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Offseason discussion continued (Contract chart in Post #1)

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Old
04-21-2012, 10:20 AM
  #76
Jag68Sid87
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The eyeball test suggests there is no balancing act for the defense. The older vets need to be phased out. The young talent needs to be implemented. Letang, Niskanen, Engelland and Bortuzzo on the right side; Despres, Strait and Morrow on the left. Keep one of Orpik or Michalek for veteran presence. But reduce their minutes and responsibilities. And getting rid of Martin and Lovejoy should be a given at this point.

Despres-Letang
Orpik or Michalek-Niskanen
Morrow-Engelland
Strait, Bortuzzo

Spend the off-season money on re-signing Crosby and Staal and finding a backup goaltender who will either mentor Fleury or push him hard. Tinker up front mainly with regards to Crosby's wingers and the fourth line. I'd like to trade Cooke in the off-season while he still has value. And getting rid of Bylsma's toy Adams should also be considered. A trade of Cooke could open up a third-line role for Tangradi, which would be nice. And I would sign George Parros to be our new enforcer for the fourth line, replacing Asham.

Dupuis-Crosby-?
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Staal-Kennedy
Jeffrey-Vitale-Parros

That looks pretty good to me.

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04-21-2012, 10:30 AM
  #77
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He's not going to get rid of all the veterans on this team. And even if he did, he'd bring in more veterans. I can't see him sticking with a defensive corps whose average age is 21.

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Old
04-21-2012, 10:48 AM
  #78
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You're not going to see a guy like Despres going from playing 5 minutes a night in the playoffs to suddenly be on the top pairing after 1 summer. I like Despres, and have little doubt he'll be a very good top-4 d-men sooner rather than later.. But he might not even start next season on the big club, depending on how Shero feels about Bortuzzo & Strait clearing waivers and what is best for Despres' development.

Orpik is going to stay. He's a veteran with Cup experience, a reasonable cap hit and he's one of only two consistently physical defensemen on the team (other being Engelland). I feel like our blueline should be much, much more physical, and trading Orpik would make it much less so.

I'm OK with backing off his minutes, though. And that might mean dressing 7 d more often during the regular season. That way you can still have Orpik playing with Letang, who complement eachother well, while also giving the odd shift to Strait or Niskanen with Letang. It might also mean asking Brooks to make adjustments to his game.. essentially being a little less seek-and-destroy and a little more positionally sound.

I think a lot of the issue with our blueline is just our breakout in general. The whole "go north" thing is fine, but any team that only has one fixed system is going to be exploited now and again. A lot of our D's issues this season were turnovers, mostly because teams (finally) learned that if you take away the wall and step up on the (usually stationary) wingers, you're going to generate a lot of turnovers that will result in a 3-on-2 counter attack on flatfooted d-men.

The Penguins need to be able to adjust accordingly. Reversing the puck and having a more tightly-packed breakout should be part of their repertoire, and something they should be able to switch on and off at the drop of a hat. All the best teams can play several different styles, both with and without the puck.

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Old
04-21-2012, 01:15 PM
  #79
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Despres being on the team next year, in a bottom pairing role or, at best if his play dictates it, a second pairing role, I'm fine with. But it's crazy that some folks have him penciled in on the top pairing.

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04-21-2012, 01:34 PM
  #80
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This is a veteran team and they're starting to play like one. Nevertheless, picking up a veteran scoring presence (a la Sullivan again, who is a good fit) and a veteran d-man that can competently play on the 2nd or 3rd pairing, would be best. Adding some leadership will be critical this offseason.

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Old
04-21-2012, 01:48 PM
  #81
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Lets just play 4 D pairings & no 4th line.

Letang-Orpik
Niskanen-Despres
Engelland-Strait
Michalek-Martin

4 left shots, 4 right shots. Works perfect.

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Old
04-21-2012, 02:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by BrookswasHere44 View Post
Antropov. Me likes
Would like him too but where would he fit?

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Old
04-22-2012, 12:50 PM
  #83
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So who else is on board for not just bringing in a competent back-up but instead either trading Fleury or acquiring a a guy like Bernier/Harding/other young guy looking for a shot or even possbily Halak (Elliot has been lights out this post-season in addition to his crazy regular season, would love to have Halak)

I literally can't take MAF anymore. If Pens would have lost game 7 in Detroit, MAF would be gone from this team after the Montreal debacle. I would be extremely disappointed if MAF is the clear-cut number 1 next season. If put in a job-sharing situation, I have little doubt that he would crumble due to the pressure of having to play for his job, plus his co-goalie would put up better numbers.

Watch some other playoff series, Henrik, Anderson, Schenider, Smith, Quick, Holtby, Elliot and Rinne and so on get hung out to dry and make huge saves, let alone let the bumble**** goals MAF puts in the net on his own. Ilya Bryzgalov is clearly outplaying him, says it all. If MAF was never a 1st overall pick, he would have never gotten the long leash he has. It's not all the defense's fault. I'm afraid that a decade from now, Pens fans are going to look back at the Geno & Sid era and wondered how much better it could have been with a good goalie.


Last edited by Sivek: 04-22-2012 at 12:56 PM.
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Old
04-22-2012, 01:02 PM
  #84
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IMO we should jump at least to the Top 10 in the draft.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:03 PM
  #85
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seriosuly question, without overreacting, what needs to be done this offseason.

imo, i think martin and orpik need to go.

I'm undecided on DB, not sure if it would be a kneejerk reaction to fire him.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:05 PM
  #86
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Old
04-22-2012, 01:06 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azntam View Post
seriosuly question, without overreacting, what needs to be done this offseason.

imo, i think martin and orpik need to go.

I'm undecided on DB, not sure if it would be a kneejerk reaction to fire him.
2 out of the Martin/Orpik/Michalek group has to go, no if's and's or but's, move them at all costs. Also need to acquire a legit goalie. I don't have any problem with the forward configurations other than letting Sullivan walk and giving Tangradi a shot with one of Staal/Sid/Geno next year.

I think DB needs to go, watch a team like the Coyotes and you'll see what a real coach can do with average talent. Just look at Smith and Bryzgalov's numbers there compared to elsewhere. He must be doing something right.


Last edited by Sivek: 04-22-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
04-22-2012, 01:08 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
2 out of the Martin/Orpik/Michalek group has to go, no if's and's or but's. Also need to acquire a legit goalie. I don't have any problem with the forward configurations other than letting Sullivan walk and giving Tangradi a shot with one of Staal/Sid/Geno next year.
no clue why anyone would want to see michalek go after his performance this playoff. he was solid.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
no clue why anyone would want to see michalek go after his performance this playoff. he was solid.
If I had to keep one, it'd definitely be Michalek but it's not like he's been great this year. The Pens have something like 13 mil per year tied up into these 3 for a number of seasons into the future. You can't sink that much money into a position and have it this bad. Strait and Bortuzzo could step in for 1.5 mil total and not have a drop-off.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:10 PM
  #90
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Number 1 priority is to get an NHL caliber backup. Trading Fleury would be nice too. Maybe there is someone still out there living in the myth that hes a clutch franchise goaltender. If so, the return could be quite decent.

Trading for Halak would make a lot of sense. But i doubt St Louis would let him go cheaply. But in the ideal world we trade for Halak and sign Harding as a cheap backup.

Get rid of the old 4th line grinders like Adams and Park. They have no value on the team when they can barely play at even strength. Let guys like Vitale,Jeffrey and Tangradi get more ice time.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:13 PM
  #91
azntam
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
no clue why anyone would want to see michalek go after his performance this playoff. he was solid.
he's been ok, i wouldnt get rid of him based on the fact that we can't unload 3 guys in 1 offseason.

what do we do about fleury? do we wait another year to see what happens and give him one last chance? the price of a solid backup with starter potential is too steep imo. are there any number one goalies that would be shopped 1 for 1?

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:18 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
he's been ok, i wouldnt get rid of him based on the fact that we can't unload 3 guys in 1 offseason.

what do we do about fleury? do we wait another year to see what happens and give him one last chance? the price of a solid backup with starter potential is too steep imo. are there any number one goalies that would be shopped 1 for 1?
Yeah the price would be steep, but what of it? Pens just can't keep running MAF out there and think everything is okay. If they want a legit goalie, they can't nickel and dime it, trade the holy grail 1st round pick when the draft's in Pittsburgh and Bennet/other guys and go from there. MAF wasn't Shero's draft pick so he would be less hesitant to move him than if he made the selection. Don't know who would want him, but who knows?

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:24 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
Yeah the price would be steep, but what of it? Pens just can't keep running MAF out there and think everything is okay. If they want a legit goalie, they can't nickel and dime it, trade the holy grail 1st round pick when the draft's in Pittsburgh and Bennet/other guys and go from there. MAF wasn't Shero's draft pick so he would be less hesitant to move him than if he made the selection. Don't know who would want him, but who knows?
just checked and saw harding is ufa. could we sell to him that we are trading fleury once he's signed? i'm sure the leafs would take fleury. could get a solid return too

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:36 PM
  #94
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One thing to keep in mind, there will be a new CBA in effect next season with a high liklihood the player's overall share of revenue will be reduced from the current 57%. While we obviously don't know what the final % will be the NFL dropped to 48% and the NBA to 50% in their latest CBAs signed last year. Something in the 50-52% range for the NHL strikes me as the likely range.

I would be surprised if the cap for next season exceeds $66m once the new CBA is finalized.

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Old
04-22-2012, 01:47 PM
  #95
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I think one that has become apparent is Sullivan though an effective offensive player, is a liability on defense.

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04-22-2012, 02:01 PM
  #96
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So what now try and dump Martin as fast as possible?

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Old
04-22-2012, 02:02 PM
  #97
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So here's the thing.. I don't see Bylsma going anywhere. Shero comes from the Nashville/Ottawa school, where they stuck with Trotz and Jacques Martin through practically everything. In addition to that, I don't see any better coaching candidates than Bylsma out there. But perhaps they can shake up the team, improve the defense AND the special teams by dumping Reirden for a guy like Paul Maurice or (if CBus doesn't retain him) Todd Richards.

Martin has to go. That's it. For a late pick, a measly prospect or just future considerations. He's gone.

I don't think it'll be difficult to lure a goaltending free agent here, as long as it's made clear to them that playing time will be earned and Fleury won't be handed anything.

So, bury Martin in a shallow grave, upgrade the coaching staff (without a complete overhaul), sign a good backup, and maybe with the left-over cap room grab a guy like Ray Whitney, Brad Boyes or Jarrett Stoll for Crosby's RW. Call it an offseason.

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04-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
So here's the thing.. I don't see Bylsma going anywhere. Shero comes from the Nashville/Ottawa school, where they stuck with Trotz and Jacques Martin through practically everything. In addition to that, I don't see any better coaching candidates than Bylsma out there. But perhaps they can shake up the team, improve the defense AND the special teams by dumping Reirden for a guy like Paul Maurice or (if CBus doesn't retain him) Todd Richards.

Martin has to go. That's it. For a late pick, a measly prospect or just future considerations. He's gone.

I don't think it'll be difficult to lure a goaltending free agent here, as long as it's made clear to them that playing time will be earned and Fleury won't be handed anything.
Not that I disagree, but Orpik and Michalek were just as bad.

At this point I think it makes sense to look at moving all three of them. Despres and Strait were no worse (I would argue Strait was actually better). With Morrow, Harrington, and Bortuzzo all pushing for jobs behind them you're looking at $10-11 million in savings for a defense that will at least be the same quality we saw this year.

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04-22-2012, 02:10 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
So here's the thing.. I don't see Bylsma going anywhere. Shero comes from the Nashville/Ottawa school, where they stuck with Trotz and Jacques Martin through practically everything. In addition to that, I don't see any better coaching candidates than Bylsma out there. But perhaps they can shake up the team, improve the defense AND the special teams by dumping Reirden for a guy like Paul Maurice or (if CBus doesn't retain him) Todd Richards.

Martin has to go. That's it. For a late pick, a measly prospect or just future considerations. He's gone.

I don't think it'll be difficult to lure a goaltending free agent here, as long as it's made clear to them that playing time will be earned and Fleury won't be handed anything.

So, bury Martin in a shallow grave, upgrade the coaching staff (without a complete overhaul), sign a good backup, and maybe with the left-over cap room grab a guy like Ray Whitney, Brad Boyes or Jarrett Stoll for Crosby's RW. Call it an offseason.
I want a strong backup so badly right now.

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Old
04-22-2012, 02:11 PM
  #100
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Not that I disagree, but Orpik and Michalek were just as bad.

At this point I think it makes sense to look at moving all three of them. Despres and Strait were no worse (I would argue Strait was actually better). With Morrow, Harrington, and Bortuzzo all pushing for jobs behind them you're looking at $10-11 million in savings for a defense that will at least be the same quality we saw this year.
Orpik was, but Michalek wasn't on their level. He wasn't good, but he was better than them.

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