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Do You Recognize This Jersey?

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Old
03-26-2012, 09:10 PM
  #26
Taoiseach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
Makes sense, considering in French it's Wanderers de Montreal. W on top, M on the bottom. Uniform is identical besides the logo too.
That doesn't make sense. The Wanderers were an Anglo team.

I don't know what team this is, but I very strongly doubt that it's an NHA or CHA team.

I'm guessing that it's a lower level team, but I don't know what. I eagerly await Paul Kitchen's response!

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Old
03-26-2012, 09:21 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalDan View Post
Thank you.

This has been bugging me since I found this photo and connected him in my family tree, lol.
If you don't mind me asking, may I get his name? I'm trying to figure it out as well. You can PM me if you prefer

Edit: Nevermind, saw that the name is in the OP


Last edited by Jerk Store: 03-26-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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Old
03-26-2012, 09:36 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taoiseach View Post
That doesn't make sense. The Wanderers were an Anglo team.

I don't know what team this is, but I very strongly doubt that it's an NHA or CHA team.

I'm guessing that it's a lower level team, but I don't know what. I eagerly await Paul Kitchen's response!


I knew that, too.

My other guess would've been a Wanderers affiliate because of the jersey similarities but differing main crest/logo. I don't know anymore though and am certainly not an expert.

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Old
03-26-2012, 09:40 PM
  #29
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Coming over from the History thread, just to keep the conversation in one place.

All-Montreal was probably the best guess from among the pro teams, but unfortunately young Alfred doesn't appear in their summaries. Unless he was an unused spare, he wasn't with them.

The single piece of information which would be most helpful would be where this gentleman worked. Aside from pro teams, the majority of hockey activity took place in commercial and industrial leagues. Ideally if you could get the name of his employer it might be something convenient like Mike's Applesauce Factory. But even if you only knew his occupation, that might be enough of a lead to narrow down to which league he was in, and then finally down to the team.

Hope this helps, it's definitely a good research challenge.

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Old
03-26-2012, 10:08 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Coming over from the History thread, just to keep the conversation in one place.

All-Montreal was probably the best guess from among the pro teams, but unfortunately young Alfred doesn't appear in their summaries. Unless he was an unused spare, he wasn't with them.

The single piece of information which would be most helpful would be where this gentleman worked. Aside from pro teams, the majority of hockey activity took place in commercial and industrial leagues. Ideally if you could get the name of his employer it might be something convenient like Mike's Applesauce Factory. But even if you only knew his occupation, that might be enough of a lead to narrow down to which league he was in, and then finally down to the team.

Hope this helps, it's definitely a good research challenge.
Mmmm...this is hard, lol. No idea on his employer.

His wife was Alvina Miller (Millaire) born in 1892 in Cornwall, Ontario and died in 1957 in Ottawa, Ontario

His second wife was Marie Flynn born about 1912 and died approximately 22 January 1999 in Ottawa, Ontario.

Apparently no kids with either of them that I can find...

His stats are as follows: Alfred Eugène Bourguignon born 26 JUN 1893 in Ottawa, Ontario and passed away 11 DEC 1968 in Ottawa, Ontario.

His grandfather: Joseph Périllard (Périard) dit Bourguignon born 18 NOV 1821 in Saint-Eustache, Deux-Montagnes, Québec and passed away between 1871 and 1873 in Ottawa, Ontario.

His grandmother: Marie Françoise Gibeau dit Sayer born 21 MAR 1822 in Saint-Benoît, Québec and passed away 13 JUL 1886 in Ottawa, Ontario.

His father: Alfred Bourguignon born 24 DEC 1865 in Ottawa, Ontario, and passed away on 22 JUL 1921 in Ottawa, Ontario.

His mother: Délia Aubry born 27 JAN 1874 in Ontario and passed away 13 DEC 1953 in Ottawa, Ontario.

Alfred was the oldest of 14 children.

No idea if this helps any, lol.

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03-26-2012, 10:37 PM
  #31
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I cannot locate any league in which this team might be... If anything, his bio tells us he was 17-18 at the time of the picture. I'll try and look at football and Lacrosse teams, as players often practiced more than one sport as amateurs.

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03-26-2012, 10:50 PM
  #32
tarheelhockey
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I have a possible lead... it's tenuous, but it's something.

By chance, a newspaper search turned up a reference to this fellow later in life as president of the Montagnard Club of Ottawa. That might mean something significant to you guys, to me it's just a word... but MontAgnard is a nice fit for that monogram.

And, promisingly, there was in fact a team called the Montagnards in the Ottawa Senior League starting in 1922. Much earlier, around the turn of the century, a pro team called the Montreal Montagnards was active and there was an organization called the Montagnard Amateur Athletic Association in Montreal beginning in 1908.

Unfortunately there are virtually no records of these organizations to be found online. Based on general knowledge of the time period I would guess that Montagnards was a team in the Ottawa amateur leagues circa 1910. Bourguignon was apparently from a well-to-do family and had a Victorian sort of lifestyle, including participation in multiple sports, so we're probably talking about an athletic club rather than an industrial or commercial league.

That's as far as I can go with online resources. My strong inclination is that this is an early form of the later Ottawa Montagnards, probably part of an Ottawa-based Montagnard AAA. You guys might be able to confirm that through local resources or just being familiar with whatever the hell I'm talking about

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Old
03-26-2012, 11:10 PM
  #33
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http://hockeyleaguehistory.com/
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I have a possible lead... it's tenuous, but it's something.

By chance, a newspaper search turned up a reference to this fellow later in life as president of the Montagnard Club of Ottawa. That might mean something significant to you guys, to me it's just a word... but MontAgnard is a nice fit for that monogram.

And, promisingly, there was in fact a team called the Montagnards in the Ottawa Senior League starting in 1922. Much earlier, around the turn of the century, a pro team called the Montreal Montagnards was active and there was an organization called the Montagnard Amateur Athletic Association in Montreal beginning in 1908.

Unfortunately there are virtually no records of these organizations to be found online. Based on general knowledge of the time period I would guess that Montagnards was a team in the Ottawa amateur leagues circa 1910. Bourguignon was apparently from a well-to-do family and had a Victorian sort of lifestyle, including participation in multiple sports, so we're probably talking about an athletic club rather than an industrial or commercial league.

That's as far as I can go with online resources. My strong inclination is that this is an early form of the later Ottawa Montagnards, probably part of an Ottawa-based Montagnard AAA. You guys might be able to confirm that through local resources or just being familiar with whatever the hell I'm talking about
That's what I was thinking, I'm off to bed but will research the athletic clubs a bit tomorrow. As for Montagnard, it might be a lead, although the logo wouldn't real work! Then again, I'm no expert either

Also didn't find much that would point in any direction on http://hockeyleaguehistory.com/

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Old
03-26-2012, 11:41 PM
  #34
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Look what I dug up!

"One small episode in the story occurred on Friday June 6, 1884 when a field naturalist, Ed. F.G. White, took his gun and headed off to Cummings Woods near Ottawa to hunt. He shot at least one passenger pigeon which ultimately came into the hands of S.H. Herring who mounted it for display. Eventually the beautifully-prepared bird was acquired from its original owner by Alfred (Fred) Eugene Bourguignon, an Ottawa businessman and ornithologist and a long-time member of the Ottawa Field Naturalists' Club. The treasured ornamental specimen was given to the Canadian Museum of Civilization by Mr. Bourguignon's widow, Marie J. (Flynn) Bourguignon, in his memory." - located http://www.taxidermy4cash.com/Victorian.html

Also found out her middle name was Josephine.


Last edited by TribalDan: 03-26-2012 at 11:42 PM. Reason: Ottawa businessman and ornithologist
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Old
03-27-2012, 12:20 AM
  #35
tarheelhockey
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^ I came across a site that portrayed him as a highly controversial collector of bird specimens. Apparently he was very significant in Canadian ornithological history, the last of the Victorian-style collectors before the conservation movement changed the landscape. Apparently a pretty interesting guy.

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Old
03-27-2012, 07:40 AM
  #36
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"The life and soul of Ottawa birding after the war was businessman Fred Bourguignon. He was a gregarious and immensely likeable person, who shared his knowledge of birds with evident pleasure. But, he also was possessed by the collector's mania. Put simply, he wanted to have in his basement a specimen of every species of bird that had ever appeared in Ottawa. (He collected and traded specimens of other North American birds too.) His close friendship with the federal official responsible for migratory birds ensured him an unrestricted collecting permit. Many are the stories that he told of his collecting exploits, such as politely asking a group of bikini-clad bathers to step aside while he shot a piping plover along the Ottawa River.

Finally, however, the young birders, anti-shotguns all, felt confident enough to challenge their elders over the issue. When Bourguignon collected a summer tanager in May 1967, before some local birders could see it alive, there came an explosion that split the Ottawa birding community in two. (This state has since, regrettably, become endemic - only now it's in many more than two pieces.).

It is true that Bourguignon probably killed fewer birds in his lifetime than a typical duck hunter does. (There were nine thousand of them in the Valley then.) He, of course, viewed every specimen as a "scientific verity" lasting "a thousand years", as does every collector who needs to justify to themselves the killing of a bird as rare as a piping plover. (In fact, his trophies ended up in the storage rooms of the National Museum of Nature, who consider them an embarassement.) Today, when 30% of adult Canadians go on outings specifically to watch birds, and 20% describe themselves to Statistics Canada as "studying birds", the collector's mania can no longer be accepted. There would be no birds left to study if such numbers made collections. Besides, birds can now be much better learned from books than from private specimens." - Found here: http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/enjoy9.html


Looks like some good and some bad commentary.

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Old
04-02-2012, 11:08 PM
  #37
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Bump! With Mr. Kitchen's findings coming up tomorrow. Looks like one of our posters wasn't too far

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04-03-2012, 09:18 AM
  #38
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Received this yesterday:

Hi Jacob -- I think I have found the team represented by the image you provided. In the 1909-10 season a player by the name of Bourguignon was a member of the Montagnards hockey team in the Hurd League here in Ottawa. The Hurd League was sponsored by Hurd and Company, a sporting goods firm. The Bourguignon family lived on Division Street. I will be giving you some additional details tomorrow. The Montagnard Athletic Club was a very prominent organization as far back as the turn of the last century. Stay tuned. -- Paul K.

Followed by:

Jacob -- The Montagnard Amateur Athletic Association was founded in 1908, and Fred Bourgignon was one of the original directors. In 1909, the club moved to Bourguignon's store on Booth Street. Hockey was the main interest of the Montagnards. With this information, the emblem on the sweater can now be recognized as an "M" and an "A". Since from the Ottawa Journal, we see Bourguignon (no first name given) listed as in the Montagnard lineup at the beginning of the 1909-10 Hurd League hockey season, I think it is safe to say the team Alfred Bourguignon represented in the 1910 photo was the Montagnards. Jim McAuley's Ottawa Sports Book was very helpful. Hope this will be of use to your correspondent -- PK

Looks like tarheelhockey wasn't too far off!Perhaps this works with other information you have about him

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04-03-2012, 09:43 AM
  #39
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That was SOOOO my nexyt guess!

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Old
04-21-2012, 08:33 AM
  #40
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That is amazing! This is information my late uncle could not find out before his death. I'll definitely be keeping this information. Thank you to everyone including Paul Kitchen and Jerk Store.

That was difficult! Haha.

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Old
04-21-2012, 08:49 AM
  #41
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cool thread to read through. your relative sounds like an interesting guy.

also well done tarheelhockey. thats some impressive research considering you've got no ties to the ottawa area.

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Old
04-21-2012, 09:34 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
. . . .

By chance, a newspaper search turned up a reference to this fellow later in life as president of the Montagnard Club of Ottawa. That might mean something significant to you guys, to me it's just a word... but MontAgnard is a nice fit for that monogram.

. . .
From the following site http://ventsenator.narod.ru/OldScore...OfTheWorld.htm

If found this photo:



The fellow with the angled photo on the left is listed as A.E. G Bourguignon, Pres

Also bottom row furthest to the right is Leo Bourguignon, Trainer

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04-21-2012, 10:56 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habman0 View Post
From the following site http://ventsenator.narod.ru/OldScore...OfTheWorld.htm

If found this photo:



The fellow with the angled photo on the left is listed as A.E. G Bourguignon, Pres

Also bottom row furthest to the right is Leo Bourguignon, Trainer
Must be the batman themed 3rd jersey

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Old
04-21-2012, 02:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by MightyManked View Post
Their NHL (19)12 didn't even have sound!
Is that the one where Chris Chelios is on the cover?

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Old
04-21-2012, 10:43 PM
  #45
TribalDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habman0 View Post
From the following site http://ventsenator.narod.ru/OldScore...OfTheWorld.htm

If found this photo:



The fellow with the angled photo on the left is listed as A.E. G Bourguignon, Pres

Also bottom row furthest to the right is Leo Bourguignon, Trainer
I have reason to believe that Leo is his younger brother...from this photo.


Left to right: Leo Bourguignon (1905-1983), Alfred Bourguignon, junior (1893-1968), Alfred Bourguignon, senior (1865-1921), Lucien Bourguignon (1904-1953).
Alfred Bourguignon, sr, and sons; Ottawa, c1916

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Old
04-21-2012, 10:54 PM
  #46
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Who could forget the Montagnards?

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