HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Hockey Talk by Country > Hockey Talk by Country
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Hockey Talk by Country Talk about the other countries that are playing the world's greatest game!

Who is the New "Best Player Outside of NHL"?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-15-2012, 02:55 AM
  #26
King Forsberg
21 68 88 16 44 28
 
King Forsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Nikolay Zherdev is pretty good.

King Forsberg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2012, 06:03 AM
  #27
perklunt
qwerty
 
perklunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 441
vCash: 500
Kirill Koltsov is so much better than Dallman tbh, ive seen Dallman playing live and on tv, nothing special to me, just another avarage defenceman.

perklunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2012, 06:24 AM
  #28
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
You really have no arguement if you haven't seen Dallman play.
Dallman's a great KHLer but someone like Kirill Koltsov could put up similar numbers if put in the same circumstance.

Seriously, despite the opinions from various posters (from numerous countries) in this thread, it's comical that the only person pimping Dallman is a biased Canadian who's never actually seen him play.
I have seen Dallman play and since the topic is the best players outside of the NHL I can pretty much guarantee I have seen more KHL games than you have AHL games and there are lots of AHLers who deserve consideration. Even if I hadn't seen Dallman play heaven forbid we actually evaluate these guys based on their accomplishments.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2012, 11:51 AM
  #29
Zamuz
Registered User
 
Zamuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Finland
Country: Jamaica
Posts: 1,301
vCash: 500
Also Janne Niskala, he played 6 games in Tampa Bay in 08-09, 3 points in 6 games but returned to europe, not sure why. Also i think he holds the record of most points by a D in elitserien

He is really good two-way defenseman.

Zamuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-15-2012, 02:27 PM
  #30
Hanji
Registered User
 
Hanji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 903
vCash: 500
From some online khl playoffs games I'd say Anisin. Small but talented. Kuznetsov, Ramo, Cervenka, Tarasenko impressed. Dallman was good but not great versus Federov's team, prefered Hutchinson. Mozyakin has skills.

Hanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 12:51 AM
  #31
malkinfan
Registered User
 
malkinfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to malkinfan
Koltsov looked very pedestrian in the series against Dynamo. Flaky defense, didn't play with much fire, bad passes etc... When he is on, he has a lot of offensive skill, but as an all round defenseman he has a lot of holes in his game. If your talking best player outside of NHL, this guy doesn't belong in the conversation. I think he could play a PP role in the NHL, but would need a lot of work to secure a regular shift.

malkinfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 07:12 AM
  #32
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,913
vCash: 500
lol at people just promoting players from their country in this thread

zorz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 06:46 AM
  #33
TheFatOne
Mr.Negativo
 
TheFatOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,629
vCash: 500
Emil Alengård.

TheFatOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-21-2012, 04:11 AM
  #34
niljano
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 73
vCash: 500
Zigmund Palffy

niljano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 01:20 AM
  #35
Shootmaster_44
Registered User
 
Shootmaster_44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,183
vCash: 500
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.

I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.

Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.

Shootmaster_44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 01:29 AM
  #36
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.

I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.

Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.
Not likely. There are ex-NHLers in Europe who could still be in the NHL if the asking price was right. Players in AHL simply aren't good enough to crack an NHL lineup.

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 01:39 AM
  #37
HalbertGil*
crab whom enjoy
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: mongolia
Country: Laos
Posts: 767
vCash: 500
Since we've covered Cervenka, Kuznetsov, etc; here's some more to add to this.

Patrick Thoresen
Magnus Johansson (still)

Goalies haven't been mentioned yet.
Jakub Stepanek
Mikhail Biryukov
Erik Ersberg
do we include Viktor Fasth

HalbertGil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 02:13 AM
  #38
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Not likely. There are ex-NHLers in Europe who could still be in the NHL if the asking price was right. Players in AHL simply aren't good enough to crack an NHL lineup.
Lots of NHL coaches / GM's prefer to let players mature in the AHL. It's not that those players couldn't be in the NHL, they just feel it is better for their development to spend more time in the minors. There are even a few in the AHL for salary cap reasons.

The list of ex-NHLers in Europe who are still good enough to come back is pretty short right now. Who is it you are refering to?


Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 04-22-2012 at 12:04 PM.
Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 02:22 AM
  #39
Gerin
Registered User
 
Gerin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Coast
Posts: 122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Also Janne Niskala, he played 6 games in Tampa Bay in 08-09, 3 points in 6 games but returned to europe, not sure why. Also i think he holds the record of most points by a D in elitserien

He is really good two-way defenseman.
I would have to agree on this, havent payed as much attention to the KHL like most years but watching some highlights this guy is really good

Gerin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 12:02 PM
  #40
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
For those saying Kevin Dallman is the best, remember the reason he is in Russia is that the LA Kings didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL. I haven't seen him play since he went to Russia, but I remember him with the Kings and I wasn't too sad to see him leave instead of spending another year in Manchester. Not a knock against the KHL, but Dallman is akin to the MLBer who goes to Japan and is dominant. He has some talent but isn't one of the potential NHL stars in the league.

I realize that this thread is largely aimed at Europe, but are there Canadian Hockey League/NCAA/AHL players who'd make this list over the Europeans? I'm not trying to spark a Europe vs. North America battle, I am asking this legitimately.

Last time I saw the handle "best player outside of NHL" it was attributed to current Washington Capitals goalie Braden Holtby. So I have no idea who would even make this list, but I'm fairly certain it is not Kevin Dallman.
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.

I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.

I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.

To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 12:42 PM
  #41
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,836
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.

I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.

I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.

To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.
Just for the record do you also consider Karlsson as the best NHL player?

ozo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 02:09 PM
  #42
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Just for the record do you also consider Karlsson as the best NHL player?
No this year the best player was Malkin. Dallman has finished 6th once and 5th once. Karlsson has finished 11th once, so not really comparable yet. I will say that Karlsson is a gazillion times better than Dallman and the best d-man in the NHL this year.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 03:27 PM
  #43
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,534
vCash: 500
Patrick Thorosen

Norweigen player who was a stud in QMJHL

Now plays in KHL.

He was #2 in points last year, behind his TEAMMATE, Radulov.
He moved to Petersburg where he continued to shine. Though he missed 13 games, he still was top 12 in scoring. Impressive. I think its no wonder that Radulovs points dropped once he stepped out of the team.

Maybe not the new best guy, but boy is he special.

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 04:10 PM
  #44
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Just to be clear I am not saying that Dallman is the best outside of the NHL, in fact he is far from it. What I am saying is that he is the best in the KHL (especially now that Radulov is gone) and by extension that probably makes him the best in Europe. The kind of offensive numbers Dallman has put up as a D-man are unbelievable and leagues may only see D-men that can finish as high as 5th in league scoring once every century.

I understand that Dallman will never get the recognition he deserves in the KHL. To say that your best player is someone who had ample opportunity to make the NHL but could not goes against the claims most KHL fans make of the quality of their league. I should also say that there are lots of players in Europe right now with the potential to be much better than Dallman ever was.

I expect the quality of players in the KHL to continue to improve so it probably won't be long until there are players there who are clearly good enough to be in the NHL.

To be fair this thread should have probably been called "The Best Europeans Outside of the NHL". I think most people are assuming that any North Americans good enough to play in the NHL would choose the NHL over playing in Europe. Also in a sense anyone in the AHL is in the NHL system.
You're agenda is transparent. "Dallman is the best!", yet when disagreed with, "You're biased against Dallman!" Well, sorry, a lot of KHL fans are citing non-Russians and/or players who've played in NA before.....there is no bias.

Dallman's numbers are incredible; BUT statistics should be put into context (go to the history board....that's lesson #1).
If Dallman was THAT dominant, why has he been a KHL 1st team only once?.....oh, that's right, the KHL is biased! Silly me.

Please watch the KHL on a regular basis before making such bold statements and stop turning threads into flame fests of nationalities and/or Europe vs NA. I don't know why the mods put up with you.


Last edited by Zine: 04-22-2012 at 05:17 PM.
Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #45
ozo
Registered User
 
ozo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,836
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to ozo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
No this year the best player was Malkin. Dallman has finished 6th once and 5th once. Karlsson has finished 11th once, so not really comparable yet. I will say that Karlsson is a gazillion times better than Dallman and the best d-man in the NHL this year.
If Karlsson would of had only 5 more points, he would be a top 5 scorer this year. Would these 5 more secondary assists would make him the best player in the league? It's kinda obvious you put to much stock in point making when you are evaluating players.

ozo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 09:14 PM
  #46
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
If Karlsson would of had only 5 more points, he would be a top 5 scorer this year. Would these 5 more secondary assists would make him the best player in the league? It's kinda obvious you put to much stock in point making when you are evaluating players.
and with 5 less Karlsson would be in 20th, with 10 more Dallman would have finished 1st in KHL scoring....

Since NHL expansion in '67 (and probably earlier - I didn't check) only Orr, Coffee and Potvin have managed to finish in the top 5 of league scoring as Dallman did. Only Orr and Coffee have finished in the top 6 more than once as Dallman as done. Also keep in mind that Coffee only did this playing with Gretzky or Lemieux. This shows just how rare an accomplishment what Dallman did is.

Top 11 has been done by Karlsson, Leetch, Macinnis, Borque, Potvin, Coffee and Orr. Also very impressive, but not quite to the same degree. It is Karlsson's first year putting up big offensive numbers. If he does it again he will get the recognition he deserves.


Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 04-22-2012 at 09:55 PM.
Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2012, 09:20 PM
  #47
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
You're agenda is transparent. "Dallman is the best!", yet when disagreed with, "You're biased against Dallman!" Well, sorry, a lot of KHL fans are citing non-Russians and/or players who've played in NA before.....there is no bias.

Dallman's numbers are incredible; BUT statistics should be put into context (go to the history board....that's lesson #1).
If Dallman was THAT dominant, why has he been a KHL 1st team only once?.....oh, that's right, the KHL is biased! Silly me.

Please watch the KHL on a regular basis before making such bold statements and stop turning threads into flame fests of nationalities and/or Europe vs NA. I don't know why the mods put up with you.
yet when someone picks a north american for this list your first statement was that they were not allowed to have an opinion. I'll let your record and personal attacks stand for themselves.

One question.
If the KHL isn't biased why do they limit their number of foreign players?

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 12:16 AM
  #48
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
yet when someone picks a north american for this list your first statement was that they were not allowed to have an opinion. I'll let your record and personal attacks stand for themselves.
Say whatever you want. But when one holds a such silly but steadfast opinion on something they have little experience in or knowledge of (KHL), expect some feedback. Don't take offense, happens all the time on HF.


FACT = European, NA, Chinese, earth, martian, whatever..Dallman's origin doesn't matter....he just isn't the best player in the KHL; and that's the consensus of all who watch him play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
One question.
If the KHL isn't biased why do they limit their number of foreign players?
There is no bias.
A limit on imports make foreign players valuable and sought after commodities. People treat assets in high demand very well. This actually nullifies your "Dallman get's no respect because of bias against NA!" shtick.
We see the same thing in the CHL. They roll the red carpet out for imports.


Last edited by Zine: 04-23-2012 at 04:49 AM.
Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 12:18 AM
  #49
HalbertGil*
crab whom enjoy
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: mongolia
Country: Laos
Posts: 767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Patrick Thorosen

Norweigen player who was a stud in QMJHL

Now plays in KHL.

He was #2 in points last year, behind his TEAMMATE, Radulov.
He moved to Petersburg where he continued to shine. Though he missed 13 games, he still was top 12 in scoring. Impressive. I think its no wonder that Radulovs points dropped once he stepped out of the team.

Maybe not the new best guy, but boy is he special.
He's my pick.

HalbertGil* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-23-2012, 08:02 AM
  #50
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,696
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Say whatever you want. But when one holds a such silly but steadfast opinion on something they have little experience in or knowledge of (KHL), expect some feedback. Don't take offense, happens all the time on HF.

FACT = European, NA, Chinese, earth, martian, whatever..Dallman's origin doesn't matter....he just isn't the best player in the KHL; and that's the consensus of all who watch him play.

There is no bias.
A limit on imports make foreign players valuable and sought after commodities. People treat assets in high demand very well. This actually nullifies your "Dallman get's no respect because of bias against NA!" shtick.
We see the same thing in the CHL. They roll the red carpet out for imports.
As silly as you claim my argument is I am the only one who has backed anything up here with facts. Facts that no one has disputed.

I'm sure you would admit, and your posting history shows, you are extremely pro-Russian and anti-Canadian. Because of this your opinion on these matters means absolutley nothing to me. Unless you have some actual evidence to support your claims then I don't know what there is to talk about.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.