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Hockey in Britain part 2

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04-23-2012, 03:08 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
Someone was talking about Prince and of course, it reminded me of Jack Prince haha

I haven't heard anything about him since last years world juniors. He played in the NAHL again last season and did pretty well. He looks like he could play division II NCAA. Any idea where this guy might end up?
Well he's 21 so I doubt he will be going to college, will probably play minor pro, I'll guess one of the Texas teams in the CHL. I have no idea where NAHL players typically end up so you'd have to help me out there. On the "where are they now" section of the Texas Tornado Elite Prospects page I see a fair amount of CHL and some ECHL players.

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04-23-2012, 03:12 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Well he's 21 so I doubt he will be going to college, will probably play minor pro, I'll guess one of the Texas teams in the CHL. I have no idea where NAHL players typically end up so you'd have to help me out there
NAHL players usually have a ton of guys who go to either a lower division NCAA team but the top scorers usually go to top division NCAA teams. He's been a consistent scorer in the NAHL for 3 years and he has great size at ~6'4" 210. I think 2 of this years NAHL top scorers already committed to top NCAA schools.

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04-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Thinking about a team to follow, anyone list me the pro's and con's of each team?
Hmm, from a neutral perspective...

Belfast - great squad each year, plenty of money and probably the most complete package off-ice of all of the EIHL. Tend to underachieve on the big stage and have quite a few insufferable fans, no junior system (as of yet).

Braehead - new, only been around two years but have crowbarred their way into the top 5. Good all-round squad. Turbulent coaching position, few British players and bankrolled by Nottingham's owner.

Cardiff - playoff specialists (made finals weekend every year but not actually won it, lost last 3 finals), big and physical with a conveyor belt of good homegrown talent, on the cusp of breaking into the 'big' teams regularly. Terrible rink, but a nice one on the way. Bit of a persecution complex.

Coventry - started at the bottom and worked their way up, closest thing to a dynasty the EIHL has had, breeding ground for great young Brits, never had a bad team until recently so fans tend to take lack of success very badly. Best coach in the league in ex-GB boss Paul Thompson. Nice jerseys.

Dundee - never set the scoreboard alight but get production from everyone, superb young Scottish players in their system, grounded viewpoint and probably one of the league's most sustainable teams financially.

Edinburgh - Very European style as that's where they tend to recruit from, been terrible for years and never spent much money but look to maybe turning their fortunes around under Richard Hartmann, long-suffering fans in a rickety rink that moan all the time but never give up. Stovies!

Fife - incredible tradition and ancient fortress of a rink, back from the doldrums of SNL hockey, play tons of Brits (rolled 4 lines at points last season), thinking long-term, doing things the hard way with a baptism of fire last season. Only spend the money they have and used to be famous for winning with less imports than everyone else. Deserve some success next year for Todd Dutiaume after a tragic end to the season.

Hull - briefly ceased to exist two summers ago, bought by Coventry but looking for buyers at the moment, caused upset of the EIHL era by making the finals weekend this month at Sheffield's expense. Perennial underdogs. Great chips.

Nottingham - money, money, money, fans hate them for it but their business model is faultless. Not won the league since 1956 but have cup and playoff wins all over the place. Team always looks like favourites on paper but fall out of the title race in Janaury like clockwork. Great arena. Supposed rivalry with Sheffield is constantly hyped up but it simply isn't what it was anymore. Unfortunately a sizable number of their fans are very arrogant.

Sheffield - model of consistency since their inception, off-ice never dull (bankruptcy left right and centre) but latest owner seems to have his head on right. Never a bad team, seem to retain a loyal core every year and benefit from a production line of talent on their doorstep. Ambitious.

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04-23-2012, 04:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I didn't say he is better, I said he has the ability to be better. I think Chamberlain has much more offensive potential but Farmer was much more likely to make it in NA due to being an all round player with size and some fighting ability.

Farmer played in the continental cup, in 2010-11 when he was 19, Bobby Chamberlain is 17 and started in the EIHL at 16. Stats aren't everything but Chamberlain was 1+3 in 58 EIHL games and when Farmer was that age he had 8+7 in 39 EPIHL games. The difference between EIHL and EPIHL is massive, there's no doubt Chamberlain would be better off in the EPIHL for his development and given how well he has done in the EIHL it's not unreasonable to think that he would have similar or better stats than Farmer when he was that age.

Edit: Dave Simms seems to think Stephen Lee is off to North America
When I said prospect I was trying to imply potential.

It was the year before as well, he was only 18 because he had to wear a cage.

Farmer has turned his agitation into more of an instigator role this season, but it hasn't worked out that well for him, he ends up in fights with big guys like Brock Wilson and Nick Duff and gets roughed up. He needs to grow into an agitator role like Jason Hewitt has, he will draw a lot of penalties, but is so skilled that it hurts his team for him to be sitting for 5 at a time.


Chamberlain is very feisty as well, he's had a couple of fights as well. He had to shed the cage first though.


Farmer also has the advantage of size, he's a big lad who's still growing into his frame, Chamberlain though is small. He's listed at 5'11", but damn he looks smaller than that.




Simms was spreading talk of Weaver going to Nottingham to replace Lee instead of going to Guilford.

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04-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
When I said prospect I was trying to imply potential.
Potential is individual perception. It's very difficult to tell how good a 17 year old will be when he is 21, I said that Chamberlain has the talent to turn out better than Farmer if he is put on the right development curve. I'm not saying Chamberlain is considered a better prospect now than Farmer was when he was that age, though I think Farmer probably exceeded the expectations a lot of people had of him when he was 17.

It's like the difference between saying Yakupov will be better than Ovechkin and saying Yakupov has the ability to be better than Ovechkin, at no point did I ever say Chamberlain absolutely will be better than Farmer, I said there is a good chance he will.

Also size counts for nothing in the EIHL, most rinks are Olympic size and there's hardly any hitting. I don't want to use the typical HF argument strategy of calling you a homer but people will always talk better of their own players and you're allowed to disagree with my opinions.


Last edited by Propane Nightmares: 04-23-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
  #156
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You'd be surprised at the physicality sometimes, and you better bring your hard hat when you travel down to the big, blue tent.

And if size counted for nothing then Ben Morgan would probably be playing in the EIHL.

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04-23-2012, 05:14 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
You'd be surprised at the physicality sometimes, and you better bring your hard hat when you travel down to the big, blue tent.

And if size counted for nothing then Ben Morgan would probably be playing in the EIHL.
The same Ben Morgan of the Steeldogs who stands at 6ft? Plus size is much more important for D than forward. Chamberlain is 17 and still growing.

The BBT where teams only travel to 3 times a season.

Again to re-iterate, size doesn't matter on Olympic ice http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10881 Matty Davies of Hull is listed as 5'6" and he does alright

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04-23-2012, 05:16 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
You'd be surprised at the physicality sometimes, and you better bring your hard hat when you travel down to the big, blue tent.

And if size counted for nothing then Ben Morgan would probably be playing in the EIHL.
This bit confused me a little. Isn't Ben Morgan 6'0"? That's not a bad size for a D-man (anywhere in the world). It's not huge buts it's not small... Small is Sam Zajac or Daniel McIntyre. Stephen Lee is only 5'11" which in North America you have to be pretty skilled to make it at that size.


Last edited by Scarecrow Boat: 04-23-2012 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Damn you 99 problems, you respond too fast!
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04-23-2012, 05:31 PM
  #159
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Blaze sign Sam Smith from Cardiff http://www.coventryblaze.co.uk/news_latest.php?id=2574

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=61716

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04-23-2012, 05:38 PM
  #160
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I've stood next to Morgan and he is 5'10"-1/2 or so, no way is he 6 foot.

I saw Morgan get pushed around (and in the end, out) of the EIHL by bigger forwards, who man handled him.

If you have size teams are far more willing to take a chance on you, guys like Josh Batch and Sam Smith down in Cardiff (or in Smith's case, soon to be Coventry).

If you're an undersized brit in the EIHL you better bulk out and be able to deal with the physical side of the game.

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04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
This bit confused me a little. Isn't Ben Morgan 6'0"? That's not a bad size for a D-man (anywhere in the world). It's not huge buts it's not small... Small is Sam Zajac or Daniel McIntyre. Stephen Lee is only 5'11" which in North America you have to be pretty skilled to make it at that size.

Lee and Zajac are super strong and physical, I've seen Zajac try to fight Voth and Lee can hold his own strength wise with Neil Clark and former AHL defenceman Matt Stephenson.

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04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #162
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Have you ever considered the possibility that he just wasn't good enough? Regardless of his size.

And you're contradicting yourself talking about Lee and Zajac. You can't teach height but you can teach strength, obviously Morgan didn't have the strength to make up for his lack of height, making him a liability, he was pushed out of the EIHL for his lack of strength not height. Look at guys like Ryan Callahan and Brad Marchand.

Edit: This all links back to Bobby Chamberlain, he is just a kid he has time to grow in both height and muscle.


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04-24-2012, 04:51 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Rob Farmer is the best prospect we've had in the past few years
Hmmmmm not so sure about that.

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04-24-2012, 05:59 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Hmmmmm not so sure about that.
Who is better then? You could make a case for Ben Bowns and Stephen Lee but obviously the Ottawa 67's saw something in Farmer drafting him. The only U24 players in the EIHL who scored more points than Farmer this year were Dowd and Peacock and they're both 23, and didn't have as good numbers as Farmer did this year when they were 21.

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04-24-2012, 06:48 AM
  #165
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I'd say Bowns, Peacock and Dowd myself.

Just a quick not on stats, its been reported that Dowd is a bit of a drama queen/****** or at least he was, and when he was a few years younger he didnt try as hard as he does now, might explain why Farmer has better stats now then Dowd did at 21.

They saw something in Farmer but not far enough to keep him, if Farmer can find himself getting top wages with a team like Belfast winning the league or moving to top Euro leagues like Dowd and with better stats then yes I'll concede that he's the better prospect.

I just remember Farmer as the little rat who could barely fight playing for the Scimitars, that might be clouding my judgement

Edit:

I'd also make a case for Aaron Nell, had a tough season with Coventry, subject to some player bullying if you believe some. I think he could be a leading Brit in the Elite.


Last edited by villevalo: 04-24-2012 at 06:50 AM. Reason: More stuff
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04-24-2012, 07:02 AM
  #166
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Dowd broke into the league with a great season and then believed the hype about himself and spent the summer in Thailand.

Then when he came back and the season started he was out of shape and thought he could dominate even though he wasn't game ready.

He had a really down year, but it was a wake-up call for him I think as he's been a different player since then.

Whether he's hard to coach I don't know, but I do know that Ben Simon thought he wasn't a hard enough two-way player and got on him for that, which he didn't like.

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04-24-2012, 08:20 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
I'd say Bowns, Peacock and Dowd myself.

Just a quick not on stats, its been reported that Dowd is a bit of a drama queen/****** or at least he was, and when he was a few years younger he didnt try as hard as he does now, might explain why Farmer has better stats now then Dowd did at 21.

They saw something in Farmer but not far enough to keep him, if Farmer can find himself getting top wages with a team like Belfast winning the league or moving to top Euro leagues like Dowd and with better stats then yes I'll concede that he's the better prospect.

I just remember Farmer as the little rat who could barely fight playing for the Scimitars, that might be clouding my judgement

Edit:

I'd also make a case for Aaron Nell, had a tough season with Coventry, subject to some player bullying if you believe some. I think he could be a leading Brit in the Elite.
To be clear I don't consider Dowd and Peacock to be from "the past few years." I said that with the intention of implying Farmer is the best since those guys. Bowns you can definitely make a case for but it's difficult to compare goalies and forwards. Nell broke out massively in his 2nd season with Swindon, I thought he was way overhyped before the season started in his first season and he had a disappointing year but then massively improved.

And the reason Farmer was released from his OHL team was because his team better needed defense and a Czech defenseman was available, and you can only have 2 imports, the other import on that team being the starting goalie Petr Mrazek. I think Farmer will almost certainly be at the level Dowd is now when he is 23.


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04-24-2012, 09:08 AM
  #168
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And the reason Farmer was released from his OHL team was because his team better needed defense and a Czech defenseman was available, and you can only have 2 imports, the other import on that team being the starting goalie Petr Mrazek.
Yea I know that, but if he was truely a great player, the team would decide his putting the points on the board beats the need for an import D, getting in a NA dman would have been a simpler decision if Farmer was worth his import place. Sucks for Farmer though, gotta blame the team for being silly and signing an import goalie in a 2 import system

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04-24-2012, 09:09 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Tom Norton resigned

Tom Norton resigned by the Panthers.

Thinking about a team to follow, anyone list me the pro's and con's of each team?
Bracknell Bees:

Pros: We have a rainbow in our rink.

Cons: Its 2012 and we still have that rainbow in our rink.

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04-24-2012, 09:23 AM
  #170
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He did well to just at least get a chance in that league though, the only other guy a CHL team has ever taken a chance on (drafting them straight out of GB not guys like Ben O'connor) was Stevie Lyle.

I'll add to the Bracknell rink:
Pros: It's warm, the ice is blue
Cons: The ice is always wet, it's decorated like the children's ward of a hospital, and you have to dodge numerous pucks if you sit upstairs behind the goals

Now I'll do Swindon:
Pros: Willie Wildcat is the most awesome mascot in all of sports, good sightlines, cheesy chips from the cafe
Cons: annoying kid who stands by the zamboni doors with his drum every game chanting "Ryan Aldridge barmy army" annoying man who stands behind the away goal shouting "HARDER!!" every time someone makes a hit, if you buy tickets late you are likely to be sat in the "kid zone" with all the schools, and the logo is copied from high school musical


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04-24-2012, 09:27 AM
  #171
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I had a post ready about Ben Bowns and I clicked one of my favorites and it went to that page and I lost the entire post. Basically, will Ben Bowns get a shot at the EIHL next season? His numbers are very very good the last 3 years, especially the last 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Yea I know that, but if he was truely a great player, the team would decide his putting the points on the board beats the need for an import D, getting in a NA dman would have been a simpler decision if Farmer was worth his import place. Sucks for Farmer though, gotta blame the team for being silly and signing an import goalie in a 2 import system
Adam Sedlak showed up on Waivers... The guy had 2 years experience in the OHL and without the option to trade in the OHL until New Years, they had to let Farmer go...

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04-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I had a post ready about Ben Bowns and I clicked one of my favorites and it went to that page and I lost the entire post. Basically, will Ben Bowns get a shot at the EIHL next season? His numbers are very very good the last 3 years, especially the last 2.
Rumours are he's staying in Sheffield for another year then going to Hull, or going straight to Hull. He's apparently said he won't leave the Steeldogs unless it's for an EIHL starting position.

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04-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I'll add to the Bracknell rink:
Pros: It's warm, the ice is blue
Cons: The ice is always wet, it's decorated like the children's ward of a hospital, and you have to dodge numerous pucks if you sit upstairs behind the goals

Now I'll do Swindon:
Pros: Willie Wildcat is the most awesome mascot in all of sports, good sightlines, cheesy chips from the cafe
Cons: annoying kid who stands by the zamboni doors with his drum every game chanting "Ryan Aldridge barmy army" annoying man who stands behind the away goal shouting "HARDER!!" every time someone makes a hit, if you buy tickets late you are likely to be sat in the "kid zone" with all the schools, and the logo is copied from high school musical
I sit at the very edge of block 1, I couldnt sit directly behin the goal, I've seen far too many people take one straight in the chops, especially when youve got goalies like Rockman who love to angle pucks off the glass.

The ice needs a good re-do, from scratch, re paint the lines etc. Its probably the only rink you could ever wear shorts in, but its too warm, you watch the zamboni go over the ice and it looks like someone had a go at it with a garden hose. Just want the Nike group to pull their finger out....sigh.

Never been to Swindon, although I know all about that silly away ticket situation. Probably wouldnt have been an issue had the rink been built properly.

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04-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Rumours are he's staying in Sheffield for another year then going to Hull, or going straight to Hull. He's apparently said he won't leave the Steeldogs unless it's for an EIHL starting position.
I donno why a team wouldn't want him. Wouldn't he help with that rule I hate about having a certain number of Brits on the ice at once?

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04-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I had a post ready about Ben Bowns and I clicked one of my favorites and it went to that page and I lost the entire post. Basically, will Ben Bowns get a shot at the EIHL next season? His numbers are very very good the last 3 years, especially the last 2.
He should do. We tried to sign him about half way through the 10/11 season, wish he'd signed.

Theres a big pressure on Elite teams to sign a good proven import goalie, not many take chances on Brits. Hull maybe, depends on who takes them over. I hope he gives Finnerty two fingers and signs for Nottingham.

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