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Old
04-23-2012, 08:59 PM
  #101
etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzieFleaSlash View Post
I don't get statements like this. What has Clifford actually done that makes him an obvious choice over Richardson?
Playoff monster.

I can go all the way back to his midget days and give you stats that show he has always raised his games during the playoffs but lets start with what he has done so far in the NHL.

6 games
3 goals
2 assists
5 points

Heavy hitter and plays solid two way hockey. Can be an intimidating force when he raises his game to do so which seems to happen every time he is in the playoffs.

There is a reason Vancouver targeted him early.

Simple for me anyways.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:10 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Playoff monster.

I can go all the way back to his midget days and give you stats that show he has always raised his games during the playoffs but lets start with what he has done so far in the NHL.

6 games
3 goals
2 assists
5 points

Heavy hitter and plays solid two way hockey. Can be an intimidating force when he raises his game to do so which seems to happen every time he is in the playoffs.

There is a reason Vancouver targeted him early.

Simple for me anyways.
Clifford, a playoff monster???

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

And if Vancouver targeted Clifford (which I also strongly disagree), the coach should be fired. Clifford is nothing more than an afterthought. He's nothing that any team is going to focus on or even discuss imo.

Having said that, I do believe that Clifford will be a better player in the years to come, but right now, he's not worth any concern to an opposing team.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:22 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Clifford, a playoff monster???

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

And if Vancouver targeted Clifford (which I also strongly disagree), the coach should be fired. Clifford is nothing more than an afterthought. He's nothing that any team is going to focus on or even discuss imo.

Having said that, I do believe that Clifford will be a better player in the years to come, but right now, he's not worth any concern to an opposing team.
You may disagree but the numbers (so far) simply do not. Cliff was one of our top players against the sharks last year.

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04-23-2012, 09:26 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Clifford, a playoff monster???

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

And if Vancouver targeted Clifford (which I also strongly disagree), the coach should be fired. Clifford is nothing more than an afterthought. He's nothing that any team is going to focus on or even discuss imo.

Having said that, I do believe that Clifford will be a better player in the years to come, but right now, he's not worth any concern to an opposing team.
How isnt his past production, all of it worthy of calling him a playoff monster? It was better than most of our entire team last season and he was a hitting machine that got right under the skin of our opponents.

I mean I am going only on last years performance and I can't see any reason that he wouldn't be an automatic priority guy for us in the playoffs.

We don't have to see eye to eye on everything but I do have to ask what criteria do you find important for a bottom 6 winger during the playoffs? Agitator who plays solid two way hockey that scores 3goals and 2 assists in 6 games looks pretty good to me.

As for being targeted I agree that AV should be fined for what happened. Take a look at who he chose to play and what his reputation is and then take a look at who that person targeted from the moment he could and let me know where else to draw my conclusion from.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:28 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
You may disagree but the numbers (so far) simply do not. Cliff was one of our top players against the sharks last year.
Yes, Clifford on a line with Richie and Simmonds I believe. And if my memory serves me correct, all 3 players were a liability on defense, were they not?

In any case, there isn't a huge difference between Richie and Clifford which is my main argument.

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04-23-2012, 09:32 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Yes, Clifford on a line with Richie and Simmonds I believe. And if my memory serves me correct, all 3 players were a liability on defense, were they not?

In any case, there isn't a huge difference between Richie and Clifford which is my main argument.
?

Richie is soft as babypoop.

Cliffy was minus 2 last year but he was a, a rookie and b, on a line with Richie who had a terrible year defencively.

Clifford was very solid in every zone last year where Richie was and remains streaky. When he is good he is good but when he is not he is very not.

Next season if Richie and Cliffy where both ufa's and you had to sign one which would he be?

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04-23-2012, 09:37 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
?

Richie is soft as babypoop.

Cliffy was minus 2 last year but he was a, a rookie and b, on a line with Richie who had a terrible year defencively.

Clifford was very solid in every zone last year where Richie was and remains streaky. When he is good he is good but when he is not he is very not.

Next season if Richie and Cliffy where both ufa's and you had to sign one which would he be?
Sorry, but a minus 2 player isn't exactly considered a playoff monster but moreso a playoff liability.

Of course I would prefer to sign Clifford but that's not the point of this discussion. We're talking about which should start in the playoffs, not re-sign next year.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:44 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Sorry, but a minus 2 player isn't exactly considered a playoff monster but moreso a playoff liability.

Of course I would prefer to sign Clifford but that's not the point of this discussion. We're talking about which should start in the playoffs, not re-sign next year.
Fair enough.

Richardson was minus 4.

Can you make an argument that would make Richardson the better choice over Clifford?

He was -4 on the same line as Clifford during last years playoffs.

Richie has a worse plus minus during the regular season and less points than Clifford too.

I admit that Clifford had his "sophomore slump" this year but the guy is an impact player who is an intimidating factor on the ice as well.

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04-23-2012, 09:53 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Fair enough.

Richardson was minus 4.

Can you make an argument that would make Richardson the better choice over Clifford?

He was -4 on the same line as Clifford during last years playoffs.

Richie has a worse plus minus during the regular season and less points than Clifford too.

I admit that Clifford had his "sophomore slump" this year but the guy is an impact player who is an intimidating factor on the ice as well.
Like I said, there really isn't much of a separation from one to another. Right now, I would give Richie the edge based on recent play and his speed.

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04-23-2012, 10:08 PM
  #110
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I will just say this about this little disagreement. Clifford is much more aware in his own zone than is Richardson.

Richardson is a quick demon on the forecheck though. I love seeing him come out onto the ice whenever there is an offensive zone faceoff. He creates a lot of turnovers with his quickness.

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:12 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Like I said, there really isn't much of a separation from one to another. Right now, I would give Richie the edge based on recent play and his speed.
You can't argue Richie's speed for certain.

We both have our opinions as to which would be the better option and that is cool. Both have their strengths so I guess either way will work to start things out.

Either way our team made it to the second round and we can both be very happy about that.

Common ground rules!

Cant wait for the next round to start.

GO KINGS GO

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:24 PM
  #112
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Sounds like game 1 will start at Saturday afternoon! Ewww.

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:54 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Sounds like game 1 will start at Saturday afternoon! Ewww.
Source ?

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:55 PM
  #114
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Why does it have to be Clifford vs Richardson? They should both be in the lineup.

If Cliff replaces anyone, it should be Penner.

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04-23-2012, 11:01 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Why does it have to be Clifford vs Richardson? They should both be in the lineup.

If Cliff replaces anyone, it should be Penner.
I personally thought that Penner played well in that series. I would go with Richardson-Fraser-Clifford on that 4th line. Nolan has played well, but richardson has been great since he got back, and i would love to give Cliff a chance to show us that last years playoff performance was not an anomaly.

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04-23-2012, 11:09 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruel11 View Post
Sounds like game 1 will start at Saturday afternoon! Ewww.
Better not, afternoon games are almost a guaranteed loss

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Old
04-24-2012, 12:40 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I will just say this about this little disagreement. Clifford is much more aware in his own zone than is Richardson.

Richardson is a quick demon on the forecheck though. I love seeing him come out onto the ice whenever there is an offensive zone faceoff. He creates a lot of turnovers with his quickness.
Going forward, it's a good thing we have a be22er version of that type of player!

This series, Clifford should replace King in the lineup (move Penner to the second line).

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04-24-2012, 01:17 AM
  #118
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Let's get this thing started!

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04-24-2012, 01:20 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
Going forward, it's a good thing we have a be22er version of that type of player!

This series, Clifford should replace King in the lineup (move Penner to the second line).
Was thinking the same thing! King hasn't been good lately. But this move would actually work I think.

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04-24-2012, 01:23 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by savemefromtears View Post
Have to strongly disagree.

For as many fights as Fraser has lost, he's been the backbone of that gritty 4th line.

This.

It's almost funny how weak he is in fights, but he's got the heart of a champion. He is extremely effective at his role though.

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04-24-2012, 09:33 AM
  #121
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Ken Hitchock tries to jinx us!

Quote:
ST. LOUIS -- While the St. Louis Blues still don't know when they will begin their second-round playoff series against the Los Angeles Kings, coach Ken Hitchcock is laying some pretty good groundwork.

Especially after watching the eighth-seeded Kings bump top-seeded Vancouver out of the playoffs in five games with a 2-1 overtime victory on Sunday.

"When you beat the Presidents Trophy winner, you become the No. 1 seed and I think everybody knows that," said Hitchcock, whose second-seeded Blues will enjoy home-ice advantage for the series. "Obviously when you beat the Presidents Trophy winner, that's very significant. To win it in five games gets the whole world's attention.


"We all know how good they are and how strong of a team they've got."

They should, the Blues lost three of four to the Kings during the regular season.

While San Jose never backed off from physical play in the Blues' Round 1 victory, Hitchcock said to expect another level of intensity from the Kings.

"L.A. plays nasty. They play real nasty," he said. "They, to a man, play with an edge. They follow the coach's orders and they finish all the checks, they don't swing away on anything.

"They won all the board battles (Sunday), that's why they won the hockey game. They play with a level of commitment to physical play that's going to be a challenge for any team, so we're first up."

Does Hitchcock want the Blues to answer the Kings' rough stuff with some of their own? Not necessarily.

"No, I think it's important that we fight through things," Hitchcock said. "By the time this thing settles...everybody;s going to know with what's left that there's a fighting chance for everybody.

"I think it gets amped up because there's only eight teams left and some of the favorites are gone now..the Detroits and Vancouvers, they're gone now...Pittsburgh...so everybody's gotta think 'Man, we've got a chance of a lifetime here."'

The Blues have to wait for the league's other first-round series to end before finding out their Round 2 schedule.

Making things tougher is the Kings' home arena is currently the host to not only a hockey team, but also the NBA's Los Angeles Lakers and Los Angeles Clippers.

All three teams will be in the playoffs, creating a major scheduling dilemma.

"A lot of guys would like to know what the schedule is," Blues captain David Backes said after practice on Monday. "There's an uneasiness of not knowing if it's Thursday, if it's Friday, Saturday. Whatever it's going to be, just to have that schedule so you can put in preparation and a timeline would be nice.

"The guys in here are anxious, they're excited. There's a lot of energy here after a day off and it was a good day of practice."

The Blues and Kings mirror each other with high-end skill, young talent, solid defense and shutdown goaltending.

"I think Perry (David Perron) said something on Twitter (how) it's going to be the first game that's zero to negative-one," joked Backes. "We like those types of games, those one-goal games and low scoring. That's our style."

Halak ruled out

Injured Blues goaltender Jaroslav Halak has been ruled out for the first two games of the teams' second-round series against Los Angeles. The announcement was made Monday after practice by Hitchcock.

Blues goalie Brian Elliott came on in relief of Halak to finish off the win in Game 2 against the Sharks, then won three straight games to close out the series.

Halak suffered a lower-body injury, believed to be an ankle injury, during a collision with Blues defenseman Barret Jackman in the second period of Game 2.

"Jaro is not going to be around for the first two games and then we'll see from there," Hitchcock said of Halak, who was supposed to skate on his own Sunday.

Elliott led the NHL with a 1.56 goals-against average and posted nine shutouts, so Hitchcock is quickly tiring of questions about his validity as a starter.

"He's been good for such a long time we just expect it," Hitchcock said. "Everybody talks around the league this is a surprise. Well I don't know why it's a surprise when your body of work the whole year...you look the same every night.

"He's just a good goalie and we're lucky. We're lucky we've got a guy like him."

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Old
04-24-2012, 10:50 AM
  #122
AKAY47
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I'll take Clifford in the lineup over Penner any day. The guy is so slow, it hurts to watch, he's a liability out there. I think Kevin Westgarth is faster than him

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04-24-2012, 10:51 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer View Post
that 4th line has been a major factor in getting this team into the playoffs, as well as bringing some outstanding play towards the end of the van series. Through it all, there's been a constant and it's name is colin fraser.
+1000

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04-24-2012, 11:08 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I'll take Clifford in the lineup over Penner any day. The guy is so slow, it hurts to watch, he's a liability out there. I think Kevin Westgarth is faster than him
What?

Penner's been hustling his pancakes off in the playoffs. He's lost the puck and made a couple bad passes, yeah. But he's also backchecking hard. Several times it was his backchecking that saved a scoring chance. He wasn't doing that early on in the year. He's also had some good puck possession and some really good passes. I think he's due for a coule goals this series.

It's a tough decision who to put in amongst Clifford/Richie/etc., but Penner should stay in.

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Old
04-24-2012, 11:14 AM
  #125
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Is King not even in this Richardson/Clifford discussion? I realize our turnaround began when he and Nolan were called up, and he's a big body. But he seems in over his head out there. It could help him to watch a couple games. Lineup becomes more experienced, with more speed while only losing a little size.

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