but I think it's time to make real changes.

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