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Does character matter?

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Old
03-11-2006, 10:32 AM
  #1
Istvan
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Does character matter?

There is an interesting contradiction regarding Ribeiro and Bertuzzi on this board. Many posters want Ribeiro gone because he is a heartless punk or gutless etc. Basically these posters want Ribeiro gone because of his character. On the other hand many of these folks would love to have Bertuzzi on the team. So Bertuzzi's character doesn't matter??

Help me McPhee.......I can't stop myself. [ where are my pills? ].

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03-11-2006, 11:02 AM
  #2
Russeltown
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Don't know if it's true or not... But I think it's an Anglophone vs. Francophone war.. Am I wrong?

Edit: I wish I am

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03-11-2006, 11:10 AM
  #3
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Ribeiro and Bertuzzi in the same thread, this thread is going to get worse before it gets better.

There's different types of character I believe. Ribs has character in his own cocky and obnoxious way.

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03-11-2006, 11:13 AM
  #4
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Bertuzzi would stain the Habs and Ribeiro already has.. so.. yeah. May as well keep the young punk untill somebody else takes him in a trade.

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03-11-2006, 11:13 AM
  #5
Bill McNeal
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It's apples and oranges.

Those who don't want Ribeiro on the team question his work ethic and commitment to the game. They feel he is detrimental to the team on the ice.

Those who don't want Bertuzzi on the team questions his ethics and personality. They feel his is detrimental to the image of the team.

Both are valid opinions, IMO.

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Old
03-11-2006, 11:14 AM
  #6
PaulPosition
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Quote:
Don't know if it's true or not... But I think it's an Anglophone vs. Francophone war.. Am I wrong?
Nope, you aren't wrong.

It's the Habburabi principle, based on Hammurabi's law : an house collapse killing the owner's son. Find the architect and kill his son in return.

So if ever someone critique your player of choice, you find out who *his* player of choice is and proceed to destroy him as best as you could. In bulletin-boards, that's not soo bad, *we* posters are totally meaningless in the grand scheme of things hockey.

But when a radio or tv or paper journalist *does* emit an opinion, then all hell breaks lose. Pednault loves Bouillon? Then anglos will dislike him. Todt's just praised Koivu? Let the francos lynch him up.

Sad, really.

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03-11-2006, 11:49 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPosition
Nope, you aren't wrong.

It's the Habburabi principle, based on Hammurabi's law : an house collapse killing the owner's son. Find the architect and kill his son in return.

So if ever someone critique your player of choice, you find out who *his* player of choice is and proceed to destroy him as best as you could. In bulletin-boards, that's not soo bad, *we* posters are totally meaningless in the grand scheme of things hockey.

But when a radio or tv or paper journalist *does* emit an opinion, then all hell breaks lose. Pednault loves Bouillon? Then anglos will dislike him. Todt's just praised Koivu? Let the francos lynch him up.

Sad, really.
I disagree, at least from my perspective.

The things I haven't liked about Ribeiro have to do with the way he plays the game & how that equates to the overall success of the team. In the past, he has been able to put up points which contributed to the teams success & I cheered him the same as I have done with every Habs player for over 40 years. He is still slow & not very stong, so his contribution to the team has been less this year, until recently. I don't hate him because of it, I just wonder if we can win the Cup with him playing a prominent role.

I am an Anglo, but, my favourite players over the years have included Beliveau, Lafleur, Bouchard, Gilles Tremblay, J.C. Tremblay, Savard & of course Carbo. I don't care where they're from, it's how they play the game that matters & winning.

As far as Mike's character, there are some things about him I like & some things I don't like. If he helps the Habs win a Stanley Cup, then there's a place for him on the team as far as I'm concerned. If we can find a better option, then it's time for Ribeiro to move on. That better option can come from Mars for all I care,I don't care about where he was born.

I don't care who Pednault, Bergeron or Cherry like. That doesn't help me decide who I like.

As far as Bertuzzi is concerned, I don't want him on the Habs, but, it has more to do with his value to the team than his acts involving Steve Moore. I just don't think he would have been worth the price to get him, relative to what he would contribute to the long term success of the organization, ON THE ICE. I just don't think he would have been worth the cost to get him.

It would be nice to have a discussion just once on this board about the merits of a player or players without the province or country of origin Hi-jacking the thread.

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Old
03-11-2006, 12:27 PM
  #8
Istvan
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It would be nice to have a discussion just once on this board about the merits of a player or players without the province or country of origin Hi-jacking the thread.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.

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Old
03-11-2006, 12:54 PM
  #9
mcphee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPosition
Nope, you aren't wrong.

It's the Habburabi principle, based on Hammurabi's law : an house collapse killing the owner's son. Find the architect and kill his son in return.

So if ever someone critique your player of choice, you find out who *his* player of choice is and proceed to destroy him as best as you could. In bulletin-boards, that's not soo bad, *we* posters are totally meaningless in the grand scheme of things hockey.

But when a radio or tv or paper journalist *does* emit an opinion, then all hell breaks lose. Pednault loves Bouillon? Then anglos will dislike him. Todt's just praised Koivu? Let the francos lynch him up.

Sad, really.
Paul, I like to think that we can think for ourselves, most of the time. I notice that an insult towards #71 predicates one against #11, and vice versa. It gets like the uS and Russia finding new countries to antagonize each other in without ever pushing the button, back in the cold war days. It doesn't have to be a language thing though, and I think sometimes we assume it is, so therefore it is. There's a perception that francophones lap up the words of Rejean Tremblay [just an example] and anglos actually believe things that Todd writes. It's not like that. Some do, sure, but that kind of insults most of us, which is ok, I've been insulted plenty of times,more skillfully than that.

Back to Istvan that left wing hand wringer whose background I would tarnish if I knew more about it. Character matters on a team if personality affects winning, or it sinks an organizations reputation in the community. I'm not sure about Bertuzzi, I've flipped so many times, I forget my opinion right now. I believe he's aguy who needs to talk to Dr.Phil about impulse control. If we got him, I'd cheer loudly, because I'm a prime example of the hypocrisy that Istvan referred to at the beginning of this. Ribeiro has done nothing to offend me. His thing against Boston 2 years ago, wasn't quite as bad as the self righteous make it. My problems with the guy are when he doesn't move his damn feet.

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Old
03-11-2006, 01:20 PM
  #10
V-2 Schneider
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I prefer the cockiness we used to see from Doug Gilmour, and if any can rememebr the 1989 finals, he had a sneer on his face all the time.If he had played for the Habs, we'd have won that Cup.If you're going to be a jerk, produce, and be chippy, and take your shots like Gilmour did, and not like a Linesman.Play first for the team.

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Old
03-11-2006, 01:25 PM
  #11
znk
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I dont think the word you're looking for is Character.

The reason I dont like Ribeiro is because he lacks character.

def: Strength of mind; resolution; independence; individuality; as, he has a great deal of character.

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Old
03-11-2006, 02:40 PM
  #12
HabuseMoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider
I prefer the cockiness we used to see from Doug Gilmour, and if any can rememebr the 1989 finals, he had a sneer on his face all the time.If he had played for the Habs, we'd have won that Cup.If you're going to be a jerk, produce, and be chippy, and take your shots like Gilmour did, and not like a Linesman.Play first for the team.
yhea... and that is precisely what he has been doing since the Olympic Break...

What does he have to do more than that for you guys to be happy? take a sword and slay someone on the ice? ... oh I guess you would still be unhappy and moan for him to be traded for his lack of "sportsmanship".

on a more serious note... Ribs is doing great right now, and like it or not, he is not a gritty player, he is an intelligent player with huge passing skill and potential. He was a huge part of the team last season, and he was not playing great hockey before the break. But Gainey should give him another chance next year, i'd keep him over a lot of players.

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Old
03-11-2006, 02:59 PM
  #13
V-2 Schneider
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Ribeiro will have to become a big game player, and demonstrate he can take his game to a higher level,come playoff time.No matter what, he lacks the quickness and first step jump to be a Gilmour type, so I do hope that when the right time comes along, he can be moved to help get us a better talent 2nd C.

There comes a time when I've seen enough of a player to know that this is it.It came withTBO, Savage, Rucinsky,Malakhov,Brunet,Bure,etc, and Mikey is at about that same marker point.

I prefer it when we've had chippy players, and every era when we were a top 6 team, we had some edge throughout the lineup.Any hangup I have about Ribeiro is due to his lack of strength and skating ability, and to me, that's a big hurdle to overcome.

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Old
03-11-2006, 03:19 PM
  #14
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Ribeiro shouldn't be compared to Bertuzzi. Ribeiro is merely obnoxious but Bertuzzi is a thug.

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03-11-2006, 03:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Paul, I like to think that we can think for ourselves, most of the time. I notice that an insult towards #71 predicates one against #11, and vice versa. It gets like the uS and Russia finding new countries to antagonize each other in without ever pushing the button, back in the cold war days. It doesn't have to be a language thing though, and I think sometimes we assume it is, so therefore it is. There's a perception that francophones lap up the words of Rejean Tremblay [just an example] and anglos actually believe things that Todd writes. It's not like that.
i am somewhere betwen Paul and you . I agree that we don't need Rejean Tremblay to have a point of view , but i also agree with the unfamous anglo versus franco position , for a lot of fans . But i also see that there are also more fans that are not considering this kind of things , but because of that , we simply forget them , because they don't take part of those little battles .( majorité silencieuse ! )

About charactere of Ribeiro and Bertuzzi , i don't see any kind of similitude betwen the too . Bertuzzi was more a physical monster that was agressive , but i don't think that he's having a strong mental .

Ribeiro for me is the opposite .The guy is even unable to be the standard human because he has too much charactere . He's unable to answer the '' correct pre-fabricated answers in an interview '' because he's too rebel for that .

About his play , Ribeiro is not fool ; he knows that he can't win the game in the physical aspect , so is playing a finesse hockey game . I don't know why soo much fans here want him to play another kind of game ;'' If you don't play like Koivu or Begin , you are a not playing ''.

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03-11-2006, 03:28 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk
I dont think the word you're looking for is Character.

The reason I dont like Ribeiro is because he lacks character.

def: Strength of mind; resolution; independence; individuality; as, he has a great deal of character.
curious how i would say exactly the opposite ; Ribeiro isn't a ''monsieur tout le monde '' , he never will be as most of the population . He 's having his own color , is having his own taste , his own life versus what is the ''correct way ''.

It just depend the way you look at it !

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03-11-2006, 03:57 PM
  #17
Istvan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
Paul, I like to think that we can think for ourselves, most of the time. I notice that an insult towards #71 predicates one against #11, and vice versa. It gets like the uS and Russia finding new countries to antagonize each other in without ever pushing the button, back in the cold war days. It doesn't have to be a language thing though, and I think sometimes we assume it is, so therefore it is. There's a perception that francophones lap up the words of Rejean Tremblay [just an example] and anglos actually believe things that Todd writes. It's not like that. Some do, sure, but that kind of insults most of us, which is ok, I've been insulted plenty of times,more skillfully than that.

Back to Istvan that left wing hand wringer whose background I would tarnish if I knew more about it. Character matters on a team if personality affects winning, or it sinks an organizations reputation in the community. I'm not sure about Bertuzzi, I've flipped so many times, I forget my opinion right now. I believe he's aguy who needs to talk to Dr.Phil about impulse control. If we got him, I'd cheer loudly, because I'm a prime example of the hypocrisy that Istvan referred to at the beginning of this. Ribeiro has done nothing to offend me. His thing against Boston 2 years ago, wasn't quite as bad as the self righteous make it. My problems with the guy are when he doesn't move his damn feet.
Left wing hand wringer.......i'm touched. That's the nicest thing anyone has said about me in a long long time. [I had a gilrfriend in high school who once said something nice about me but i've forgotten what it was]. Anyway, you have inspired me to come clean and admit that i'm a hypocrite because I used to love Chelios even after he tried to embed [sp?] Propp into the glass/boards a few years ago with a vicious hit from behind. The very kind of thing I now wring my hands over.

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03-11-2006, 04:23 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
curious how i would say exactly the opposite ; Ribeiro isn't a ''monsieur tout le monde '' , he never will be as most of the population . He 's having his own color , is having his own taste , his own life versus what is the ''correct way ''.

It just depend the way you look at it !
I think Theo was resented because he's young, good looking, rich and likes to take advantage of what that brings. When it didn't go well on the ice, fans resent those things. Ribs is of a different generation and style than me. He does things differently and always has. I hope I'm not arrogant enough to think he's a jerk because he's not like me.

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03-11-2006, 04:26 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Istvan
Left wing hand wringer.......i'm touched. That's the nicest thing anyone has said about me in a long long time. [I had a gilrfriend in high school who once said something nice about me but i've forgotten what it was]. Anyway, you have inspired me to come clean and admit that i'm a hypocrite because I used to love Chelios even after he tried to embed [sp?] Propp into the glass/boards a few years ago with a vicious hit from behind. The very kind of thing I now wring my hands over.
I tried to come up with something better, knowing you'd get it, but that was my best. As for character, if the Propp hit was the worst thing Chelios had ever done, he'd be canonized. There's so much not fit for these boards. As for hypocrisy, anyone who isn't at some level a hypocrite, just isn't trying hard enough.

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03-11-2006, 05:21 PM
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I don't think Ribeiro lacks character. He must have worked his tail off to acquire all those skills. And to get to the NHL for a guy his size is an incredible accomplishment. Then, when everyone claimed he was lazy, he worked hard and made himself stronger. It takes time for a guy with his frame to put on muscle, let's face it.

What he may be is immature, which is not a sin for a guy his age. I think his young, hip-hop type mannerisms have faded. Traditionally, people like their hockey players to be humble, or else the Code will catch up to them. He's been showing signs of maturity this year as well and is more of a family man and father now.

He seems to be the fall guy for Montreal's lack of toughness and losing atmosphere of the last regime. I don't think it's fair to blame it all on one guy.

He's a small guy, but he goes one-on-one with bigger players against the boards all the time and has been taking the hit to make the play since earlier in the season. He's really picked up his defensive game. You gotta like that he dropped the gloves with Boynton. That takes guts.

I'm not sure if just dumping him is a good idea. We're not Cup contenders just yet. Koivu's getting older. Why not give him a year or two to show us what he has?

Bertuzzi, however, is a lazy punk. A guy with his size and talent should be dominating the league. It took him many years to gain a work ethic. The Islanders even made Clark Gillies his personal life coach or whatever to wake him up and that didn't work either. His cheap behavior on the ice is inexcusable too.

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Old
03-11-2006, 05:28 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I don't think Ribeiro lacks character. He must have worked his tail off to acquire all those skills. And to get to the NHL for a guy his size is an incredible accomplishment. Then, when everyone claimed he was lazy, he worked hard and made himself stronger. It takes time for a guy with his frame to put on muscle, let's face it.

What he may be is immature, which is not a sin for a guy his age. I think his young, hip-hop type mannerisms have faded. Traditionally, people like their hockey players to be humble, or else the Code will catch up to them. He's been showing signs of maturity this year as well and is more of a family man and father now.

He seems to be the fall guy for Montreal's lack of toughness and losing atmosphere of the last regime. I don't think it's fair to blame it all on one guy.

He's a small guy, but he goes one-on-one with bigger players against the boards all the time and has been taking the hit to make the play since earlier in the season. He's really picked up his defensive game. You gotta like that he dropped the gloves with Boynton. That takes guts.

I'm not sure if just dumping him is a good idea. We're not Cup contenders just yet. Koivu's getting older. Why not give him a year or two to show us what he has?

Bertuzzi, however, is a lazy punk. A guy with his size and talent should be dominating the league. It took him many years to gain a work ethic. The Islanders even made Clark Gillies his personal life coach or whatever to wake him up and that didn't work either. His cheap behavior on the ice is inexcusable too.


Very good point of view .

McPhee , do you agree that he's the one who deserve to win the 15 years old Porto ?

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Old
03-11-2006, 11:18 PM
  #22
mcphee
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Originally Posted by mark0v


Very good point of view .

McPhee , do you agree that he's the one who deserve to win the 15 years old Porto ?
markov, we don't want to get involved with anyone 15 years old, Porto,Franco,Russkie,anyone. Do you know what happens to those guys in prison ?

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03-11-2006, 11:38 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0v
curious how i would say exactly the opposite ; Ribeiro isn't a ''monsieur tout le monde '' , he never will be as most of the population . He 's having his own color , is having his own taste , his own life versus what is the ''correct way ''.

It just depend the way you look at it !
Thats one version of character....as in ...he's a special character. Not as in...He shows character.


Not showing up in the playoff is the opposite of character. Character is getting nailed and comming back for more on the next play. Character is not faking an injury.

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03-11-2006, 11:42 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk
Thats one version of character....as in ...he's a special character. Not as in...He shows character.


Not showing up in the playoff is the opposite of character. Character is getting nailed and comming back for more on the next play. Character is not faking an injury.
right about this one , but is it a lack of charactere or a bad decision comming from a inexperimented player ? who knows ..

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03-11-2006, 11:43 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by mcphee
markov, we don't want to get involved with anyone 15 years old, Porto,Franco,Russkie,anyone. Do you know what happens to those guys in prison ?


my bad , you're right ...

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