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Old
04-24-2012, 02:42 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
What makes Bard a chump?
The fact the he's been outspoken about not wanting to be in the bullpen when the team needs him there.

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04-24-2012, 02:57 PM
  #52
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Not so sure I agree w/ that. It could be true. But I think it's more the way guys are hitting, and what they're targeting when they hit. Everyone went Scott Stevens, basically.
This was exactly Felger's point. Scott Stevens used to be lauded for what he did. It was legal and encouraged.

Now if you do anything remotely close to what he did, you're out.

The Torres hit on Hossa for instance, was child-mild compared to what Stevens did on a regular basis.

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04-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
This was exactly Felger's point. Scott Stevens used to be lauded for what he did. It was legal and encouraged.

Now if you do anything remotely close to what he did, you're out.

The Torres hit on Hossa for instance, was child-mild compared to what Stevens did on a regular basis.
My memory could be fuzzy, but Stevens rarely left his feet and usualy had his elbow tucked in on most of his big hits.

I don't have access to youtube at work, but I'll look at his big hits when I get home.

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04-24-2012, 03:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
My memory could be fuzzy, but Stevens rarely left his feet and usualy had his elbow tucked in on most of his big hits.

I don't have access to youtube at work, but I'll look at his big hits when I get home.
Well, my memory's fuzzy too! LOL

But boy, he used to clean people's clocks.

Still, to Felger's point, I do believe that 15 years ago, you rarely got a concussion. You got your bell rung, sniffed the salts and finished the game.

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04-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
This was exactly Felger's point. Scott Stevens used to be lauded for what he did. It was legal and encouraged.

Now if you do anything remotely close to what he did, you're out.

The Torres hit on Hossa for instance, was child-mild compared to what Stevens did on a regular basis.
There are plenty of things people did that was "legal and encouraged" at one time or another, that are illegal or considered appalling today.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:14 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
Well, my memory's fuzzy too! LOL

But boy, he used to clean people's clocks.

Still, to Felger's point, I do believe that 15 years ago, you rarely got a concussion. You got your bell rung, sniffed the salts and finished the game.
I agree

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
There are plenty of things people did that was "legal and encouraged" at one time or another, that are illegal or considered appalling today.
That's the whole point. One guy thinks the NHL is headed in the wrong direction and the violence is getting worse, where the other guy says they're moving in the right direction by cleaning it up.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:33 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
Well, my memory's fuzzy too! LOL

But boy, he used to clean people's clocks.

Still, to Felger's point, I do believe that 15 years ago, you rarely got a concussion. You got your bell rung, sniffed the salts and finished the game.
Tell that to Paul Kariya and Eric Lindros. He pretty much ended both their careers with hits just like Cooke's and Torres.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:35 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
The fact the he's been outspoken about not wanting to be in the bullpen when the team needs him there.
The team doesn't need him there.

Felger's problem is that he actually thinks we're contenders this year.

THis team. Is contenders. This year.

We aren't. Just... no. Not happening. Maaaaybe we squeeze into the second wild card, but does that make us a contender? HECK no.

That being said the right move is to built forward for next year, and THAT involves letting Bard throw some innings this year.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
The team doesn't need him there.

Felger's problem is that he actually thinks we're contenders this year.

THis team. Is contenders. This year.

We aren't. Just... no. Not happening. Maaaaybe we squeeze into the second wild card, but does that make us a contender? HECK no.

That being said the right move is to built forward for next year, and THAT involves letting Bard throw some innings this year.
I haven't heard Felger say anything to the effect of him thinking they are contenders this year.

Moving Bard to the bullpen doesn't skyrocket this team to the top of the AL East. What is does is have the potential to stop the freaking bleeding. That's what the team needs right now, and why the team needs him there.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
My memory could be fuzzy, but Stevens rarely left his feet and usualy had his elbow tucked in on most of his big hits.

I don't have access to youtube at work, but I'll look at his big hits when I get home.
Most of Steven's hits would be considered predatory, from the blind side, and very late now. He was the king of hiding behind his defensive partner and then crushing guys when they never saw him coming. I used to love them, but looking them now makes me sick.







Just a few quick examples for you...

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Tell that to Paul Kariya and Eric Lindros. He pretty much ended both their careers with hits just like Cooke's and Torres.
So true, and both were immediately dignosed as concussions, IIRC.

Both were nasty, too.

The whole point was KPD claimed that hits like that are on the increase from 15 - 20 years ago, and the league is getting more violent, while Felger countered that things like that used to happen more often, and were less penalized and often not properly diagnosed.

Question: Was Stevens suspended for either of those hits?

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Tell that to Paul Kariya and Eric Lindros. He pretty much ended both their careers with hits just like Cooke's and Torres.
I watched the hit on Kariya the other day...Stevens doesn't explode into that hit...he almost slows down (if you can beleive it) elbow tucked in, feet stayed on the ice, and uses Kariya's speed against him, he kind of let Kariya skate into him (if that makes sense)...nothing like Cooke or Torres

I will aknowledge that the hit was a bit late.

Haven't really looked at the Lindros hit, so I won't analyze that one for now.

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04-24-2012, 03:42 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Most of Steven's hits would be considered predatory, from the blind side, and very late now. He was the king of hiding behind his defensive partner and then crushing guys when they never saw him coming. I used to love them, but looking them now makes me sick.







Just a few quick examples for you...
Was watching NHL network recently and they were running a promotion for up-coming games, etc. The clip was full of nasty hits, including the Bitz hit that he was recently suspended for. Not sure if others in the clip resulted in suspensions, but I did make note of that one.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:43 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
So true, and both were immediately dignosed as concussions, IIRC.

Both were nasty, too.

The whole point was KPD claimed that hits like that are on the increase from 15 - 20 years ago, and the league is getting more violent, while Felger countered that things like that used to happen more often, and were less penalized and often not properly diagnosed.

Question: Was Stevens suspended for either of those hits?
No he wasn't...The lindross hit happened in Game 7 of the 2000 East Final. Kariya hit happened in Game 6 of the SCF.

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04-24-2012, 03:44 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
I watched the hit on Kariya the other day...Stevens doesn't explode into that hit...he almost slows down (if you can beleive it) elbow tucked in, feet stayed on the ice, and uses Kariya's speed against him, he kind of let Kariya skate into him (if that makes sense)...nothing like Cooke or Torres

I will aknowledge that the hit was a bit late.

Haven't really looked at the Lindros hit, so I won't analyze that one for now.
A little late? More like 5 seconds after Kariya dished the puck. The point is, that so many people here vilify Cooke, but Steven's hits were pretty much on par with his. Eerily similar in style, eerily similar in ending players careers. The Lindros hit was all elbow to the head. The point is, he wasn't clean, they just didn't call them like they do now.

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04-24-2012, 03:44 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
I watched the hit on Kariya the other day...Stevens doesn't explode into that hit...he almost slows down (if you can beleive it) elbow tucked in, feet stayed on the ice, and uses Kariya's speed against him, he kind of let Kariya skate into him (if that makes sense)...nothing like Cooke or Torres

I will aknowledge that the hit was a bit late.

Haven't really looked at the Lindros hit, so I won't analyze that one for now.
While Lindros did skate with his head down, Stevens shoulder directly hits lindros in the head.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Most of Steven's hits would be considered predatory, from the blind side, and very late now. He was the king of hiding behind his defensive partner and then crushing guys when they never saw him coming. I used to love them, but looking them now makes me sick.







Just a few quick examples for you...
I'll look at these when I get home...stupid web filter

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04-24-2012, 03:46 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
I watched the hit on Kariya the other day...Stevens doesn't explode into that hit...he almost slows down (if you can beleive it) elbow tucked in, feet stayed on the ice, and uses Kariya's speed against him, he kind of let Kariya skate into him (if that makes sense)...nothing like Cooke or Torres

I will aknowledge that the hit was a bit late.

Haven't really looked at the Lindros hit, so I won't analyze that one for now.
That hit was VERY late!

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04-24-2012, 03:46 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
So true, and both were immediately dignosed as concussions, IIRC.

Both were nasty, too.

The whole point was KPD claimed that hits like that are on the increase from 15 - 20 years ago, and the league is getting more violent, while Felger countered that things like that used to happen more often, and were less penalized and often not properly diagnosed.

Question: Was Stevens suspended for either of those hits?
KPD is flat out wrong. The only differences between then and now are that they were considered great hits and now it's a penalty, and doctors/teams/players/fans are more aware of concussions.

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04-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
A little late? More like 5 seconds after Kariya dished the puck. The point is, that so many people here vilify Cooke, but Steven's hits were pretty much on par with his. Eerily similar in style, eerily similar in ending players careers. The Lindros hit was all elbow to the head. The point is, he wasn't clean, they just didn't call them like they do now.
More like 1 or 1.5 seconds (which is a long time in hockey), but point taken

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04-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #72
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While Lindros did skate with his head down, Stevens shoulder directly hits lindros in the head.
He follows through with his elbow actually because he was about to miss his head. Clear cut head shot either way. Clear cut blindside too.

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04-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #73
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Scott Stevens was such a badass. I can only imagine what would have been if the Bruins drafted him instead of Kluzak.

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04-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
A little late? More like 5 seconds after Kariya dished the puck. The point is, that so many people here vilify Cooke, but Steven's hits were pretty much on par with his. Eerily similar in style, eerily similar in ending players careers. The Lindros hit was all elbow to the head. The point is, he wasn't clean, they just didn't call them like they do now.
That was a major point as well as they didn't diagnose concussions as they do now.

Look at those clips. No stretchers. The players are helped to their feet and off the ice by other players in most of them.

The play wasn't even stopped in some of them, and prolly very few were called for penalties either.

*Edit: you beat me to it above!

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04-24-2012, 03:51 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bmf316nhl View Post
I'll look at these when I get home...stupid web filter
It's crazy because you can see in most of them, the player who gets hit is scrambled and out on their feet. I would guess a lot of misdiagnosed concussions. The irony is that this guy was celebrated as a huge hitter then by everyone (myself included) but watching these hits now makes my stomach turn. I see so much similarity between them and the hits of players like Cooke and Torres.

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