I am in the camp that, although there definitely needs to be some changes, the Sharks' cup window is still open. Trading Boyle, I believe, would be hugely detrimental to the Sharks if their goal is to win the cup within the next few years. He should not be traded, he's one of the bright spots. The Sharks have been beaten with speed, and Boyle has not been the problem when facing these faster teams. Chicago, Vancouver, and now St. Louis. I'm optimistic in that I think the Sharks have the talent and the assets to position themselves for a serious cup run in the next 2 years.
In my mind, the problem stems from the lack of speed in the top 6 fwd group. Jumbo, Thornton, Pavs, and Couture all have average-below average speed. I would think a couple of those guys would have to be replaced with faster players. It seems to me that a Sharks' turnover high in the offensive zone = odd man rush the other way for the opposition. Whereas, if the Sharks forced a turnover high in the defensive zone, couture, clowe, etc. are too slow to make it an odd man rush. This effect is compounded when competing against a much faster top 6, like St. Louis.
Thornton has been the best player on the ice every game this series. He led a decade in points, he's a generational talent. San Jose got good by acquiring players like him, not trading them. He stays, no question in my mind. Couture is a rising star. I expect him to continue to get better and he'll be a #1 center in no time. No way we're trading him.
That leaves Pavs and Clowe. Pavs is awesome, he's signed to a great deal, and he's everything and more you want from a hockey player. I would trade him ONLY if we got a massive return. I'm talking speedy top 6 forward, 2 1st rounders, maybe a couple more picks. It would be very hard to see him go, but I would understand the logic.
Clowe is the odd guy out. I can't see the Sharks being a drastically better team with him in the lineup next year. I love his heart and his leadership, but his lack of speed just kills the team's balance. He's a warrior, and I hope DW ships him to the eastern conference.
Absolutely. I love Boyle, but if we can trade him for a top pairing 2WD prospect + 1st, you do it. If we could also get some more speed that has heart with it and is still young (26 and below), I'd be all for trading Patrick ****ing Marleau as well. I think speed is a more glaring issue. Grit, you can just sign guys like Moen as bottom 6 forwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Chef
Marleau needs to watch that on repeat. I actually made the line "If you want it, don't just think you want it, go out and ****ing want it" my iPhone wallpaper. Whenever I'm struggling at the gym, I look at it to get a boost.
Can you ask Boudreau to say **** again? I think I missed it
This team has looked old and slow. I'm a bit saddened to admit it, but I think it's time to make real changes.
The only positives going forward I see right now are Burns and Couture. Everything else for the future has been traded away. The question is, do I want another 2-3 years of squeeking into the playoffs and a 1st round exit followed by a rebuild, or just the rebuild right now.
I'm starting to lean toward the rebuild right now, as you are. I'm not sure McLellan is the right coach for a rebuild. I'm not sure if Doug Wilson is the right GM for a rebuild either.
If we're eliminated in the first round what's the highest we can pick? 15th? or would we get pushed closer to 20?
If Los Angeles, Washington, and Ottawa win their series, the Sharks would pick 15th. If they all lose their series, the Sharks would pick 18th barring there is no comeback.
If Los Angeles, Washington, and Ottawa win their series, the Sharks would pick 15th. If they all lose their series, the Sharks would pick 18th barring there is no comeback.
Package that pick and try to get into the top 5. I want a blue-chip prospect, damn it.
Package that pick and try to get into the top 5. I want a blue-chip prospect, damn it.
There are two that are worth it. Try a top 2 pick. And plan on this year's and next year's first plus. Look at what it took to move up about 3 spots to get Couture and he wasn't even top 5. The way to get into the top 5 is to earn your way in (tank the season).
There are two that are worth it. Try a top 2 pick. And plan on this year's and next year's first plus. Look at what it took to move up about 3 spots to get Couture and he wasn't even top 5. The way to get into the top 5 is to earn your way in (tank the season).
Exactly. We would need a top 3 to get Yakupov/Grigorenko/Galchenyuk. Otherwise it's not worth it. I don't think Columbus or Montreal would trade their picks either. So 1st overall or bust.
If Los Angeles, Washington, and Ottawa win their series, the Sharks would pick 15th. If they all lose their series, the Sharks would pick 18th barring there is no comeback.
Ok thanks wasn't sure how the playoff teams would be ranked
Exactly. We would need a top 3 to get Yakupov/Grigorenko/Galchenyuk. Otherwise it's not worth it. I don't think Columbus or Montreal would trade their picks either. So 1st overall or bust.
Edmonton isn't going to move either. The Sharks should stay put and take BPA.
Edmonton isn't going to move either. The Sharks should stay put and take BPA.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some pressure from behind the scenes since other teams have to be really annoyed about them getting 3 in a row. I wouldn't be surprised to see them change the rules to eliminate that, so Edmonton may feel moving the pick is the best way to keep everyone happy. Plus, they have enough young stars, they could use some high end veterans, especially on Defense and Goal.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some pressure from behind the scenes since other teams have to be really annoyed about them getting 3 in a row. I wouldn't be surprised to see them change the rules to eliminate that, so Edmonton may feel moving the pick is the best way to keep everyone happy. Plus, they have enough young stars, they could use some high end veterans, especially on Defense and Goal.
Will we get it? i doubt that highly
A couple of times, Edmonton has been voted among the 4 least desirable destinations in the league by the players. It's a death blow for signing those vets. If Edmonton wants to go somewhere in the standings, it has to be a creative coach, great development and maybe a couple of reclamation projects who no one else will sign. They need to grow their own lower line players and they have to be good at all positions in development (they seriously lack in defensive development).
Didn't want to bump the off-season speculation thread as that might annoy the hell out of people... so posting this here.
Here are my thoughts on who might move in the off-season, trying not to let my sentiment get in the way. Been thinking about this a lot:
Thornton - No, unless for some reason he asks out. I've flip flopped on this a few times, but I think it would do more harm than good.
Marleau - No, I honestly think a major part of his issues are system related. Plus, he's not going to waive, and he's not going to be asked. If he didn't have a NTC? Yes, I'd shop him, but its not bad enough to be worth the potential fall-out.
Pavelski - Yes, I would shop him. He's a HELL of a player, but the Sharks MUST get faster, and between him and Couture, you keep Couture. I bet we will regret moving him though when he tears it up elsewhere. If Thornton was somehow moved though, I would retain him.
Couture - No, not under any circumstances do i move him.
Clowe - Yes, absolutely, ready for the roller coaster ride that is Clowe to end.
Havlat - No, exactly the type of player we should be adding, not trading.
Winnik - Try and re-sign him, offer him upto $2m. He's been good for us, and we need to salvage something from that trade.
Moore - This will be controversial I know, but I would try to re-sign him at $1.5m. I think with a new coach and a new system he would be a great 3rd line center for us. He's stunk it up this year, but historically he's performed much better, so I take the risk.
Galiardi - He's an RFA, so I re-sign him for around $750k and he's solid depth. Also, new coach, new system, I think he rebounds.
Handzus - Get rid of him as fast as you can. Even buy him out if you must. If the Sharks have cap space, fine, bench him all season.
Winchester - Ended up being just as ineffective as I suspected when we signed him in the end. I'd move on.
Desjardins - Keeper
Mitchell - I would offer him a $1m deal, otherwise, cya around.
Ferriero - RFA, near league minimum, no harm done.
Wingels - McGinn like deal, $1m tops.
Burns - No discussion, keep him.
Vlasic - Get him resigned under $4.5m in the off-season, or shop him.
Boyle - If you can bring Suter in, or another comparable d-man somehow (high draft pick even), shop him. Otherwise, he's still got a lot of game left.
Murray - Move him. Too slow, value will decrease, get value while you can.
Demers - Keep, new system and I bet he rebounds.
Braun - Keep, of course, re-sign for Demers type deal.
White - Doubt he would stay even if we offered, he will want to get closer to his family.
Vandermeer - He'd have to be an idiot to re-sign with us after how we treated him.
Niemi - Shop him. Easily replaced, likely still overvalued (especially after a good series against the Blues). Either give Greiss/Stalock/Sateri a chance and/or bring in a UFA or reclamation project (Mason, Harding, Vokoun, Bernier, etc)
Greiss - Keep him, no reason not to.
I would of course replace the entire coaching staff, but not DW just yet. Coach wise if Bylsma got fired (I doubt it) he'd be the best choice, after that it's just hard to say.
UFA's I'd look at are:
Suter
Parise
Stuart
Oduya
Doan
Parenteau
Semin (on a reasonable contract)
Wellwood...
Moss
Brunette
Pouliot
If they can't skate, don't want um.
In trade I'd be looking for speedy young LW's, but primarily high draft picks.
I'm pretty sure I have never agreed with someone more...this team needs to get younger and faster quickly...new system based on a transition game where players like Marleau will flourish..
Don't care if Jumbo is gone, but with speedy wingers he could still exist under the new order
It depends what the market is for him. If it's just a draft pick (even a first), then I'd keep him. If the offer is good (I suck at coming up with trade offers), then move him. I'd hate to see Boyle go since he's my favorite current Shark, but whatever is best for the team, do. Boyle can still be effective on the top power play unit and on the second defense pairing during even strength. If the Sharks can limit his minutes a little bit next year, that would be great.
If Suter or Weber does sign here (very wishful thinking), then definitely trade him.
I'd like to keep Pavelski, but I'm not against moving Boyle even if I like him a lot. In my ideal scenario, we'd move Boyle for Suter's rights and succeed in signing him but it's not that simple.
I like Boyle, and I think he we be good for a couple more years, but at this point I think we need more power up front. If we could get a decent return for him I say go for it.
I'd trade Boyle if we can get a young, talented top six forward and a bottom pairing defenseman with upside. I think that would benefit the team more than keeping him.
