HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official Sports Radio Thread Part 7

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-24-2012, 02:53 PM
  #76
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 24,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
That was a major point as well as they didn't diagnose concussions as they do now.

Look at those clips. No stretchers. The players are helped to their feet and off the ice by other players in most of them.

The play wasn't even stopped in some of them, and prolly very few were called for penalties either.
Yup. In fact, I'd say the real change is the awareness of hits like this and the effects they can cause being more prevalent with today's teams/players/fans/media. Hits like Stevens' happened all the time 15 years ago. The players barely missed shifts after getting their bell rung.

LSCII is online now  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:03 PM
  #77
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
KPD is flat out wrong. The only differences between then and now are that they were considered great hits and now it's a penalty, and doctors/teams/players/fans are more aware of concussions.
Looking backward through rose colored glasses is not unusual. Everything was better in The Good Old Days.

Artemis is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #78
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 24,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Looking backward through rose colored glasses is not unusual. Everything was better in The Good Old Days.
Exactly. KPD has a very short memory for a guy who covered the Bruins. Ted Green had his head caved in during a stick fight back in the late 60's, yet the game is more violent today? I've been watching hockey for most of my life, but I can say I've never seen an actual "stick fight", FFS...

LSCII is online now  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:11 PM
  #79
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
I haven't heard Felger say anything to the effect of him thinking they are contenders this year.
He doesn't have to. It dominates his thinking because it's what he's used to. Boston isn't used to thinking of the greater good beyond this one year.

If we think of JUST this season, moving Bard to the bullpen isn't a stupid move. If he actually does what fans have the desperate, unfounded, unsubstantiated, unproven, unverified, forlorn hope that he could theoretically do, and become an elite closer, it would actually work out.

But since Daniel Bard is not Papelbon, putting him in the closer's role is just as much of a crapshoot, or nearly as much, as anything else. There's a reason Bard requested to start, and it's not because he was anxious to be the man, take the ball in the 9th and handle the pressure of finishing other people's games. In a role where mindset is so important, I think it's outright NAIVE to just ASSUME that he'll be an elite closer. Those don't just happen.

Quote:
Moving Bard to the bullpen doesn't skyrocket this team to the top of the AL East. What is does is have the potential to stop the freaking bleeding. That's what the team needs right now, and why the team needs him there.
Then it's a reactionary move and those are the worst kind.

You have other options. Use them. This kid can throw 100 pitches and still bring a high 90's fastball. He can start, and the fact that he can start immediately gives him the best pure stuff of any Red Sox starter. You might as well ask Buchholz to close games for you.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:13 PM
  #80
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
He doesn't have to. It dominates his thinking because it's what he's used to. Boston isn't used to thinking of the greater good beyond this one year.

If we think of JUST this season, moving Bard to the bullpen isn't a stupid move. If he actually does what fans have the desperate, unfounded, unsubstantiated, unproven, unverified, forlorn hope that he could theoretically do, and become an elite closer, it would actually work out.

But since Daniel Bard is not Papelbon, putting him in the closer's role is just as much of a crapshoot, or nearly as much, as anything else. There's a reason Bard requested to start, and it's not because he was anxious to be the man, take the ball in the 9th and handle the pressure of finishing other people's games. In a role where mindset is so important, I think it's outright NAIVE to just ASSUME that he'll be an elite closer. Those don't just happen.



Then it's a reactionary move and those are the worst kind.

You have other options. Use them. This kid can throw 100 pitches and still bring a high 90's fastball. He can start, and the fact that he can start immediately gives him the best pure stuff of any Red Sox starter. You might as well ask Buchholz to close games for you.
Honest question, do you listen to Felger & Mazz on a regular basis?

Kate08 is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:17 PM
  #81
Coach C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
Unless Bard could help the Bruins PowerPlay, I couldn't care less if he's in the bullpen, SR, or playing center field

In more important news...Neely coming up on 98.5.

Coach C is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:23 PM
  #82
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post
That was a major point as well as they didn't diagnose concussions as they do now.

Look at those clips. No stretchers. The players are helped to their feet and off the ice by other players in most of them.

The play wasn't even stopped in some of them, and prolly very few were called for penalties either.

*Edit: you beat me to it above!
In the case of Lindros its one hit I don't mind watching, Lindros delivered some brutal cheapshots
himself. Remember watching that game with my son.

doakacola* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:24 PM
  #83
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
Honest question, do you listen to Felger & Mazz on a regular basis?
Yes, and he's really ticking me off right now. Sorry that you got the brunt of it.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:26 PM
  #84
patty59
***************
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,683
vCash: 500
Hockey didn't get more violent, people just got softer. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either.

patty59 is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:26 PM
  #85
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
Yes, and he's really ticking me off right now. Sorry that you got the brunt of it.
No worries. I don't get that sense from him, which is why I asked.

As I said in the Red Sox thread, I don't really blame Bard for being pissy about it. But I also don't blame people who call him out for his comments. This is one situation where I can aboslutely see both sides of the coin.

Kate08 is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:28 PM
  #86
Coach C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Hockey didn't get more violent, people just got softer. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either.
I agree...though I do suspect the equipment these players wear are making the game more dangerous. I say that based simply on what I've heard from the media and what I've seen on TV.

I really can't say for sure, because I wear my same koho elbow pads that I had in the 8th grade....so not to familiar with the newer stuff.

Coach C is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:29 PM
  #87
Coach C
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
and right on queue...Neely talking about how the equipment is different now.

He said he would rather have a guy with a separated shoulder from throwing a hit...then from a concussion because the equipment is like armor.

Coach C is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:31 PM
  #88
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Hockey didn't get more violent, people just got softer. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either.
I dunno if "softer" is the right word. We think about injuries more when they happen now.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #89
patty59
***************
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I dunno if "softer" is the right word. We think about injuries more when they happen now.
It's not just the injuries. It seems that every hit is now looked at as dirty and people don't like fighting.

patty59 is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:39 PM
  #90
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
It's not just the injuries. It seems that every hit is now looked at as dirty and people don't like fighting.
Whenever there's a big hit, clean or not, the most frequent discussion surrounding it is whether or not it's suspension-worthy. Not if it was situationally a good play, not the affect it had on the game, not even about if the guy on the receiving end is ok. All of the talk is centered around clean/dirty, suspend/not suspend, how many games, etc.

That's as big of an indicator as I can think of that the culture has shifted to the point of obsession with suspensions.

Kate08 is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:40 PM
  #91
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 24,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
It's not just the injuries. It seems that every hit is now looked at as dirty and people don't like fighting.
Even fighting itself has changed. Now it's all polite and two people typically square off and agree to fight, with most tussles involving defense first and punches second, and both parties stopping if one goes down. Back in the 70s, most fights started via sucker punch from someone and then continued until the linesmen actually broke it up.

LSCII is online now  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:45 PM
  #92
Pie O My
Registered User
 
Pie O My's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shawmut Center
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Even fighting itself has changed. Now it's all polite and two people typically square off and agree to fight, with most tussles involving defense first and punches second, and both parties stopping if one goes down. Back in the 70s, most fights started via sucker punch from someone and then continued until the linesmen actually broke it up.
and what's with the stupid little jibbity jabs with your left hand while clenched around the other guys collar? Oh how i long for the "old" days of rock em sock em PJ Stock.

Pie O My is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:48 PM
  #93
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 24,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pie O My View Post
and what's with the stupid little jibbity jabs with your left hand while clenched around the other guys collar? Oh how i long for the "old" days of rock em sock em PJ Stock.
I know. If your main goal in a fight is to not get hit, maybe you should consider not fighting as a more viable option? Otherwise, get in there and throw some shots...

LSCII is online now  
Old
04-24-2012, 03:53 PM
  #94
Alicat
Charge!
 
Alicat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BOSTON
Country: United States
Posts: 20,795
vCash: 500
Just tuning in now. I agree w/Felger about Bard.

Alicat is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 04:10 PM
  #95
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
Just tuning in now. I agree w/Felger about Bard.
I don't. I can't. Considering how much else we write passes for on this baseball team, singling out Bard is hypocritical.

Besides, and this is the point they're all whistling past, as of this moment Daniel Bard is more proven as a starter than he is as a closer.

Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 04:13 PM
  #96
Artemis
Took the red pill
 
Artemis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mount Olympus
Country: United States
Posts: 18,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Hockey didn't get more violent, people just got softer. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way either.
I don't think that's true at all. Look at the average hockey player in, say, the 1960s compared to today. Back in the day, the majority of them looked like your next-door neighbor grilling up some burgers and chugging a few cold ones. Today, they look like this:



People know more today - they know what a difference proper nutrition makes, they know how bad smoking is, and they understand the impact injuries have on their bodies, including the long-term affects of concussions.

Equipment certainly has had a hand in increasing injuries, but the growth and development of the human body has also made a difference. Today, an "average" NHL player is more than six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds. Decades ago, that sort of player was looked upon as Chara is today.

There is no one simple answer - it's a combination of many factors. People who are looking for simple answers are going to be disappointed.

Artemis is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 04:52 PM
  #97
Alicat
Charge!
 
Alicat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: BOSTON
Country: United States
Posts: 20,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I don't. I can't. Considering how much else we write passes for on this baseball team, singling out Bard is hypocritical.

Besides, and this is the point they're all whistling past, as of this moment Daniel Bard is more proven as a starter than he is as a closer.
I'm sorry but when you are on a team you put your ego aside and do what's best for it.

In this case, the bullpen is a disaster and they need him to be the glue that keeps it together.

They trust him and they know he's a good leader out there.

For him to sulk around about it is absurd. Put your big boy pants on and suck it up.

Felger is on the money here.

__________________
"I choose to focus on the things I CAN do and am passionate about." - Sam Berns

I am Boston Strong
6.15.11
4.15.13

Alicat is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 05:31 PM
  #98
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
But what's really best for the team?

The moment Bard became a starter, he had the best stuff of all our starters. Would you trade a young starter with that kind of pure stuff for an above average setup man? Because that's what you're asking here, and my answer is, heck no. The correct solution is to find another option at closer. The only reason we're here is the FO's ineptitude at doing so.

That's not Bard's fault and he should not be pilloried for calling attention to that. Or for holding the FO to the promises it made to him.

Felger is dead wrong. The front office is the source of the problem here, both for failing to adequately replace Bard, and for trying to get around their promises to him.

Unless you think the MANAGEMENT has no obligation whatsoever to the PLAYERS? Because that's what you're really saying if you say that Bard's the only one with any obligations here.


Last edited by Dojji*: 04-24-2012 at 05:39 PM.
Dojji* is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 05:51 PM
  #99
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,437
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
I certainly don't agree with Dupont's premise- but a few comments about what is going on.

This is all about exposure. We didn't have access to this stuff years ago. You can't pick your nose these days without someone getting it on film.

You think if we had all this stuff in 1967 and some soldier put up a video of innocent woman and children being slaughtered the war wouldn't have ended by the next day. People would be outraged and they would put so much pressure on their elected officials results would happen fast.

As for resolvement of the problems- its very fundamental and mirrors just about any situation where there is a correction needed. First off policing themselves sounds good and whatever you get out of that theory is fine, however, you just have to have some major reprecussions. They have been way to soft- and one game, three games, five games- all have minimal effect....ten games and 25 games gets ones attention.

But back to the rail against the violence by KDP. Certainly there is a problem but his campaign and railing is suprising to me. I really don't get the scope he has undertaken and the more I read him the more I think maybe its time to let go of the game he loves or loved. It has its warts but warts don't kill atleast I don't think they do.

DKH is offline  
Old
04-24-2012, 05:52 PM
  #100
Kate08
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kate08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Medford MA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,950
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
But what's really best for the team?

The moment Bard became a starter, he had the best stuff of all our starters. Would you trade a young starter with that kind of pure stuff for an above average setup man? Because that's what you're asking here, and my answer is, heck no. The correct solution is to find another option at closer. The only reason we're here is the FO's ineptitude at doing so.

That's not Bard's fault and he should not be pilloried for calling attention to that. Or for holding the FO to the promises it made to him.

Felger is dead wrong. The front office is the source of the problem here, both for failing to adequately replace Bard, and for trying to get around their promises to him.

Unless you think the MANAGEMENT has no obligation whatsoever to the PLAYERS? Because that's what you're really saying if you say that Bard's the only one with any obligations here.
Short of paying them as outlined in their contract, and perhaps not putting them in physical danger? No. The management has no obligation whatsoever to the players.

Kate08 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.