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Old
04-23-2012, 08:15 PM
  #51
cbj21
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A great thing about Nash is that who ever he play with, no matter what line he is on, that line will always be a scoring line.
Thats pretty special if you ask me.

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04-23-2012, 09:22 PM
  #52
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as a fan of neither team, i think columbus is over reaching, Nash is a good but not franchise player, I wouldnt give up Kreider Staal Callahan DelZotto or McDonogh in any deal either. 7.8M a year is alot of cap space and Nash rightfully wants to play meaningful games.

after giving Columbus all he's had he probably feels the team owes him some loyalty too, eventually he'll grow very bitter if his feelings are ignored and right now hes probably torn because he is a decent guy and he wants to help the only franchise hes ever known, but sooner or later he will grow bitter, thats why i say that the fans are over reaching. there is a human being in that uniform, not a machine and you need to understand that

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04-23-2012, 10:38 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Coldshot's point is still good: Rangers have options. Nash is not the only sniper and we are not overpaying ridiculously for anybody, especially with that huge contract --- YOU have to pay us in discounted value to take it off your hands.

Kreider is OFF the table.

And God bless Fla w/Campbell, 'cause he certainly wasn't worth 7ish mil, especially when they had other contracts to cover. Panthers deserve fruits of their labor, but it's not like Brian C is singlehandedly the difference maker here.

Rangers have options? Is that a joke? Sens are my favorite team, and are rebuilding and doing very well against this team who is being saved by the best goalie in the world Henrik Lundqvist who are supposed to be a cup contender. The only reason Rangers aren't golfing right now is phantom calls from referees which resulted in 5 on 3 power play only on one end.

Yea Campbell wasnt worth the contract, he is only a 50 point 25 minute d-man on a 3 seed, yea but he isn't a good hockey player..... if Chicago doesn't come back against Phoenix they look like damn idiots on this one.



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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
They went out first round with him so it's not like his loss has made a huge difference to them, they're certainly not much if any worse than they were a year ago.

Rangers may deal for Nash, but I doubt they do it before they take their best shot at Parise. If they get Parise as a UFA then why bother trading a boatload when they can upgrade their offence without giving up all those pieces?

Columbus is in a tough spot with Nash especially if the list of teams he's willing to go to is as small as was rumoured. The team paid a premium to keep him happy and in Columbus, not many other teams will be willing to match that price and it sure wont be their first option.
I'm sure Rangers will take a good shot at Parise. They should. The point is there are 30 teams, and most Rangers fans think he is a high probability. They are out of their minds because they can barely beat a rebuilding team and dont have the cap space. He wants to be on a contender with cap to spend. Common sense isn't very common. That is my point. Hello Red Wings.

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04-23-2012, 10:52 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Because if the Rangers lose, they will be one of, if not the top bidder for Parise.



And they'll go for a better player that's had more point per game seasons and plays a far better all-around game that has much more experience in the playoffs.



No, none of us are, we're looking at the production of what is a perennial 30 goal scorer that's making 7.8 million a year and just barely broke the 30 goal mark this year.



Chicago had their backs against the wall to retain the core players they wanted (Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook) you couldn't have used a far worse comparison.

And despite what Columbus fans think (apparently you guys know the Rangers farm system better than we do, and you also apparently know all of the other GM's better than everyone including the analysts who break the very trades and rumors that fuel these forums we post on) that offer wasn't ****, and all of the analysts at TSN were shocked that the final offer for Nash was turned down.



Yeah, because I said that he can go to 9 teams, I can do what you do as well...

"Oh, so you are another person that thinks Parise will not go to the Rangers just because it's the Rangers".

Same stupid principal, same end result. You look like a child.



I hope he does and it reduces his value even more and Columbus is contractually obligated to a guy that doesn't even show up to play and gives the organization an even bigger black eye than it already has for the debacle that was the Rick Nash trade deadline saga.

Might as well fold them at that point, it would be apparent that no one wants to play there.
1) Zach Parise wants to go to a contender. If Rangers can't even beat a rebuilding team? Seriously... Have you watched the series at all?

2) They'll go for a better player? Sure.. that sounds like a good point. Which one is realistically available? I guess you're crystal ball says the Rangers will sign Suter and Parise while the rest of the teams stand pat and do nothing?

3) Again cap numbers... if General Managers were that concerned on cap Numbers explain to me why Brian Campbell and Scott Gomez were ever traded? Maybe because GM's want skilled players?

4) Chicago had their backs against the walls? No CHICAGO HAVE THEIR BACKS AGAINST THE WALLS. I called it before, they lack the defensive depth. Oduya is a 4-5 while Campbell is at least 2-3. A solid ALL STAR defenseman has left their team and they are struggling. What a shocker. Call CNN on this one!

5) You are right. I dont know your system as well as you do. At the same time, your fanbase is trying to tell me J.T. Miller a guy who can barely produce a point a game while being in the OHL is better than Mark Stone a guy who averages closer to 2 PPG at a similar level. Also, that offer had Erixon, a guy who is a HUGE question mark who is NOT on their NHL team, not even a Del Zotto. It had J.T. Miller, and not Kreider, who i'm not entirely impressed with either despite his goal from 10 feet away earlier tonight.

The only thing I agree with, is that Del Zotto, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st is ridiculous for Nash. But the rumored Sather garbage offer was even worse.


Last edited by TSA0402: 04-23-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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04-24-2012, 12:51 AM
  #55
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Did I seriously read that Johansen is better or at the very least on par with Yakupov? I knew Yakupovs value would drop on HF as soon as Edmonton won the lottery but thats a little extreme

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04-24-2012, 01:04 AM
  #56
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Did I seriously read that Johansen is better or at the very least on par with Yakupov? I knew Yakupovs value would drop on HF as soon as Edmonton won the lottery but thats a little extreme
who said that? that is shenanigans.

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04-24-2012, 01:18 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Personally I don't think EDM or CBJ does the first one. Personally I think Johansen is better than the forwards available in this year's draft so for me that's a big overpayment. Second, Johansen is a Center and holds more value than a wing. Third, we just spend 2 years of development with Johansen with one being at the NHL level already so why go back two steps (especially if Johansen is believed to be the better option - like I think).

No go for me on the first deal..
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
As for the OP, the first proposal is pretty good value speaking, Edmonton might want a bit more, but the big issue is it worth trading Johansen to get Yakupov from a blue jacket standpoint? I like having the center over the winger.
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
None of these deals work for me. We don't have a need for MDZ as much now, not enough to lose Nash and trading Johansen for Yakupov doesn't make much sense considering we would have no centers, and Johansen is probably going to be just as good as Yakupov except playing a more valuable position. I'd have to say no to both of these proposals because it doesn't really help us, it just shifts our current problems.
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Originally Posted by wahsnairb View Post
who said that? that is shenanigans.
There you have it. Yakupov will make a bigger impact regardless of what position he plays next year and every year(barring some career injury)

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04-24-2012, 01:26 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Did I seriously read that Johansen is better or at the very least on par with Yakupov? I knew Yakupovs value would drop on HF as soon as Edmonton won the lottery but thats a little extreme
You do realize this Yakupov hasn't played one game in the NHL. Right?????

I guess being familiar with mediocre teams you can't grasp the concept of having a solid top line center. Unless in some delusional land you foresee Yakupov becoming that.

Its good to see Kovalchuk doing so well against the Florida Panthers.

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04-24-2012, 01:27 AM
  #59
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There you have it. Yakupov will make a bigger impact regardless of what position he plays next year and every year(barring some career injury)
oh, well obviously i do not share that sentiment if i was adding solid pieces to johansen for him.

especially if you consider his value off the ice i think he would be far better for the jackets than johansen. i think most of the posters you quoted value centers far more than wingers (and you can't blame them even if in this instance it may be silly) and players who have had time to progress over players who haven't seen the NHL

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04-24-2012, 01:49 AM
  #60
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You do realize this Yakupov hasn't played one game in the NHL. Right?????
Oh this argument This is where I respond with 4th line player for your 1st round pick/prospect because they havent played a game in the NHL. You do realize that Johansen didnt exactly have an impressive season right?
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I guess being familiar with mediocre teams you can't grasp the concept of having a solid top line center. Unless in some delusional land you foresee Yakupov becoming that.

Its good to see Kovalchuk doing so well against the Florida Panthers.
I'm very familiar with my team and old enough to have watched Gretzky, Messier, Weight, and now RNH.
I have no idea why you are bringing up Kovalchuk and the Panthers. Unless your trying to say that Weiss is a far better player than Kovalchuk

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04-24-2012, 01:52 AM
  #61
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Rangers have options? Is that a joke? Sens are my favorite team, and are rebuilding and doing very well against this team who is being saved by the best goalie in the world Henrik Lundqvist who are supposed to be a cup contender. The only reason Rangers aren't golfing right now is phantom calls from referees which resulted in 5 on 3 power play only on one end.
Of course you're a Senators fan, your apparent bias and inability to actually watch a hockey game and call it down the middle shows. All of you Senators fans have shown me one thing throughout this entire series. Every single one of you is a homer. Neil apparently is an angel, but I guess we forgot all about his headshot on Drury that caused Lindy Ruff to go goon squad on Spezza-Alfredsson-Heatley.

You guys got a kicked in goal after Lundqvist was knocked down. I've NEVER in my life heard Henrik Lundqvist complain about officials. He shuts his mouth and plays hockey, and he was fuming and said something about the officials. You guys got HANDED the game on a silver platter, and you blew it. Rupp getting called for a rough penalty when him and Konopka got into a shoving match?

You're a joke. Keep crying to the refs for more calls, and get lost, apparently you need them to win games.

Quote:
Yea Campbell wasnt worth the contract, he is only a 50 point 25 minute d-man on a 3 seed, yea but he isn't a good hockey player..... if Chicago doesn't come back against Phoenix they look like damn idiots on this one.
They look like idiots? They were able to keep Toews (Conn Smythe winner), Kane (young superstar player who lead that 2010 team in regular season scoring with 88 points) Marian Hossa (one of the best all-around players in the game) Sharp (a perennial 30+ goal scorer and a key cog to their offense) Duncan Keith (Norris winner) and Brent Seabrook (a top shutdown defender). If Brian Campbell was that important to that team, wouldn't he have been among the core 6 that were kept?

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I'm sure Rangers will take a good shot at Parise. They should. The point is there are 30 teams, and most Rangers fans think he is a high probability. They are out of their minds because they can barely beat a rebuilding team and dont have the cap space. He wants to be on a contender with cap to spend. Common sense isn't very common. That is my point. Hello Red Wings.
First off, there's no guarantee Lidstrom retires, especially being ousted like that. If he does, Ryan Suter will end up a Red Wing, thus leaving them without the cap space to get both Suter and Parise.

Apparently common sense isn't very common, you might want to watch what you're saying, and who you're saying it about, because those words don't apply to me here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
1) Zach Parise wants to go to a contender. If Rangers can't even beat a rebuilding team? Seriously... Have you watched the series at all?
I did, the Rangers with Hagelin back did exactly what I thought they would, win.

Chew on that.

Quote:
2) They'll go for a better player? Sure.. that sounds like a good point. Which one is realistically available? I guess you're crystal ball says the Rangers will sign Suter and Parise while the rest of the teams stand pat and do nothing?
Did I say they'd get Suter AND Parise? Where in the blue hell did I ever mention Ryan Suter's name in regards to the Rangers in any previous post I've made in this thread?

Quote:
3) Again cap numbers... if General Managers were that concerned on cap Numbers explain to me why Brian Campbell and Scott Gomez were ever traded? Maybe because GM's want skilled players?
Because Montreal and Florida had space and a need. If there's an anmnesty buyout in the new CBA, Gomez is a lock to get bought out, and Campbell was a low-risk high reward no-brainer for Florida, considering that they didn't have to give up much due to Chicago's cap situation.

Quote:
4) Chicago had their backs against the walls? No CHICAGO HAVE THEIR BACKS AGAINST THE WALLS. I called it before, they lack the defensive depth. Oduya is a 4-5 while Campbell is at least 2-3. A solid ALL STAR defenseman has left their team and they are struggling. What a shocker. Call CNN on this one!
Do you have trouble comprehending things? Chicago had their backs against the walls capwise and was forced to trade nearly half of their team in 2010 for the cup. Of course that's what's going to happen when you gut your team to keep your core and attempt to fill in holes with in adequate stop-gaps. It's like plugging holes in plumbing with gum. It's not gonna work.

Aside from Campbell, look at the players on that cup winning team that left. Byfuglien, Versteeg, Ladd, Kopecky, Brouwer, Madden, Eager. That's EIGHT players that played key roles for Chicago in their cup run. You think bringing back Campbell solves ALL of their problems?

Piss poor argument.

Quote:
5) You are right. I dont know your system as well as you do. At the same time, your fanbase is trying to tell me J.T. Miller a guy who can barely produce a point a game while being in the OHL is better than Mark Stone a guy who averages closer to 2 PPG at a similar level. Also, that offer had Erixon, a guy who is a HUGE question mark who is NOT on their NHL team, not even a Del Zotto. It had J.T. Miller, and not Kreider, who i'm not entirely impressed with either despite his goal from 10 feet away earlier tonight.
Are you seriously comparing JT Miller to Mark Stone?

1. JT Miller is a 1st round draft pick, for good reason. Mark Stone is a 6th round pick, for good reason

2. JT Miller scored a point per game in his FIRST YEAR in the OHL as a 17 year old that just turned 18 a month ago. It took Mark Stone his first two seasons to score 67 points, it only took JT Miller ONE YEAR to score 62. That MIGHT be just why Mark Stone went in the 6th round in his draft year, and JT Miller went in the first.

3. Stone just finished his FOURTH season in the OHL, while Miller finished his FIRST.

Again, another piss poor argument that makes no sense.

And how the hell is Erixon (who has played well with the big club) a question mark? The scouts have him at the very least a top-4 defender, and there's nothing that tells me that he won't be a top-4 defender one day from his play. Try watching the kid actually play instead of forming an opinion based on a reputation gathered on HF boards.

Quote:
The only thing I agree with, is that Del Zotto, Kreider, Dubinsky and a 1st is ridiculous for Nash. But the rumored Sather garbage offer was even worse.
The sad part is that "garbage offer" was the best offer that was confirmed to have been actually been offered by legitimate sources. Gee, I wonder what the league thinks of Nash and Howson's asking prices.

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04-24-2012, 02:04 AM
  #62
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Oh this argument This is where I respond with 4th line player for your 1st round pick/prospect because they havent played a game in the NHL. You do realize that Johansen didnt exactly have an impressive season right?
I'm very familiar with my team and old enough to have watched Gretzky, Messier, Weight, and now RNH.
I have no idea why you are bringing up Kovalchuk and the Panthers. Unless your trying to say that Weiss is a far better player than Kovalchuk
Except that Ryan Johansen isn't a 4th line player. If you actually watched what he was doing you'd realize that. Yes its easy to look at stats on a sheet, but it doesn't tell you anything.

Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Doug Weight, RNH... Now you see three of these guys have played excellent to hall of fame hockey careers, one has played 50 some hockey games.

I guess common sense isn't very common anymore.

Kovalchuk is basically the ceiling of Yakupov, even if its being a tad generous, and how having one player like that can be overrated at times. First line Center and a Franchise defenceman is much more important than a first line winger.

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04-24-2012, 02:20 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Of course you're a Senators fan, your apparent bias and inability to actually watch a hockey game and call it down the middle shows. All of you Senators fans have shown me one thing throughout this entire series. Every single one of you is a homer. Neil apparently is an angel, but I guess we forgot all about his headshot on Drury that caused Lindy Ruff to go goon squad on Spezza-Alfredsson-Heatley.

You guys got a kicked in goal after Lundqvist was knocked down. I've NEVER in my life heard Henrik Lundqvist complain about officials. He shuts his mouth and plays hockey, and he was fuming and said something about the officials. You guys got HANDED the game on a silver platter, and you blew it. Rupp getting called for a rough penalty when him and Konopka got into a shoving match?

You're a joke. Keep crying to the refs for more calls, and get lost, apparently you need them to win games.



They look like idiots? They were able to keep Toews (Conn Smythe winner), Kane (young superstar player who lead that 2010 team in regular season scoring with 88 points) Marian Hossa (one of the best all-around players in the game) Sharp (a perennial 30+ goal scorer and a key cog to their offense) Duncan Keith (Norris winner) and Brent Seabrook (a top shutdown defender). If Brian Campbell was that important to that team, wouldn't he have been among the core 6 that were kept?



First off, there's no guarantee Lidstrom retires, especially being ousted like that. If he does, Ryan Suter will end up a Red Wing, thus leaving them without the cap space to get both Suter and Parise.

Apparently common sense isn't very common, you might want to watch what you're saying, and who you're saying it about, because those words don't apply to me here.



I did, the Rangers with Hagelin back did exactly what I thought they would, win.

Chew on that.



Did I say they'd get Suter AND Parise? Where in the blue hell did I ever mention Ryan Suter's name in regards to the Rangers in any previous post I've made in this thread?



Because Montreal and Florida had space and a need. If there's an anmnesty buyout in the new CBA, Gomez is a lock to get bought out, and Campbell was a low-risk high reward no-brainer for Florida, considering that they didn't have to give up much due to Chicago's cap situation.



Do you have trouble comprehending things? Chicago had their backs against the walls capwise and was forced to trade nearly half of their team in 2010 for the cup. Of course that's what's going to happen when you gut your team to keep your core and attempt to fill in holes with in adequate stop-gaps. It's like plugging holes in plumbing with gum. It's not gonna work.

Aside from Campbell, look at the players on that cup winning team that left. Byfuglien, Versteeg, Ladd, Kopecky, Brouwer, Madden, Eager. That's EIGHT players that played key roles for Chicago in their cup run. You think bringing back Campbell solves ALL of their problems?

Piss poor argument.



Are you seriously comparing JT Miller to Mark Stone?

1. JT Miller is a 1st round draft pick, for good reason. Mark Stone is a 6th round pick, for good reason

2. JT Miller scored a point per game in his FIRST YEAR in the OHL as a 17 year old that just turned 18 a month ago. It took Mark Stone his first two seasons to score 67 points, it only took JT Miller ONE YEAR to score 62. That MIGHT be just why Mark Stone went in the 6th round in his draft year, and JT Miller went in the first.

3. Stone just finished his FOURTH season in the OHL, while Miller finished his FIRST.

Again, another piss poor argument that makes no sense.

And how the hell is Erixon (who has played well with the big club) a question mark? The scouts have him at the very least a top-4 defender, and there's nothing that tells me that he won't be a top-4 defender one day from his play. Try watching the kid actually play instead of forming an opinion based on a reputation gathered on HF boards.



The sad part is that "garbage offer" was the best offer that was confirmed to have been actually been offered by legitimate sources. Gee, I wonder what the league thinks of Nash and Howson's asking prices.
I don't even like Chris Neil. I thought that spear at the end on Lundqvist was ridiculous and that there should have been at least two 5 on 3's for Ottawa. One on a boarding/tripping on Karlsson and one delay of game. We're not all the same, but at the same time, you really don't know what you're talking about.

J.T. Miller was higher rated at the time than Mark Stone, your feeble argument is that players cannot gain draft ranking, and its pretty damn stupid. I guess I should see if I can ask for Alex Daigle back because Daniel Alfredsson clearly isn't doing well enough. Newsflash, Mark Stone is one year older, and on a much more efficient path. You have no numbers that could possibly show otherwise.

I seriously question your hockey knowledge and I'm not going to spend all day with this crap. Chicago had a good team because of elite young players and big UFA signings and now they have been ousted two years in a row. Cap space, excuse, excuse, more ********, excuse. When has an elite team like Detroit ever *****ed about cap space? They aren't signing sub-par goalies to 30 million dollar deals and really good defenseman to albatross contracts when they won't be able to afford it later on. I'm done.

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04-24-2012, 04:13 AM
  #64
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Can we get back on topic please?

Look, no offense to the original poster, but the Blue Jackets have no need to make either of these moves. Giving up your top prospect to potentially get a new top prospect is a lateral move at best. As for the Rangers trade, if that offer is the best Howson can get for Nash I have no doubt that we see Nash on this team in 2012-2013. Nash cares too much about the fan base to hold out. Plus, that just isn't in his character. Whether or not a poster here believe Nash should be considered a franchise player is irrelevant, to the Columbus Blue Jackets' management he is. If somebody wants him they will have to pay a premium.

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04-24-2012, 04:52 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafer97 View Post
Klefbom, 1st for Johansen, 1st
Klefbom for Johansen is a sideways move, not a good trade for us to move down IMO

Quote:
Hemsky for 15-20 OVR of low scoring team
Hemsky will very likely rebound to his previous levels. He started looking like himself again as the year progressed, he's been a very good 1st line winger for far too long to give up on him for another prospect. We need to keep our good players and add some more, not picks.

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Khabibulin for 2nd rounder
Haha i wish...

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04-24-2012, 06:01 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Except that Ryan Johansen isn't a 4th line player. If you actually watched what he was doing you'd realize that. Yes its easy to look at stats on a sheet, but it doesn't tell you anything.

Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Doug Weight, RNH... Now you see three of these guys have played excellent to hall of fame hockey careers, one has played 50 some hockey games.

I guess common sense isn't very common anymore.

Kovalchuk is basically the ceiling of Yakupov, even if its being a tad generous, and how having one player like that can be overrated at times. First line Center and a Franchise defenceman is much more important than a first line winger.
Who is this first line center and franchise defenceman that are getting comparisons to Kovalchuk? That's not common sense. That is stupidity. Johansen isn't a first line center and in no way is he more important than a 50 goal scorer. Yakupov is a game breaker. I don't see how Johansen could be more important than Yakupov at this stage.

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04-24-2012, 06:04 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Except that Ryan Johansen isn't a 4th line player. If you actually watched what he was doing you'd realize that. Yes its easy to look at stats on a sheet, but it doesn't tell you anything.

Wayne Gretzky, Mark Messier, Doug Weight, RNH... Now you see three of these guys have played excellent to hall of fame hockey careers, one has played 50 some hockey games.

I guess common sense isn't very common anymore.

Kovalchuk is basically the ceiling of Yakupov, even if its being a tad generous, and how having one player like that can be overrated at times. First line Center and a Franchise defenceman is much more important than a first line winger.
It's more likely Yak becomes a first line winger than it is Ryan becomes a first line center.

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