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ECQF Game #4: Rangers at Sens

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Old
04-19-2012, 05:15 PM
  #676
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Btw, John Tortorella has not had much playoff success outside of his cup year. He has only made it to the second round one other time.

Nothing for Nothing, Tom Renney had more playoff success than Torts as the coach of this team. That saids something.

When a guy gets out coached by Bruce Boudreau twice, that is not a pillar of strength behind the bench.

The difference in Tampa was that Torts had offensive mules that he could rely on. He doesn't know how to create an effective breakout or nudge the offense.

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04-19-2012, 05:26 PM
  #677
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Wha?
my bad. meant to say jack adams.

No difference, vezina is all hank's anyway.

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04-19-2012, 05:36 PM
  #678
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Boston fan here. I picked Ottawa to win in 7 with the "upset". I think the Rangers are an amazing team. Some real character guys on your team and I love Torts and the way the Rangers play. The Rangers remind me a lot of the Bruins in 08-09 and in general. Kind of scary the similarities. However, I think the Rangers need a little more playoff experience, some tweaking to their team and I think they need to experience the hard playoff losses to make them a stronger playoff team. There is no doubt in my mind that in the next few years the Rangers will be Stanley Cup Champs. I think they are on the right path and will be a very good contending team for a while. I can see what happened to the Bruins in the playoffs in 08-09 vs Carolina happening to the Rangers this year. Bruins were the 2nd best team in the NHL that year like the Rangers. Everyone had record years on the B's, but they had limited playoff experience as a collective group and the team wasn't quite the right mix to be a Cup winning team even though that team and the players on it were amazing and really a close knit team. Carolina (a team with Veteran players who appeared in the Cup finals or had Stanley Cup rings) came in and pulled of the upset. Just my thoughts and what I can also see happening to the Rangers this year in the playoffs. Obviously I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if Ottawa pulls off the upset. Great team though.

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04-19-2012, 05:52 PM
  #679
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Did anyone else just hear Keith Jones call Game 4 the Rangers' best of the series? This is why drugs are bad, kids...

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04-19-2012, 06:00 PM
  #680
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With 2 remaining home games, I still like our chances to win this series.

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04-19-2012, 06:03 PM
  #681
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NYR win Saturday. I think they will come out very hard and play their best game of the year. They have to. They have to find away to stop the Senators puck movement from the back and find away to hem them in their zone for long stretches. NY fans will be there also to give them a push. Ottawa I don't think is ready to move on, no Alfredsson will hurt when the chips are down. But a good consolation price is they are picking right after Calgary (a non playoff team) come June. And this battle with a gritty team like NYR will be huge for their young guys going forward to next year.

Rangers in 7, staying fast to my prediction.

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04-19-2012, 06:06 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Megustaelhockey View Post
Did anyone else just hear Keith Jones call Game 4 the Rangers' best of the series? This is why drugs are bad, kids...
Jones is a fool. I never put too much emphasis on his commentary. Still the same clown late in his career that started stuff in Philly and never stand up for himself to answer the bell.

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04-19-2012, 06:08 PM
  #683
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I don't think we were sitting back. On the Michalek goal, Staal had a good chance in front of the net, but a great pass by Carkner of all people somehow found the stick of their sniper. Odd man rush against. If we played a sitting back style, we might've won that game.

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04-19-2012, 06:10 PM
  #684
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Sure we can still win...but the mindset of a few players has to be altered . I expect Cally will be giving some guys an earful Mark Messier style and a couple more guys might just get motivated enough to kick it into high gear and get going...we really need Dubi , AA and Stepan...to step it up...or we will be on the outside looking in .

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04-19-2012, 06:33 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by JanelL79 View Post
Boston fan here. I picked Ottawa to win in 7 with the "upset". I think the Rangers are an amazing team. Some real character guys on your team and I love Torts and the way the Rangers play. The Rangers remind me a lot of the Bruins in 08-09 and in general. Kind of scary the similarities. However, I think the Rangers need a little more playoff experience, some tweaking to their team and I think they need to experience the hard playoff losses to make them a stronger playoff team. There is no doubt in my mind that in the next few years the Rangers will be Stanley Cup Champs. I think they are on the right path and will be a very good contending team for a while. I can see what happened to the Bruins in the playoffs in 08-09 vs Carolina happening to the Rangers this year. Bruins were the 2nd best team in the NHL that year like the Rangers. Everyone had record years on the B's, but they had limited playoff experience as a collective group and the team wasn't quite the right mix to be a Cup winning team even though that team and the players on it were amazing and really a close knit team. Carolina (a team with Veteran players who appeared in the Cup finals or had Stanley Cup rings) came in and pulled of the upset. Just my thoughts and what I can also see happening to the Rangers this year in the playoffs. Obviously I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if Ottawa pulls off the upset. Great team though.
This it right here. In the way of offense.

Lack of experience hasn't really been a problem.imo. I don't think I can point to something that says 'oh that happened because there's hardly any post season experience on this team'.

Scoring has been a big problem.

I also think in the coming years, Tortorella has to open up his system some.

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04-19-2012, 06:37 PM
  #686
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Don't feel like reading through the whole thread, but did anyone else catch the blatant stick to the back of the knee on Gaborik from Gonchar about 20-30 secs before the Turris goal?

Gaborik has inside position on Gonchar behind the net, the referee is also behind the net by the corner watching the whole play, as the puck is cycled back down low Gonchar takes the blade of his stick and jabs Gabby in the back of the right knee causing him to lose his balance and go down...blatant trip/interference, I don't know what the **** the refs were watching last night. Between that and the non-call on the Girardi high stick drawing blood, a few things definitely broke in my house

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04-19-2012, 07:13 PM
  #687
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Don't feel like reading through the whole thread, but did anyone else catch the blatant stick to the back of the knee on Gaborik from Gonchar about 20-30 secs before the Turris goal?

Gaborik has inside position on Gonchar behind the net, the referee is also behind the net by the corner watching the whole play, as the puck is cycled back down low Gonchar takes the blade of his stick and jabs Gabby in the back of the right knee causing him to lose his balance and go down...blatant trip/interference, I don't know what the **** the refs were watching last night. Between that and the non-call on the Girardi high stick drawing blood, a few things definitely broke in my house
this officiating is awful...biggest black eye to the sport in my opinion...they need to have a more veteran presences in the officiating, if i'm bettman i go to fraser and whoever else recently retired and BEG either to come back into the league OR TEACH THE CURRENT OFFICIALS!!!

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Old
04-19-2012, 07:15 PM
  #688
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Torts needs to seriously change the way they are dealing with Gonchar and Karlsson.
They seem to have no answer for either.

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04-19-2012, 07:17 PM
  #689
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Torts needs to seriously change the way they are dealing with Gonchar and Karlsson.
They seem to have no answer for either.
They're given a year to shoot from the point. Enough with collapsing so low. Pressure the point.

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04-19-2012, 07:24 PM
  #690
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They're given a year to shoot from the point. Enough with collapsing so low. Pressure the point.
All they talk about now is "Time and Space" And the amount those two have is absurd.

Karlsson is simply amazing to watch.

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Old
04-19-2012, 07:26 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by JanelL79 View Post
Boston fan here. I picked Ottawa to win in 7 with the "upset". I think the Rangers are an amazing team. Some real character guys on your team and I love Torts and the way the Rangers play. The Rangers remind me a lot of the Bruins in 08-09 and in general. Kind of scary the similarities. However, I think the Rangers need a little more playoff experience, some tweaking to their team and I think they need to experience the hard playoff losses to make them a stronger playoff team. There is no doubt in my mind that in the next few years the Rangers will be Stanley Cup Champs. I think they are on the right path and will be a very good contending team for a while. I can see what happened to the Bruins in the playoffs in 08-09 vs Carolina happening to the Rangers this year. Bruins were the 2nd best team in the NHL that year like the Rangers. Everyone had record years on the B's, but they had limited playoff experience as a collective group and the team wasn't quite the right mix to be a Cup winning team even though that team and the players on it were amazing and really a close knit team. Carolina (a team with Veteran players who appeared in the Cup finals or had Stanley Cup rings) came in and pulled of the upset. Just my thoughts and what I can also see happening to the Rangers this year in the playoffs. Obviously I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if Ottawa pulls off the upset. Great team though.
good post. the problem is that us ranger fans got spoiled with such a great season. this was supposed to be their year of growth and then seriously compete in another year or two. with their success we as fans now expect more from them, when in reality we should not. at the beginning of the season if we were told that we would be 2-2 with a legitimate shot of winning the first round and going on we all would of happily taken it. lets just sit back and enjoy the ride. the rangers will be cup winners in the next couple of years. maybe multiple winners.

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04-19-2012, 08:35 PM
  #692
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I agree with the substantive complaints that we are sitting on leads, etc., but I disagree with the idea that there is a way for a 1 seed to look. In the modern NHL with parity, there are no easy outs in teh playoffs, and 1 seeds sometimes dont look much different than 8 seeds. To cherry pick a few examples, you have the west's 1 seed down 3-1, you have pitt (who everyone seemed ot think, me included, was the best team in the league) down 3-1, the East's 7 seed giving the 2 seed fits, etc. Even the SC champ bruins needed 7 games (and OT i think) to defeat MTL, and 7 games to defeat TB.

NYR this year seemed like a strong team, but they didn't really dominate games like the 93-94 version did. They just seemed super adept at pulling out wins in very close games. They seem marginally better than the average playoff team perhaps.

Let's hope that in future years our home grown talents improve and we add FAs so that we can become a truly dominant team. But I think we all knew before the playoffs that we were not there yet.
Ottawa matches up well with NY. And they are giving there playoff all playing "Rangers hockey" and still it is 2-2. And I am a Sens fan. I think the Sens can win this series but likely the Rangers still are more likely to win it.

Get a grip. Parity is a ***** as a #1 seed but it is totally here! Anderson is a money goalie.. not an Ottawa weakness. You need to beat Ottawa in a best of three at Ranger Hockey... Ottawa is playing Ranger hockey.

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04-19-2012, 08:55 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by JanelL79 View Post
Boston fan here. I picked Ottawa to win in 7 with the "upset". I think the Rangers are an amazing team. Some real character guys on your team and I love Torts and the way the Rangers play. The Rangers remind me a lot of the Bruins in 08-09 and in general. Kind of scary the similarities. However, I think the Rangers need a little more playoff experience, some tweaking to their team and I think they need to experience the hard playoff losses to make them a stronger playoff team. There is no doubt in my mind that in the next few years the Rangers will be Stanley Cup Champs. I think they are on the right path and will be a very good contending team for a while. I can see what happened to the Bruins in the playoffs in 08-09 vs Carolina happening to the Rangers this year. Bruins were the 2nd best team in the NHL that year like the Rangers. Everyone had record years on the B's, but they had limited playoff experience as a collective group and the team wasn't quite the right mix to be a Cup winning team even though that team and the players on it were amazing and really a close knit team. Carolina (a team with Veteran players who appeared in the Cup finals or had Stanley Cup rings) came in and pulled of the upset. Just my thoughts and what I can also see happening to the Rangers this year in the playoffs. Obviously I could be completely wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if Ottawa pulls off the upset. Great team though.
very good post, and great analogies. The NYR are set up very similiar to the Bruins in terms of system, style of play, etc. I remember watching Boston get better and better as the years went by. It doesn't all happen at once and we can learn alot as fans by looking at your franchise.

The key to Boston was a combinations of drafting, trading, UFAs.
Rangers will follow the same path. Look at how close we came to signing Nash! just the interest alone tells you it's just a matter of time before we aquire another top 3 talent.

I look at Boston and see depth that the Rangers do not have. Their bottom six is full of players that are better at their respective positions than the Rangers. Doesn't help that this coach doesnt believe in utilizing a fourth line. Far too many players on the NYR
who aren't a factor in the game. Soon enough though the rangers will cross over into being true contenders.

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Old
04-20-2012, 07:43 AM
  #694
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I think if Emminger was ready we would see Bickel as 4th line RW

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04-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #695
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very good post, and great analogies. The NYR are set up very similiar to the Bruins in terms of system, style of play, etc. I remember watching Boston get better and better as the years went by. It doesn't all happen at once and we can learn alot as fans by looking at your franchise.

The key to Boston was a combinations of drafting, trading, UFAs.
Rangers will follow the same path. Look at how close we came to signing Nash! just the interest alone tells you it's just a matter of time before we aquire another top 3 talent.

I look at Boston and see depth that the Rangers do not have. Their bottom six is full of players that are better at their respective positions than the Rangers. Doesn't help that this coach doesnt believe in utilizing a fourth line. Far too many players on the NYR
who aren't a factor in the game. Soon enough though the rangers will cross over into being true contenders.
Well done fellas. There are indeed lots of similiarities between us and the Bruins(that team going forward from that loss to the Canes) and I also believe we will see another top 6 talent brought here during this summer.
Our team as presently constructed has a dearth of offensive talent but they still should(and really need to) win this series vs Ottawa for the season to not end up being looked at as a bust and total disappointment.
Players such as Stepan, Dubi, Anni, MDZ and even Gabby and BR need to step up their level of compete for us to move on to the 2nd round.

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04-20-2012, 10:46 AM
  #696
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I don't expect him to change it, I'm just trying to identify what I think is really wrong here.

I mean, I don't mean to absolve AA, Step, Dubi, etc. from blame, but I think a lot of it has to do with how we're playing too.

I think Dubi still does most of the little things well. I like his game. He's not gonna be the 65 point guy we thought he could be, but he is a great 35-45 point all around contributor. He played over his head last year and we probably overpaid him. If he is moved I'll be sorry to see him go but understand it. There's a chance his offense bounces back, but I think at best he's a 50 point gritty two-way winger now.

Stepan's been very disappointing, but he's young and I still think he's rarely out on a shift in which he's with players that he can succeed with. He needs to play with skilled guys consistently. I hate how Torts insists on spreading our grinders out throughout the entire lineup so that guys like Prust and Fedetenko and Mitchell are racking up ice time. Keep them in the bottom six and keep the bottom six to bottom six minutes. Put the skilled guys together and let them work it out until something develops. I know, that doesn't fit the clamp down and play defensive hockey for 50 minutes philosophy...

Gaborik can't create on his own. It's been said before and it's that simple. He's played okay. He just doesn't create his own opportunities so he looks pretty invisible.

Anisimov we should assume is just going to be a third line center/winger with spurts of offensive creativity but mostly a solid defensive winger. If he never gets paid much more than he makes and he becomes a full-time third liner who we rarely ask for more out of, he will be a good third liner for this team. Asking/expecting more from him is probably misguided.

I like Del Zotto but I don't think he's as invaluable as a puck mover for us as people think. If he looks for a huge pay day, I would consider moving him before overpaying him. I think we need a different puck mover, to be honest, and while it's nice having McD, Staal, Girardi (all three of whom I LOVE and think are studs) I think one of McD/Staal is eventually going to have to go and their spot will have to go to a legit top four puck mover (preferably with a SHOT). MDZ can be our #2 puck mover or can be dealt to help us acquire someone that fits our specific needs better. We need a guy who can rush the puck, push the play, PP the QB, and break the puck out. Again, I like DZ, but I don't think he's as good as others do and I don't think he's going to develop into the KIND of puck mover we're lacking. He can be a compliment to that, or part of finding, should he demand too much money.

I've been disappointed in Richards. It's not that he's played poorly, he just hasn't lived up to expectations. He got hot at the end of the season when the games were almost meaningless (we were going to have home ice as a 1-4 no matter what, pretty much) and now he's gone cold again. If not for that hot stretch at the season his numbers would be abysmally disappointing and right now I don't like his decision making with the puck. He's not the silky passer he was advertised as either and he does not make the PP go the way he's supposed to. He's probably actually my least favorite Ranger right now (but that's largely because of the fact that I love all of our homegrown guys - I don't actually DISLIKE Richards).

Anyhow, I don't actually think the guys individually are playing too badly, except for Stepan having an awful series and Richards/Gaborik not contributing enough. I think we expect too much out of some guys because we had high hopes for them and they didn't reach that ultimate ceiling. Dubi, Cally and AA are all guys who are not as offensively talented as we want them to be. Cally had a great year and Dubi had an off year. When they both play their normal years Dubi is probably a 40ish point guy and Cally is probably a 50ish point guy. Arty is probably a 35-40ish point guy. They're all very responsible, hard-working, reliable two-way guys who I'm happy to have (although Dubi got overpaid). Do I expect them to have combined for more points than they HAVE in this series? Yes. Do I expect them to score a LOT more? Not at all. And part of the reason I think they're not scoring is the "sit on the lead" and try to "hold on" mentality Torts has them playing with.
Excellent post; looks like you, I and many others feel the same way about our players and what we could perhaps do differently to have success and at the very least get out of the 1st round.
I honestly believe that although Dubi will have a bounce back next year, he probably will never see 20+ goals again.
Out of all our defensemen, McDonagh is easily the most skilled overall with the highest upside and therefore the only one I would look to hold on to long term.
The team definitely needs to add another legit top 6 talent this summer; perhaps revisit the Nash scenario or try to sign an unrestricted free agent.
There is also definitely a need here for a top puck moving defenseman who can run the power play efficiently.

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04-20-2012, 01:45 PM
  #697
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Hey guys, did anyone go to the Ottawa board and make a thread saying "Guess who may play game 3" when Krieder was going to play?

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04-20-2012, 04:28 PM
  #698
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Game 4 summary Senators win when Hank didn't stop a stoppable shot series tied 2-2

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04-20-2012, 04:39 PM
  #699
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Game 4 summary Senators win when Hank didn't stop a stoppable shot series tied 2-2
Where are your fighters to score?

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04-20-2012, 04:48 PM
  #700
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Game 4 summary Senators win when Hank didn't stop a stoppable shot series tied 2-2
Which goal?

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