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Andrew Knoll's Top 20 Prospects Update 4/24/2012

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04-24-2012, 11:00 AM
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Change in Kings top-20 a reflection of young NHL roster

While the Kings are still among the youngest rosters at the NHL level, a shift in their organizational outlook has caused their prospect system to go from top-ranked to also-ran in short order.

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04-24-2012, 11:58 AM
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Andrew Knoll's Top 20 Prospects Update 4/24/2012

Great article Andrew!

Quote:
While the Kings are still among the youngest rosters at the NHL level, a shift in their organizational outlook has caused their prospect system to go from top-ranked to also-ran in short order. Still, the Kings have a strong identity throughout their organization and as many talented players as most NHL organizations, headed by some of players who have already spent some quality time at the top level.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ng_nhl_roster/

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04-24-2012, 12:58 PM
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Kings have great prospect depth when Czarnik and Gravel cannot even crack the top 20

Where's Holloway?!? He should be #6, IMO.

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04-24-2012, 01:01 PM
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Hickey still erks me.

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04-24-2012, 01:05 PM
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A couple of things.....

1) Holloway isn't on our list of prospects, but Meckler is. If one is, they both (theoretically) should be, as they were both drafted in 2006.

2) Zatkoff is last on our goalie depth chart. While this might have been the case last year, Zatkoff largely out-played Jones this year.

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04-24-2012, 01:40 PM
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While I don't agree with all of the rankings, just like I'm sure most others won't either since we all have our own individual views on players, I will commend you for having the gonads to dramatically shift around where players are on the rankings. A bunch took big jumps up or down and you clearly didn't rank anyone based on just sheer popularity in the fanbase. Kudos to you for that.

And kudos for not calling Hickey a bust either

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04-24-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Kings have great prospect depth when Czarnik and Gravel cannot even crack the top 20

Where's Holloway?!? He should be #6, IMO.
Gravel should be in IMO, and about middle of the pack too. He's never going to be a top end guy, but he could be a Rob Scuderi/Willie Mitchell type (depending on the level of physicality he brings).

Holloway I think should also be on, simply because of the numbers he's produced. If he was aplayer who hadn't come to NA yet, as opposed to a NA player who went to Europe, he'd be on the list.

Zatkoff likely should be off IMO. I like him, but I don't think he has an NHL future personally and in all likelihood will be out of the organization as a UFA after this season. I'm not sure who else I'd drop from the list right now, maybe Andreoff.

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04-24-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Zatkoff likely should be off IMO. I like him, but I don't think he has an NHL future personally and in all likelihood will be out of the organization as a UFA after this season. I'm not sure who else I'd drop from the list right now, maybe Andreoff.
WHY in the WORLD would you do that ? IF Bernier is potentially our best trade bait to bring in some Offense or top level draft picks ... then we will need a competent backup ... and just like the Quick / Bernier situation ... I prefer to let Zatkoff and Jones show us which one really belongs ... and Zatkoff had a strong 2010 and 2012, Jones had a strong 2011 ... it's still undecided who will be in future plans IMO. And Gibson is YEARS away ... and will need time in the AHL too.

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04-24-2012, 02:51 PM
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The Kings prospect pool was due to take a hit. Moved a lot of youth and draft picks while others have kind of fizzled out.

Lewis and Bernier are NHL players and Lewis has played pretty well in these playoffs but still projects as a 3rd line PK type guy. Bernier we will probably never know. Not his fault he is stuck behind the best goalie in the league.

Hickey and Teubert were flops. In Hickey's case it may just be a numbers thing and he'll succeed elsewhere. There was probably only one spot available for him or Voynov and Slava has clearly grabbed it. Teubert, well that was a disaster from the get go.

Schenn was traded in the Richards deal so that is another first round pick gone, but probably a trade the Kings had to make. Even if MR had an awful year he still makes us a more complete team.

Forbort, the jury is still out. Did play much better in the second half of the season. Has to establish himself for a full year at the NCAA level.

First round picks traded in 2011 and either 2012 or 2013 are also going to hurt the prospect pool, although I expect the Kings to move Bernier and someone like Hickey to a team like TB, Chicago or NJ who could use someone like Bernier badly. The Kings NHL roster is pretty well set so I expect the Kings to be looking for youth in any of those deals, either a nice prospect or pick to help boost a sagging prospect pool.

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04-24-2012, 03:03 PM
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....and Lewis has played pretty well in these playoffs ....

!?! Dude, Lewis KILLED Vancouver!

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04-24-2012, 03:15 PM
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Gravel should be in IMO, and about middle of the pack too. He's never going to be a top end guy, but he could be a Rob Scuderi/Willie Mitchell type (depending on the level of physicality he brings).
Absolutely agree here. He gets zero attention because he plays for St. Cloud and isn't a flashy guy but to me, he's the guy I see replacing Scuds down the road while Muzzin replaces Mitchell.

Muzzin really is reminding me of Mitchell. Both are defensive left shooting dmen and both have very good shots and can work the PP but not really be known as offensive guys. I think Muzzin should play next year in the AHL, we let Scuds walk, and bring Muzzin up. He already has NHL experience and the extra year should really help solidify him as a prospect.

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04-24-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
WHY in the WORLD would you do that ? IF Bernier is potentially our best trade bait to bring in some Offense or top level draft picks ... then we will need a competent backup ... and just like the Quick / Bernier situation ... I prefer to let Zatkoff and Jones show us which one really belongs ... and Zatkoff had a strong 2010 and 2012, Jones had a strong 2011 ... it's still undecided who will be in future plans IMO. And Gibson is YEARS away ... and will need time in the AHL too.
I'm not doing anything. Zatkoff IS a UFA after this season. Pencil him in as a possibility all you want and shake your head at me all you want, until we have his name on a contract he doesn't really factor into the equation for a backup possibility. And, IMO, Zatkoff would be cutting himself short to sign in LA before testing the market as a UFA, especially since it's doubtful DL deals Bernier before Quick is extended. And we all know Quick can't be extended until July 1st at the earliest.

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I expect the Kings to move Bernier and someone like Hickey to a team like TB, Chicago or NJ who could use someone like Bernier badly. The Kings NHL roster is pretty well set so I expect the Kings to be looking for youth in any of those deals, either a nice prospect or pick to help boost a sagging prospect pool.
I'd be shocked if LA kept Bernier in conference, so I'd rule out Chicago. I think NJ is a very nice option though, unless Wedgewood/Kinkaid are ready sooner rather than later.

Personally, I think T-Bay gets Luongo. I can see some sort of Hedman/Luongo deal.

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!?! Dude, Lewis KILLED Vancouver!
Well, according to my avatar, Lewis = Gretzky on paper

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04-24-2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I'm not doing anything. Zatkoff IS a UFA after this season. Pencil him in as a possibility all you want and shake your head at me all you want, until we have his name on a contract he doesn't really factor into the equation for a backup possibility. And, IMO, Zatkoff would be cutting himself short to sign in LA before testing the market as a UFA, especially since it's doubtful DL deals Bernier before Quick is extended. And we all know Quick can't be extended until July 1st at the earliest.
Zatkoff will be a RFA ... no ? so I think it would be foolish to let him walk for nothing, and not even tender him a Qualifying Offer.

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04-24-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
Zatkoff will be a RFA ... no ? so I think it would be foolish to let him walk for nothing, and not even tender him a Qualifying Offer.
I think we might just let him walk. It's either him or Berube and I think Berube has more upside.

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04-24-2012, 04:48 PM
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A couple of things.....

1) Holloway isn't on our list of prospects, but Meckler is. If one is, they both (theoretically) should be, as they were both drafted in 2006.

2) Zatkoff is last on our goalie depth chart. While this might have been the case last year, Zatkoff largely out-played Jones this year.
This, and the lack of love for Gravel (arguably better than Forbort at the WJCs) and Campbell (has come a long LONG way from when he was signed) are my only real gripes. I think you if you switch Zatkoff and Gibson (way too big a project in my eyes still) and replace Kitsyn with one of Holloway, Campbell, Gravel you'd my exact list.

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04-24-2012, 07:36 PM
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I try to watch as many Monarchs games as I'm able to and I keep track of the others by reading as much as I can. Here is the way I'd rank the players as of today:
1. Slava Voynov, D
2. Tyler Toffoli, RW
3. Linden Vey, RW
4. Dwight King, LW
5. Jordan Nolan, C
6. Andrei Loktionov, C
7. Derek Forbort, D
8. Jake Muzzin, D
9. Christopher Gibson, G
10. Nick Shore, C
11. Martin Jones, G
12. Andy Andreoff, C
13. Nicolas Deslauriers, D
14. Michael Mersch, LW
15. Kevin Gravel, D
16. Jordan Weal, C
17. Michael Schumacher, LW
18. Maxim Kitsyn, LW
19. Thomas Hickey, D
20. Brandon Kozun, RW

We should just forget about Thomas Hickey, folks. It's not happening. At best, he's a Josh Gorges-type player but he is never going to get even to that size. Also, Bud Holloway isn't included because... well, he's not coming back to the US until he's a UFA. Also, I know this was beaten to death a while ago but Dean should have signed Radko Gudas.

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04-24-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizou View Post
I try to watch as many Monarchs games as I'm able to and I keep track of the others by reading as much as I can. Here is the way I'd rank the players as of today:
1. Slava Voynov, D
2. Tyler Toffoli, RW
3. Linden Vey, RW
4. Dwight King, LW
5. Jordan Nolan, C
6. Andrei Loktionov, C
7. Derek Forbort, D
8. Jake Muzzin, D
9. Christopher Gibson, G
10. Nick Shore, C
11. Martin Jones, G
12. Andy Andreoff, C
13. Nicolas Deslauriers, D
14. Michael Mersch, LW
15. Kevin Gravel, D
16. Jordan Weal, C
17. Michael Schumacher, LW
18. Maxim Kitsyn, LW
19. Thomas Hickey, D
20. Brandon Kozun, RW

We should just forget about Thomas Hickey, folks. It's not happening. At best, he's a Josh Gorges-type player but he is never going to get even to that size. Also, Bud Holloway isn't included because... well, he's not coming back to the US until he's a UFA. Also, I know this was beaten to death a while ago but Dean should have signed Radko Gudas.


I to am a Monarchs Season Ticket Holder. Do not agree with this list AT ALL.


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04-24-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
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Also, I know this was beaten to death a while ago but Dean should have signed Radko Gudas.
Gudas wasn't eligible to be signed out of camp like Jones was.
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Upon further review, it does not appear that Gudas is eligible to be signed since he played in Europe last year and is under age 22.
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Originally Posted by CBA Article 10.1(d)
(d) Draft Related Unrestricted Free Agents.
(i) Any Player not eligible for claim in any future Entry Draft pursuant to this Agreement and not on a Club's Reserve List shall be an Unrestricted Free Agent. Further, any Player eligible for claim in the Entry Draft, but who was unclaimed, shall be an Unrestricted Free Agent subject to the provisions of Section 8.9(b).
(ii) Each Player referred to in subsection (d)(i) above shall, during the period of his Free Agency in accordance with Section 8.9(b), if applicable, be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an SPC with such Player, without penalty or restriction subject to the provisions of Article 9 of this Agreement, if applicable, and without being subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation or any other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.
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No Player shall be eligible for play in the League unless he:
(a) had been claimed in the last Entry Draft, or was ineligible for claim under Section 8.4; or
(b) had been eligible for claim in the last Entry Draft, but was unclaimed, and:
(i) had played hockey in North America the prior season and was age 20 or older at the time of the last Entry Draft, and signed an SPC which was signed and registered with the League between the conclusion of the Entry Draft and commencement of the next NHL Season.
(ii) had played hockey in North America the prior season and was under age 20 at the time of the last Entry Draft, and signed an SPC which was signed and registered with the League between the conclusion of the Entry Draft and commencement of the Major Juniors season (except that if such Player had signed an NHL tryout form, which was signed and registered with the League during the aforesaid time period, then the deadline for signing and registering with the League an SPC with such try-out Club shall be the commencement of the NHL Season).
(iii) had played hockey outside of North America in the prior season and was age 22 or older at the time of the last Entry Draft and signed an SPC which was signed and registered with the League between the conclusion of the Entry Draft and the commencement of the next NHL Season.
(iv) The words "eligible for claim in the last Entry Draft" in subparagraph (b) above mean "eligible for claim in all rounds of the last Entry Draft." The words "the prior season" in subparagraph (i), (ii) and (iii) above mean "a full season prior to the last Entry Draft."

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04-24-2012, 08:06 PM
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Did Hickey regress this season? He was neck-and-neck with VV in camp this year. Doesn't surprise me that he made the AHL all star game with how he looked in the preseason. I thought he was head and shoulders above Muzzin, both defensively and offensively, and was just as physical.

I thought Kozy looked great in camp as well, but his size is a big detriment. We'll see if he can overcome it.

Great work on this list. Drafting prospects is a crapshoot most of the time, ranking them is extremely tough. Kudos.

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04-24-2012, 08:58 PM
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Boy, Kozun at 20 huh?

I to am a Monarchs Season Ticket Holder. Do not agree with this list AT ALL.
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I thought Kozy looked great in camp as well, but his size is a big detriment. We'll see if he can overcome it.
This is is precisely the reason I have Kozun at 20. Kozun and Hickey are both skilled players, no doubt. But their size or lackthereof is a huge issue and the only reason to have Kozun at 20 and Hickey one spot before him. And Hickey was an All-Star! I think Kozun played great for Manchester in his second year with the club. Just as I thought Azevedo had a great year with the club. But like Azevedo, I think Kozun will join him off the Top 20 in due time because I just don't think Kozun will ever gain the size that will allow him to make the NHL full-time. Hell, I even have reservations Loktionov ever will.

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04-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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Zatkoff will be a RFA ... no ? so I think it would be foolish to let him walk for nothing, and not even tender him a Qualifying Offer.
Zatkoff will be a Class VI UFA after the season (25 years of age, under 30 NHL games played). It's the same situation that Bud Holloway will be facing next season (though as a forward, Bud has to play fewer than 80 games by the age of 25) if he doesn't play a full season as a King.

Zatkoff will be a UFA this off-season and I'd be VERY surprised if he resigned with us without at least testing the market. Unless Bernier is dealt in the off-season -which we know will likely only happen if Quick is resigned- Zatkoff is guaranteed to be in the AHL next year.

Personally, I expect DL to let Zatkoff walk and I doubt very much he's at all in our future plans.

Quote:
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Did Hickey regress this season? He was neck-and-neck with VV in camp this year. Doesn't surprise me that he made the AHL all star game with how he looked in the preseason. I thought he was head and shoulders above Muzzin, both defensively and offensively, and was just as physical.
Hickey didn't regress. If Hickey was a UFA signee and not 4th overall, he'd be just as highly viewed as Muzzin. I get it that Hickey should have higher expectations, but he had a solid season in Manchester and is NHL ready. He has two flaws: A) He's not 4th overall worthy, and B) he's stuck behind a heck of a solid top six unit in LA.

Hickey will be an NHL D-man (assuming no major injuries/setbacks) but not a top end one.

I see Darryl Sydor in him.

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04-24-2012, 09:57 PM
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Also, Bud Holloway isn't included because... well, he's not coming back to the US until he's a UFA. Also, I know this was beaten to death a while ago but Dean should have signed Radko Gudas.
Is this just speculation? Cause Ive heard the opposite about Bud from other posters. Obviously anything that does not have an official link needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

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04-24-2012, 10:03 PM
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I think we might just let him walk. It's either him or Berube and I think Berube has more upside.
You are aware that Berube wasn't even the best goalie on the Reign this past season right? Berube may have upside but as of right now he's struggling to even maintain a starting job in the ECHL and isn't ready for even a backup role in the AHL yet. Then there's the issue of Jones still being unable to fully steal the starter role away from Zatkoff this year and prove he can be "the guy" in Manchester. Zatkoff may be resigned just in case because the Kings really don't have many other options other than signing a vet or another young UFA to backup Jones...

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04-24-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zizou View Post
I try to watch as many Monarchs games as I'm able to and I keep track of the others by reading as much as I can. Here is the way I'd rank the players as of today:
1. Slava Voynov, D
2. Tyler Toffoli, RW
3. Linden Vey, RW
4. Dwight King, LW
5. Jordan Nolan, C
6. Andrei Loktionov, C
7. Derek Forbort, D
8. Jake Muzzin, D
9. Christopher Gibson, G
10. Nick Shore, C
11. Martin Jones, G
12. Andy Andreoff, C
13. Nicolas Deslauriers, D
14. Michael Mersch, LW
15. Kevin Gravel, D
16. Jordan Weal, C
17. Michael Schumacher, LW
18. Maxim Kitsyn, LW
19. Thomas Hickey, D
20. Brandon Kozun, RW

We should just forget about Thomas Hickey, folks. It's not happening. At best, he's a Josh Gorges-type player but he is never going to get even to that size. Also, Bud Holloway isn't included because... well, he's not coming back to the US until he's a UFA. Also, I know this was beaten to death a while ago but Dean should have signed Radko Gudas.
This list is such a mess. Vey, King, and Nolan ahead of Loktionov? Just no.
Gibson higher than Jones? Have you seen Gibson play at all?
Deslauriers above Hickey? Did you miss Hickey playing in Manch instead of N.D. when he was a healthy scratch for a chunk of the season?

That said I do agree that if possible the Kings should sign Gudas. Loved that kids game in juniors and was hoping the Kings would draft him, but I don't remember anyone round here mentioning Dean should sign him.

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04-24-2012, 10:30 PM
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My top 20:

1. Voynov
2. Toffoli
3. Loktionov
4. King
5. Forbort
6. Vey
7. Nolan
8. Jones
9. Muzzin
10. Gibson
11. Shore
12. Hickey
13. Andreoff
14. Kozun
15. Czarnik
16. Weal
17. Mullen
18. Azevedo
19. Zatkoff
20. Deslauriers

HM: Mersch, Schumacher, Gravel

edit: I feel like Mullen is severely underrated. Even though he's 25, he's been, by far, the best defensemen for the Monarchs this season. One of the most reliable guys on the team.


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