You really have no arguement if you haven't seen Dallman play.
Dallman's a great KHLer but someone like Kirill Koltsov could put up similar numbers if put in the same circumstance.
Seriously, despite the opinions from various posters (from numerous countries) in this thread, it's comical that the only person pimping Dallman is a biased Canadian who's never actually seen him play.
I have seen Dallman play and since the topic is the best players outside of the NHL I can pretty much guarantee I have seen more KHL games than you have AHL games and there are lots of AHLers who deserve consideration. Even if I hadn't seen Dallman play heaven forbid we actually evaluate these guys based on their accomplishments.
Also Janne Niskala, he played 6 games in Tampa Bay in 08-09, 3 points in 6 games but returned to europe, not sure why. Also i think he holds the record of most points by a D in elitserien
From some online khl playoffs games I'd say Anisin. Small but talented. Kuznetsov, Ramo, Cervenka, Tarasenko impressed. Dallman was good but not great versus Federov's team, prefered Hutchinson. Mozyakin has skills.
Koltsov looked very pedestrian in the series against Dynamo. Flaky defense, didn't play with much fire, bad passes etc... When he is on, he has a lot of offensive skill, but as an all round defenseman he has a lot of holes in his game. If your talking best player outside of NHL, this guy doesn't belong in the conversation. I think he could play a PP role in the NHL, but would need a lot of work to secure a regular shift.
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.
I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.
Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.
I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.
Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.
Not likely. There are ex-NHLers in Europe who could still be in the NHL if the asking price was right. Players in AHL simply aren't good enough to crack an NHL lineup.
Not likely. There are ex-NHLers in Europe who could still be in the NHL if the asking price was right. Players in AHL simply aren't good enough to crack an NHL lineup.
Lots of NHL coaches / GM's prefer to let players mature in the AHL. It's not that those players couldn't be in the NHL, they just feel it is better for their development to spend more time in the minors. There are even a few in the AHL for salary cap reasons.
The list of ex-NHLers in Europe who are still good enough to come back is pretty short right now. Who is it you are refering to?
Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 04-22-2012 at 11:04 AM.
Also Janne Niskala, he played 6 games in Tampa Bay in 08-09, 3 points in 6 games but returned to europe, not sure why. Also i think he holds the record of most points by a D in elitserien
He is really good two-way defenseman.
I would have to agree on this, havent payed as much attention to the KHL like most years but watching some highlights this guy is really good
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.
I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.
Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.
I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.
I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.
To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.
I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.
I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.
To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.
Just for the record do you also consider Karlsson as the best NHL player?
Just for the record do you also consider Karlsson as the best NHL player?
No this year the best player was Malkin. Dallman has finished 6th once and 5th once. Karlsson has finished 11th once, so not really comparable yet. I will say that Karlsson is a gazillion times better than Dallman and the best d-man in the NHL this year.
He was #2 in points last year, behind his TEAMMATE, Radulov.
He moved to Petersburg where he continued to shine. Though he missed 13 games, he still was top 12 in scoring. Impressive. I think its no wonder that Radulovs points dropped once he stepped out of the team.
Maybe not the new best guy, but boy is he special.
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.
I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.
I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.
To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.
You're agenda is transparent. "Dallman is the best!", yet when disagreed with, "You're biased against Dallman!" Well, sorry, a lot of KHL fans are citing non-Russians and/or players who've played in NA before.....there is no bias.
Dallman's numbers are incredible; BUT statistics should be put into context (go to the history board....that's lesson #1).
If Dallman was THAT dominant, why has he been a KHL 1st team only once?.....oh, that's right, the KHL is biased! Silly me.
Please watch the KHL on a regular basis before making such bold statements and stop turning threads into flame fests of nationalities and/or Europe vs NA. I don't know why the mods put up with you.
No this year the best player was Malkin. Dallman has finished 6th once and 5th once. Karlsson has finished 11th once, so not really comparable yet. I will say that Karlsson is a gazillion times better than Dallman and the best d-man in the NHL this year.
If Karlsson would of had only 5 more points, he would be a top 5 scorer this year. Would these 5 more secondary assists would make him the best player in the league? It's kinda obvious you put to much stock in point making when you are evaluating players.
If Karlsson would of had only 5 more points, he would be a top 5 scorer this year. Would these 5 more secondary assists would make him the best player in the league? It's kinda obvious you put to much stock in point making when you are evaluating players.
and with 5 less Karlsson would be in 20th, with 10 more Dallman would have finished 1st in KHL scoring....
Since NHL expansion in '67 (and probably earlier - I didn't check) only Orr, Coffee and Potvin have managed to finish in the top 5 of league scoring as Dallman did. Only Orr and Coffee have finished in the top 6 more than once as Dallman as done. Also keep in mind that Coffee only did this playing with Gretzky or Lemieux. This shows just how rare an accomplishment what Dallman did is.
Top 11 has been done by Karlsson, Leetch, Macinnis, Borque, Potvin, Coffee and Orr. Also very impressive, but not quite to the same degree. It is Karlsson's first year putting up big offensive numbers. If he does it again he will get the recognition he deserves.
Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 04-22-2012 at 08:55 PM.
You're agenda is transparent. "Dallman is the best!", yet when disagreed with, "You're biased against Dallman!" Well, sorry, a lot of KHL fans are citing non-Russians and/or players who've played in NA before.....there is no bias.
Dallman's numbers are incredible; BUT statistics should be put into context (go to the history board....that's lesson #1).
If Dallman was THAT dominant, why has he been a KHL 1st team only once?.....oh, that's right, the KHL is biased! Silly me.
Please watch the KHL on a regular basis before making such bold statements and stop turning threads into flame fests of nationalities and/or Europe vs NA. I don't know why the mods put up with you.
yet when someone picks a north american for this list your first statement was that they were not allowed to have an opinion. I'll let your record and personal attacks stand for themselves.
One question.
If the KHL isn't biased why do they limit their number of foreign players?
yet when someone picks a north american for this list your first statement was that they were not allowed to have an opinion. I'll let your record and personal attacks stand for themselves.
Say whatever you want. But when one holds a such silly but steadfast opinion on something they have little experience in or knowledge of (KHL), expect some feedback. Don't take offense, happens all the time on HF.
FACT = European, NA, Chinese, earth, martian, whatever..Dallman's origin doesn't matter....he just isn't the best player in the KHL; and that's the consensus of all who watch him play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk
One question.
If the KHL isn't biased why do they limit their number of foreign players?
There is no bias.
A limit on imports make foreign players valuable and sought after commodities. People treat assets in high demand very well. This actually nullifies your "Dallman get's no respect because of bias against NA!" shtick.
We see the same thing in the CHL. They roll the red carpet out for imports.
He was #2 in points last year, behind his TEAMMATE, Radulov.
He moved to Petersburg where he continued to shine. Though he missed 13 games, he still was top 12 in scoring. Impressive. I think its no wonder that Radulovs points dropped once he stepped out of the team.
Maybe not the new best guy, but boy is he special.
Say whatever you want. But when one holds a such silly but steadfast opinion on something they have little experience in or knowledge of (KHL), expect some feedback. Don't take offense, happens all the time on HF.
FACT = European, NA, Chinese, earth, martian, whatever..Dallman's origin doesn't matter....he just isn't the best player in the KHL; and that's the consensus of all who watch him play.
There is no bias.
A limit on imports make foreign players valuable and sought after commodities. People treat assets in high demand very well. This actually nullifies your "Dallman get's no respect because of bias against NA!" shtick.
We see the same thing in the CHL. They roll the red carpet out for imports.
As silly as you claim my argument is I am the only one who has backed anything up here with facts. Facts that no one has disputed.
I'm sure you would admit, and your posting history shows, you are extremely pro-Russian and anti-Canadian. Because of this your opinion on these matters means absolutley nothing to me. Unless you have some actual evidence to support your claims then I don't know what there is to talk about.
Silly me.
