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I am reading between the lines and want to think Shero said Malkin is available...

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:38 AM
  #76
Flat Stanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
I'll give credit where credit is due. Malkin showed a lot during the last offseason. But, that doesn't negate the fact that he still has a lot of question marks around him regarding his work ethic and passion for the game. That doesn't change because you trained hard in one offseason.

I never said he was overrated. I said his value is overrated. People don't seem to understand how things work in a cap system. Penguins would want a massive return, and giving what it would take while simultaneously taking on his massive cap would force teams into a very difficult situation. Wherein they would be better off simply not acquiring him.

Which is all I was saying. I am not interested in him at all from a Van perspective, and for this reason alone. The work ethic/passion concerns only serve as a risk variable in the equation, making it even easier to pass on the guy.
I agree, and sorry I didn't read your post well enough, I thought you said Malkin was overrated, I didn't see value until I double checked.

Yeah I know what you mean, Pens don't need or want to trade him and if they do, they would want massive overpayment that could hurt the team trying to acquire him like you said.

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04-25-2012, 08:38 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
I'll give credit where credit is due. Malkin showed a lot during the last offseason. But, that doesn't negate the fact that he still has a lot of question marks around him regarding his work ethic and passion for the game. That doesn't change because you trained hard in one offseason.

I never said he was overrated. I said his value is overrated. People don't seem to understand how things work in a cap system. Penguins would want a massive return, and giving what it would take while simultaneously taking on his massive cap would force teams into a very difficult situation. Wherein they would be better off simply not acquiring him.

Which is all I was saying. I am not interested in him at all from a Van perspective, and for this reason alone. The work ethic/passion concerns only serve as a risk variable in the equation, making it even easier to pass on the guy.

Quite frankly I'm ashamed of fellow Van fans who offer Kesler + Edler + multiple 1st rounders for him. It is embarrassing.

Yes usually those guys who are one of the best players in recent memory are given away for peanuts

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04-25-2012, 08:39 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
I'll give credit where credit is due. Malkin showed a lot during the last offseason. But, that doesn't negate the fact that he still has a lot of question marks around him regarding his work ethic and passion for the game. That doesn't change because you trained hard in one offseason.
You are out to lunch, and I don't think you're coming back

Quote:
Originally Posted by heathfilms View Post
Max Patches
2012 1st Rounder
2013 1st Rounder
jarred tinordi

you can't say that is not fair value you guys get 4 1st rounder for malkin
I understand why the Habs wouldn't want to give more but that's not fair value. The Pens won't be looking for 3 question marks out of 4 pieces.

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04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
  #79
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Don't see Geno being moved. So that leaves staal

Marc Staal for Jordan Staal?

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Kreider-Staal-Callahan
Dubinsky-Stepan-Zuccerelo
Rupp-Boyle-Prust


Then trade Artie some where for a defensemen

Fyi marc staal is playing like his old self

Ok I got to stop dreaming.

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04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
  #80
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Why can't they just look to move Crosby to the wing? No way would I move Malkin if I were Pittsburgh considering Crosby is always a strong breeze away from sitting out 6 months.

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04-25-2012, 08:42 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
You are out to lunch, and I don't think you're coming back .
Except for the fact that you're completely wrong, and even Penguins fans know that coaching staff and management had discussions with Malkin about his effort level and training. They asked him to improve his training during the offseason. Which he did.

Even Penguins fans admit there was work ethic issues in the past. They will say it isn't an issue anymore, but still, the point is a valid concern for anyone giving up an arm and a leg while also taking on that cap hit.

Sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A surprise coming from a poster on this site, I know.

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04-25-2012, 08:43 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
It sure is when compared to a 45 pt forward and a additional a 1 pt forward plus two draft picks.
Okposo, Niederreiter and 2 picks is probably one of the worst offers i have ever seen on this board for Malkin.
Well you must not have seen many Malkin proposals then. Okposo, Nino, Murray/Galchenyuk/Forsberg, and a potential lottery pick in MacKinnon's draft? You are being foolish if you think there would be many packages better than that.

Nino is still a top-20 prospect, regardless of how he played last year. To think of him as nothing more than a "1 pt forward" is ridiculous. The kid was 19 last year playing 4th line minutes in the NHL. Had he been in Portland the whole year he'd be considered a top-10 prospect still... I'd call that a pretty solid trade chip.

Regardless, the Pens would never trade Malkin within the division, and the Isles would probably never want to part with that many assets.

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04-25-2012, 08:45 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderson55 View Post
Yes usually those guys who are one of the best players in recent memory are given away for peanuts
Minimalist didn't say that, just saying as a Vancouver fan, he doesn't want Malkin and would rather keep the players they have and he's disappointed the Canuck fans are willing to trade key players from their team for him.

Malkin is worth what they're offering, I just think some would rather keep their good players and 1st round picks rather than trade them for Malkin.

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04-25-2012, 08:46 AM
  #84
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Staal is on the outs. Malkin will be a Penguin for life unless they decide to blow it up and rebuild. Even then I think they're hard-pressed to trade him.

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04-25-2012, 08:49 AM
  #85
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Hmm interesting. I don't think he would trade Malkin unless Staal was signed longterm though, because Staal is a UFA a year from now. But, if they did trade Malkin, they would still have

-Arguably the best centre in the world with Crosby
-One of the top two-way centres in the world with Staal
-Top line winger with Neal
-Hopefully a legit #1 D out of the Malkin deal + a solid top 6 winger + prospect

It would round out their roster a bit better. But then again, if Crosby got injured, Staal isn't offensively gifted like Malkin and couldn't quite carry the team on his back the same way. So Staal might be the one that's available. He's the closest to UFA status, he's the lesser of the three centres, and he could still bring in a top 6 winger + top 4 D.

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04-25-2012, 09:01 AM
  #86
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I'd like to see Martin in on the Malkin trade (assuming there is one, which I still find dubious). I feel like that's our best shot at getting rid of him.

Malkin and Martin for

Top 6 winger with solid net front play
Top pairing D-man
Strong prospect (maybe not an elite one, but well above average)
Whatever additional odds and ends the team needs to dump on Pit in order to take the massive cap hit they're about to receive
Draft picks to balance as needed based on the values of the above offered

That said, I'd really like to hold onto Malkin and just move one of the 3 centers to a wing. The idea gets kicked around a lot, but we can never seem to keep all three healthy long enough to try it.

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04-25-2012, 09:08 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
Except for the fact that you're completely wrong, and even Penguins fans know that coaching staff and management had discussions with Malkin about his effort level and training. They asked him to improve his training during the offseason. Which he did.

Even Penguins fans admit there was work ethic issues in the past. They will say it isn't an issue anymore, but still, the point is a valid concern for anyone giving up an arm and a leg while also taking on that cap hit.

Sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A surprise coming from a poster on this site, I know.
While I will concede that Malkin's offseason training wasn't good enough, the whole 'the organization talked to him' is wrong. What happened is that he blew out his knee in February 2011. He was so desperate to get back for the playoffs (he actually texted 'sorry' to Ray Shero when the diagnosis was confirmed) that he worked out and rehabbed like a mad man. It continued into the summer, not because someone said something, but because Malkin himself wanted to make a statement with his play this summer. I appreciate your 'overvalued' argument, but your revisionist history is unnecessary.

BTW, let's make things really simple here: Whatever someone here thinks would be a 'fair' offer for Sidney Crosby, THAT is what Ray Shero will want for Evgeni Malkin.

He's not available, and, if he were, I personally think the team that would be the best suitor (assuming it was doable financially) would be St Louis, who is so deep in terms of offensive players and prospects that they can make a deal that would sting a lot BUT still be even better.

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04-25-2012, 09:08 AM
  #88
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OP should edit the title, Shero didn't even imply that Malkin was the odd-man out. Extremely misleading.

For all we know, his comment about the 3C model could mean that they're moving Staal to the the Top 6 to play wing. Sheesh.

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04-25-2012, 09:12 AM
  #89
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Pacioretty
Beaulieu
3rd overall in 2012

vs Malkin

a young 30 goals scorer, a future number 1-2 defencemen and the top 3 that could end up to be Forsberg.

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04-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #90
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I am sure it has been mentioned but something around:

Malkin for Weber would make sense.

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04-25-2012, 09:23 AM
  #91
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From the Blues:
Oshie/Perron
Shattenkirk
Rattie

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04-25-2012, 09:28 AM
  #92
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What would EDM have to give up for Malkin.
2012- 1st; Yak
PRV
Tuebert
Musil

I think this is fair value for both teams.

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04-25-2012, 09:33 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
What would EDM have to give up for Malkin.
2012- 1st; Yak
PRV
Tuebert
Musil

I think this is fair value for both teams.
Not even close, Malkin isn't getting traded for 3 prospects and a player that spent half the year in the AHL.

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04-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
From the Blues:
Oshie/Perron
Shattenkirk
Rattie
That's a cute proposal.

-Does it include your top player or 2nd best player? No (Pietrangelo/Backes)
-Does it include your best prospect or 2nd best prospect? No (Tarasenko/Shwartz)

Hey everybody! Lets make proposals for the probable Hart trophy winner and offer up our 3rd-4th best players and 3rd-4th best prospects!

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04-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #95
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No one has topped the Canucks offer from page 1, still. Kesler + Edler + Schroeder + 1st (can add another prospect like Rodin, Connauton, Suave, etc.). Kesler can play RW really well, just so you know.

Either way, he's never getting traded, IMO. They'll move Staal 10 times before they move Malkin.

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04-25-2012, 09:41 AM
  #96
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I think the player available will be Staal, and it'll be something like Staal (+ a bit to compensate for short contract length) for Sharp (or another scoring winger). Then the team can bring in a more typical pure defensive 3rd line center.

If the Pens traded Malkin, they'd have to get Crosby and Staal resigned first. Otherwise, there's the risk that a move of that magnitude makes one of the two remaining centers unhappy and they walk in a season when they're UFA.

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04-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  #97
Shane Churla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Kesler, Edler, Schroeder and a 1st for Malkin and Michalek/Martin?
The only way your getting Malkin is if you package the Sedins. Malkin would command a huge return

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04-25-2012, 09:47 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
What did he say that implied Malkin was on the block?
Not a freaking thing. All conjecture at this point.

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04-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #99
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OP is based on a flawed premise. Order of likelihood given Shero's actual comments :

1) Staal resigned and moved into top 6 either at wing on Malkin's line or centering Malkin and Neal
2) Staal asks for too much, is dealt before FA for a considerable return
3) Apocalypse
4) Shero deals Malkin based on logic put forth in OP for spare parts most are offering

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04-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Churla View Post
The only way your getting Malkin is if you package the Sedins. Malkin would command a huge return
Why would they want the Sedins? They need defensemen (Edler) badly and Kesler could play with either Crosby or Staal. Sedins are getting up there in age, what does that accomplish for the Pens?

Anyway, moot point since he's not getting traded.

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