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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XI

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04-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
You say a lot of stupid things, but this one takes the cake.
Nothing he said was incorrect. OEL is a better d-man than Yandle. OEL will win a Norris before all is said and done.

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04-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #127
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You say a lot of stupid things, but this one takes the cake.
The irony is profound.

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04-24-2012, 10:12 AM
  #128
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Irrelevant screed
Mike Green is broken because of a concussion history, multiple shoulder injuries and a surgically rebuilt groin and abdomen. On top of a failure to ever stay healthy and/or produce in April. Not because of some rubbish about Bondra.

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04-24-2012, 10:17 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Mike Green is broken because of a concussion history, multiple shoulder injuries and a surgically rebuilt groin and abdomen. On top of a failure to ever stay healthy and/or produce in April. Not because of some rubbish about Bondra.
Safe to say you don't have a Mike Green jersey in your Capitals wardrobe.

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04-24-2012, 10:22 AM
  #130
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Safe to say you don't have a Mike Green jersey in your Capitals wardrobe.
He was my favorite nu Cap. Now he can't stay healthy or score, so what's the point?

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04-24-2012, 10:28 AM
  #131
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i think the system has a lot to do with anyone not scoring from defense. in these playoffs the caps have one goal in 6 games from defense. mike green. the only defense with more points than green is hamrlik with 3 assists. wideman has an assist. carlson has an assist. alzner has an assist. erskine has an assist.

the caps leading scorer on defense for the last 16 games is hamrlik, green, wideman and carlson who all have 3 pts in that time.

dont judge any offensive d based on the super rope a dope.

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04-24-2012, 10:35 AM
  #132
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i think the system has a lot to do with anyone not scoring from defense. in these playoffs the caps have one goal in 6 games from defense. mike green. the only defense with more points than green is hamrlik with 3 assists. wideman has an assist. carlson has an assist. alzner has an assist. erskine has an assist.

the caps leading scorer on defense for the last 16 games is hamrlik, green, wideman and carlson who all have 3 pts in that time.

dont judge any offensive d based on the super rope a dope.
First of all, I don't agree.
The power play alone could add 30 points to anyone who logs major pp time. Further, even if you're not joining the rush, a smart dman who can pass will accumulate secondary assists under any system. Just look at the two studs in St. Louis. They each posted .5 ppg and play incredible d.

Second, Green has played 50 some games in two years. Too much risk. Why plan on filling such an important role with someone who can't be counted on to even show up?

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04-24-2012, 10:44 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
First of all, I don't agree.
The power play alone could add 30 points to anyone who logs major pp time. Further, even if you're not joining the rush, a smart dman who can pass will accumulate secondary assists under any system. Just look at the two studs in St. Louis. They each posted .5 ppg and play incredible d.

Second, Green has played 50 some games in two years. Too much risk. Why plan on filling such an important role with someone who can't be counted on to even show up?
same thing was said of varly when he left. things change. as for the power play....if you dont skate on the power play, you are not going to score. personally, think the caps have adjusted the pp to keep the puck down low as much as possible.

used to be that wideman and green and carlson were regular backdoor threats. caps dont even look at that anymore.

the caps play even the pp safe.

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04-24-2012, 10:47 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Mike Green is broken because of a concussion history, multiple shoulder injuries and a surgically rebuilt groin and abdomen. On top of a failure to ever stay healthy and/or produce in April. Not because of some rubbish about Bondra.
OK so what about Gary Roberts? Remember when he was "done" in 1996 after an awesome career? It took him about 2 years and he came back extremely strong. He sufferred a far more career threatening injury than all of Green's combined.

Lemieux came back from cancer and chronic back problems and was awesome.

There are plenty of players with far worse injuries than Green who have came back to have great success. It takes time in many cases to full get your groove back.

As far as the playoff goes...who has been Green's dpartner for the past several years??? He has had junk to work with and we never got him a compliment like Buekeboom or Samuelsson. The burden on him and him alone was far too great. That has been discussed many times.

Now he finally has a half decent partner in Hamrlik and they are leading the team in +/- for the series and have been excellent.

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04-24-2012, 10:48 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
same thing was said of varly when he left. things change. as for the power play....if you dont skate on the power play, you are not going to score. personally, think the caps have adjusted the pp to keep the puck down low as much as possible.

used to be that wideman and green and carlson were regular backdoor threats. caps dont even look at that anymore.

the caps play even the pp safe.
That must be why they give up so few shorthanded goals.

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04-24-2012, 10:54 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
same thing was said of varly when he left. things change. as for the power play....if you dont skate on the power play, you are not going to score. personally, think the caps have adjusted the pp to keep the puck down low as much as possible.

used to be that wideman and green and carlson were regular backdoor threats. caps dont even look at that anymore.

the caps play even the pp safe.
I am not limiting this to the past 6 games at all.

Green played 49 games last year, played 4 and a half minutes on the PP per game and put up a dismal 10 power play points.

He played 32 games this season, played 2:46 in the PP per game and put up 4 power play points.

And as already noted, I'm not talking about backdoor plays. Smart transition passes turn into assists everywhere in the league, no matter who is coaching.

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04-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
OK so what about Gary Roberts? Remember when he was "done" in 1996 after an awesome career? It took him about 2 years and he came back extremely strong. He sufferred a far more career threatening injury than all of Green's combined.

Lemieux came back from cancer and chronic back problems and was awesome.

There are plenty of players with far worse injuries than Green who have came back to have great success. It takes time in many cases to full get your groove back.

As far as the playoff goes...who has been Green's dpartner for the past several years??? He has had junk to work with and we never got him a compliment like Buekeboom or Samuelsson. The burden on him and him alone was far too great. That has been discussed many times.

Now he finally has a half decent partner in Hamrlik and they are leading the team in +/- for the series and have been excellent.
How many years do you want to wait?

How much cap space do you want to spend on Green while we wait? Five million spent on Green is five million we can't spend on an impact player elsewhere.

For every Gary Roberts or Mario Lemieux, there are ten Peter Forsbergs.

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04-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #138
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D-men are not allowed to be on the offensive except for Wideman.

And I laughed my head off when in a recent playoff game Hamrlik and Green led the charge into the offensive zone. I bet Hunter went ballistic on them between periods. I was yelling at them............."No, no, no - this is #DaleHunterHockey you idiots."

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Old
04-24-2012, 11:09 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
How many years do you want to wait?

How much cap space do you want to spend on Green while we wait? Five million spent on Green is five million we can't spend on an impact player elsewhere.

For every Gary Roberts or Mario Lemieux, there are ten Peter Forsbergs.
OK you let Green go...who do you replace him with? Players like him do not grow on trees.

Wideman?..uhhh

How bout a free agent like Brian Campbell who commands huge term and 7+ mil.

No likely we will have a guy like Mironov part II

You vastly undervalue Green. He's looking better and better and the only reason I can see him going is if Hunter comes back, gets a long term deal and wants different kinds of Dmen...like Wideman...

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04-24-2012, 11:12 AM
  #140
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Jason Garrison is better than Mike Green offensively AND defensively right now and he'll likely cost the same money or possibly less. Not difficult at all. We even save money on jersey stitching.

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04-24-2012, 11:19 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Jason Garrison is better than Mike Green offensively AND defensively right now and he'll likely cost the same money or possibly less. Not difficult at all. We even save money on jersey stitching.
The guy has had one good year..ONE..and he had 30 pts...and you want to give him the same amount??

Classic case of "what have you done for me lately"

Garrison seems like Brian Burke signing (and I used to like Burke until his exploits in TO)....

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04-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #142
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Is it Wednesday yet?

FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Alexander Semin ($5.750m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($2.000m)
Jay Beagle ($1.000m) / Mathieu Perreault ($2.000m) / Cody Eakin ($0.638m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Barret Jackman ($5.000m) / Sami Salo ($2.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.750m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
BUYOUTS
Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,907,349; BONUSES: $320,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $392,651

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04-24-2012, 11:45 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
And as already noted, I'm not talking about backdoor plays. Smart transition passes turn into assists everywhere in the league, no matter who is coaching.
i am not going to change your mind and shouldnt try. that said, the smart transition pass is not in the caps playbook anymore. hunter doesnt want that stuff done. the backstrom home run pass to laich for the tying goal in game 3? must have given dale a heart attack.

caps defensemen dont pass the puck out of their own zone anymore.

is it wednesday yet? you sound like you are gleefully waiting for the caps to lose so you can party and start dancing on graves.

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04-24-2012, 11:49 AM
  #144
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I like Jackman, but no thanks at $5M.

I wouldn't pay that for a guy that's never hit 30 points in a season.

Green's about 5 times more likely to be worth $5M than Jackman is.

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04-24-2012, 11:56 AM
  #145
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Well for one I think we need to stick to the plan...build from within..restock the farm.

We have a very young team overall that is still growing. I fully expect big roles for Kuznetsov, Eakin and Orlov next year.

We need to make sure to have spots slotted for these young players.

I'm not opposed to a smart veteran add on but to make serious wholesale changes would be rash in my mind and most likely end up backfiring and sending us into a full blown rebuild.

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04-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Is it Wednesday yet?

FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Alexander Semin ($5.750m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Jordin Tootoo ($2.000m)
Jay Beagle ($1.000m) / Mathieu Perreault ($2.000m) / Cody Eakin ($0.638m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Barret Jackman ($5.000m) / Sami Salo ($2.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.750m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
BUYOUTS
Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,907,349; BONUSES: $320,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $392,651
My god, this roster would piss me off.

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04-24-2012, 11:58 AM
  #147
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Assuming a raise in the Cap to $68M:

FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Alexander Semin ($5.500m) / Olli Jokinen ($4.000m) / Evgeny Kuznetsov ($3.775m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Cody Eakin ($0.638m) / Jay Beagle ($0.750m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m)
DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Jason Garrison ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
BUYOUTS
Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,682,349; BONUSES: $320,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,317,651

Man, would it be nice in this scenario to spend that $2M difference between Ward and a reasonably paid 4th liner on Suter instead of Garrison.

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04-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #148
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Wiz...

You seriously made me lose my lunch. Jokinen..ugghhh...I do not like this player one bit!

Anyone who signs Garrison in the off season will likely regret it in a couple years. He just does not have the body of work to command the figures he is asking for.

I'd really rather see us hold our cash..give the young players bigger roles...make a smart short term cheap vet acquistion and then wait for a guy like Shea Weber to hit the market and go full retard.

We need a big intimidating presence if we truly want to upgrade our D. A Pronger/Chara/Weber is what we truly need. a #1 dman who inflicts the pain, can play 30 mins, can kill penalties and work the PP etc

Let's not waste our money on lesser players (Garrison) or players who don't fill that need nearly as well (Suter)

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04-24-2012, 12:06 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Assuming a raise in the Cap to $68M:

FORWARDS
Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m)
Alexander Semin ($5.500m) / Olli Jokinen ($4.000m) / Evgeny Kuznetsov ($3.775m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($2.350m)
Cody Eakin ($0.638m) / Jay Beagle ($0.750m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Matt Hendricks ($0.825m)
DEFENSEMEN
Karl Alzner ($1.285m) / John Carlson ($3.500m)
Jason Garrison ($4.750m) / Mike Green ($5.000m)
Roman Hamrlik ($3.500m) / Dmitry Orlov ($0.900m)
John Erskine ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m)
Braden Holtby ($0.638m)
BUYOUTS
Tyler Sloan ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $68,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,682,349; BONUSES: $320,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,317,651

Man, would it be nice in this scenario to spend that $2M difference between Ward and a reasonably paid 4th liner on Suter instead of Garrison.

Geez, NO!

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04-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #150
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These rosters I keep on seeing completely screw over the Caps the next few year when they have to re-sign Johansson, Holtby, Neuvirth, Orlov, and Beagle.

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