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Nash vs. Parise; B. Ryan discussion

View Poll Results: Nash or Parise...Who should we go after?
Nash 23 13.77%
Parise 94 56.29%
Either one, doesnt matter 19 11.38%
Don't want either one 31 18.56%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-24-2012, 11:58 PM
  #76
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bottom 6 would be fine if we got parise. i don't think parise would have a problem coming here. he doesn't have to really uproot to take the train.

top 6 would be stacked.

i'd prefer nash, but the asking price is way too much considering that we get the cap hit AND lose assets. if parise is on the market it's an obvious move for anybody in the league to go after him-- if we can't get him, then a guy like ryan is potentially great.

bottom 6 is kind of weak-- and i still feel like we need a solid shot from the point for the pp. (stralman has been better, and if his shot improves i'd change my mind, but depth is good)

mitchell/rupp/boyle/prust/feds/anisimov/dubinsky have all been weak. prust is a role guy so he's worth keeping. boyle's cheap and might have confidence going into next season... since we signed rupp i thought he was worthless. feds is gone. anisimov REALLY needs to go for some strength training. he gets moved off the puck wayy too easy. i'm hoping dubinsky either gets moved or has a ballin' season. mitchell is useless, but he's a cheap depth forward if we need him and not overwhelmingly bad.

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Old
04-25-2012, 01:36 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc55 View Post
balanced teams with little holes win championships (boston), not teams with one line of stars (tampa)
Very true, esp. in this salary cap era.

Of course, finding the right cogs who will mesh well, boost the bottom 6 and fix the PP is a lot easier said than done. Signing a big name FA like Parise is a quick fix and, all else being equal, will offer a greater assurance of improvement as opposed to rolling the dice with mixing-and-matching other team's role players.

I don't see how it can hurt the Rangers to aggressively pursue Parise during the off-season and make it known that we really want him onboard here as the final piece of the puzzle. And why wouldn't the feelings be reciprocated? Parise's arrival would give him a bonafide shot at hoisting the Cup within the next 2-3 seasons.

If he signs with hometown Minnesota,.... then he only ends up deferring a realistic shot at winning the Cup for another 4-5 years, at least. Detroit? They have one of the oldest rosters in the league right now. Does he want to spend his prime years being part of team in transition?

Parise and the Rangers are a good fit,.... if a cap-friendly deal can somehow be worked out.

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Old
04-25-2012, 02:17 AM
  #78
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How the hell can anyone disagree that we need a pure scorer? What the hell? That is the main thing we've been missing all year. We absolutely need to add at least one pure scorer and then another complimentary scorer. Holy ****, we need to upgrade the bottom 6? THAT'S our problem? No chance. No chance.

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04-25-2012, 02:51 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1stpMJe7p

Still want Nash?

The price is not going to drop.

Nash hasn't had a 40 goal season since 2008-09. 4 playoff games in his career. How can he be the final piece with 4 playoff games on his resume? Any team going into the playoffs with Nash will face doubts and questions about his lack of playoff experience.

Parise is going to Detroit.

The Rangers aren't the Sharks or the Canucks with a roster full of players in their 20s/early 30s. People are panicking too much. Blow up the team. Go trade for one player.
Totally agree. If we could pry Ryan from Anaheim for Dubinsky, 2 first rounders and McIlraith/Erixon I might be tempted to go for it though.

Ryan - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - Callahan
Hagelin - AA/Boyle - Zuccarello/Miller/Thomas/Fasth/FA/trade
Rupp - Boyle/AA - Prust

Looks extremely sexy - no?

Btw I heard a rumor in Sweden that Fasth might be heading to North America next season.... He is apparently the real deal scouts/Swedish managers say... Let's hope so!

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04-25-2012, 03:54 AM
  #80
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Go after neither. Parise isn't a true sniper. He'll also get overpaid by someone with a TON of cap space (Think Detroit or his hometown Minnesota sign him) Nash is more a sniper, but I don't want that contract. Bobby Ryan is the player to go after. I don't know if Anaheim is still looking to shake things up after missing the playoffs, but Ryan would be amazing to have on this team. He's got elite talent. He's also a right handed shot with a good shot. He'd be perfect on a PP with many left handed shots and would pose a threat on the PP.

He's a bigger body (6'2, 210) and he has a friendly cap hit. What would it take to get him. Not sure, but if we aren't giving up one of our big young D (DZ or McD) I'm fine with trading just about anyone outside of Kreider and Stepan for him. Ryan also has 8 goals and 11 points in 19 playoff games.

He has a very good contract for a player of his caliber (5.1 million with 5.6 salary) and is a 30 goal scorer. He also wouldn't have to play with Gabby and Richards adding depth to another scoring line. Kreider could play with them, as could Hagelin or even Dubinsky if retained and confident in his game. Callahan could play on that line as well.

Would Anisimov, McIrath, Miller and a pick be enough? Anaheim gets a center to play behind Getzlaf and replace Koivu, a rugged D to pair with Fowler, and scrappy center who could play in a season or two possibly with 2nd/3rd line potential, and a late round 1st or 2nd. Do we need to add more? Too much?

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04-25-2012, 07:28 AM
  #81
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So between Nash - Parise - or Ryan..I'd say Nash or Ryan..Parise is kind of a redundant player on this team. Not that thats a bad thing!! However Parise reminds me so much of Callahan, yes he has more offensive flare to his game, however Parise is who he is because of work ethic. Just like our Captain Cally is who he is because of work ethic.

This team needs a highlight reel game breaker. We do not have a single player that beats defenders with stick skills and one on one game breaker capability. Gaborik can score, but he only throws the puck into open ice and beats guys with speed.

Parise is a better playmaker, however his stature and beating guys one on one is no different that Callahan and only out scored Callahan by 2 goals this year.

Again its been said but we need a Nash or Ryan that can come in from the blue line beat a guy one on one and score. To top it off this series vs Ottawa proves our next scorer needs some size so that he doesn't get covered up and shadowed as easily as some of the scorers have been.

I'm not the first one with this idea, but seeing as we held onto first place for most of the year without having Marc Staal in the line up, is he perhaps the saving grace of this team from emptying out its cupboard of prospects? I'd assume we would have to add a little bit in either trade but without having to offer up Kreider, Miller, DZ, or any other considered untouchable piece, could the Rangers make a trade for either Nash or Ryan and have the center piece going back be Staal?

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04-25-2012, 08:05 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Go after neither. Parise isn't a true sniper. He'll also get overpaid by someone with a TON of cap space (Think Detroit or his hometown Minnesota sign him) Nash is more a sniper, but I don't want that contract. Bobby Ryan is the player to go after. I don't know if Anaheim is still looking to shake things up after missing the playoffs, but Ryan would be amazing to have on this team. He's got elite talent. He's also a right handed shot with a good shot. He'd be perfect on a PP with many left handed shots and would pose a threat on the PP.

He's a bigger body (6'2, 210) and he has a friendly cap hit. What would it take to get him. Not sure, but if we aren't giving up one of our big young D (DZ or McD) I'm fine with trading just about anyone outside of Kreider and Stepan for him. Ryan also has 8 goals and 11 points in 19 playoff games.

He has a very good contract for a player of his caliber (5.1 million with 5.6 salary) and is a 30 goal scorer. He also wouldn't have to play with Gabby and Richards adding depth to another scoring line. Kreider could play with them, as could Hagelin or even Dubinsky if retained and confident in his game. Callahan could play on that line as well.

Would Anisimov, McIrath, Miller and a pick be enough? Anaheim gets a center to play behind Getzlaf and replace Koivu, a rugged D to pair with Fowler, and scrappy center who could play in a season or two possibly with 2nd/3rd line potential, and a late round 1st or 2nd. Do we need to add more? Too much?

Staal: Dubinsky/Anisimov:McIlrath/Miller: Thomas:1st pick

(not saying trade all those players. the / means one or the other.)

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Old
04-25-2012, 08:06 AM
  #83
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Getting a Ryan would be great.....but why would Anaheim give up a 25 year old Power Forward with Skill who has scored 30+ Goals in every full season he's played in the NHL? And with a more than reasonable Cap Hit/Salary? As much as I'd want Ryan.....if I were Anaheim, I would be looking for a "Stellar" package in return and not Trade him just for the sake of shaking things up. Ryan is clearly a much better option than Nash in all aspects. Columbus was asking the Moon for Nash. Clearly too high/much of an asking price. I can't imagine Bobby Ryan being that much less. But then again...you never know right?

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04-25-2012, 08:16 AM
  #84
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I highly doubt Anaheim trades Ryan without one of Staal, Girardi, or McD going the other way.

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04-25-2012, 08:16 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke11y96 View Post
So between Nash - Parise - or Ryan..I'd say Nash or Ryan..Parise is kind of a redundant player on this team. Not that thats a bad thing!! However Parise reminds me so much of Callahan, yes he has more offensive flare to his game, however Parise is who he is because of work ethic. Just like our Captain Cally is who he is because of work ethic.

This team needs a highlight reel game breaker. We do not have a single player that beats defenders with stick skills and one on one game breaker capability. Gaborik can score, but he only throws the puck into open ice and beats guys with speed.

Parise is a better playmaker, however his stature and beating guys one on one is no different that Callahan and only out scored Callahan by 2 goals this year.
I'd give Parise more of a nod over Callahan offensively. Parise is a better Goal Scorer/Sniper (even though he only scored 2 more goals this year). Parise does have a 45 goal season as well as a 38 goal season. I think we can agree that around 30 goals is Callahan's ceiling. And as you said.....Parise is a better playmaker. He also has more speed.

But you're right.....what we need is a guy who can beat defenders one on one and break down D's. Someone who has the skill and creativity to do this. We are such a North South skating team with very little creativity (which is Torts system?). But then again....when he won the Cup with Tampa, he had game breaker/changers (ie. LeCavalier/St Louis) which we don't have. That is exactly what we are missing

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04-25-2012, 08:37 AM
  #86
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Can't trade for guys that aren't available. All signs point to Ryan being off the market.

If Nash made about $1M less and the price came down, Nash over Parise is a no brainer for me. However, at the current asking price, I can't see a deal happening.

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04-25-2012, 08:37 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Parise 1000%. Only costs $$$, not $$$ + prospects + the kitchen sink, unlike Nash.
Right...This is the most compelling argument.

If both were UFAs and cost was same, I'd probably take Nash, but since that isn't the case give me the guy who is a UFA even if it costs an extra $1m per.

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04-25-2012, 08:41 AM
  #88
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Only on HF Boards will people debate over the TYPES of goals this team needs to score.

Who cares if the Rangers bring in a player who scores 40 goals with his face or by sniping from center ice? It's 40 goals.

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04-25-2012, 10:03 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Only on HF Boards will people debate over the TYPES of goals this team needs to score.

Who cares if the Rangers bring in a player who scores 40 goals with his face or by sniping from center ice? It's 40 goals.
Only on HF will someone say that we have to upgrade our bottom 6 before our scoring. I still cannot believe I read that earlier. I posted up on that late last night when I couldn't sleep. I thought I was dreaming I was so groggy. I had to wake up again today and re-read what I wrote and what I posted up on because I thought it was impossible for anyone to suggest that we need to re-do the bottom 6 instead of adding scoring. But nope. Not impossible.

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04-25-2012, 12:31 PM
  #90
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Can't trade for guys that aren't available. All signs point to Ryan being off the market.
Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne (if he stays for another season), Ryan, Etem, Palmieri, Holland...scoring is not going to be a huge problem for them.

Meanwhile...Visnovsky (36 years old), Sbisa, Fowler, Lydman, Beauchemin, Brookbank...not very strong defensively, and with Visnovsky being the age that he is, not particularly deep, either. And if they lose Schultz, they have very little in the way of defensemen coming up. A below average group of defensemen in the NHL, IMO.

I know they played better down the stretch last season, but the West isn't going to be any easier next season, and I expect Dallas and Colorado are going to only get better next year, even if SJ ends up retooling and taking a step back.

Only Edmonton, Minnesota, Columbus, and maybe Dallas and Calgary have a lesser group of blueliners in the West than the Ducks do. I think the Ducks actually have a lot in common with the Oilers. Some of that forward talent is going to have to be swapped for some help defensively.

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04-25-2012, 12:41 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Only on HF will someone say that we have to upgrade our bottom 6 before our scoring. I still cannot believe I read that earlier. I posted up on that late last night when I couldn't sleep. I thought I was dreaming I was so groggy. I had to wake up again today and re-read what I wrote and what I posted up on because I thought it was impossible for anyone to suggest that we need to re-do the bottom 6 instead of adding scoring. But nope. Not impossible.
i agree.

our bottom 6 also becomes a hell of a lot stronger if we can add a scorer withotu sacrificing too much off of the current roster.

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04-25-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Only on HF will someone say that we have to upgrade our bottom 6 before our scoring. I still cannot believe I read that earlier. I posted up on that late last night when I couldn't sleep. I thought I was dreaming I was so groggy. I had to wake up again today and re-read what I wrote and what I posted up on because I thought it was impossible for anyone to suggest that we need to re-do the bottom 6 instead of adding scoring. But nope. Not impossible.
Yeah I read that and skipped over it.

By default if the Rangers upgrade their top-6, one of their current top-6 players moves down to the bottom-6.

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04-25-2012, 12:46 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne (if he stays for another season), Ryan, Etem, Palmieri, Holland...scoring is not going to be a huge problem for them.

Meanwhile...Visnovsky (36 years old), Sbisa, Fowler, Lydman, Beauchemin, Brookbank...not very strong defensively, and with Visnovsky being the age that he is, not particularly deep, either. And if they lose Schultz, they have very little in the way of defensemen coming up. A below average group of defensemen in the NHL, IMO.

I know they played better down the stretch last season, but the West isn't going to be any easier next season, and I expect Dallas and Colorado are going to only get better next year, even if SJ ends up retooling and taking a step back.

Only Edmonton, Minnesota, Columbus, and maybe Dallas and Calgary have a lesser group of blueliners in the West than the Ducks do. I think the Ducks actually have a lot in common with the Oilers. Some of that forward talent is going to have to be swapped for some help defensively.
The difference between Edmonton and Anaheim is that Anaheim's major players are going to be UFA's in 1 year. That could be a potentially MASSIVE blow to that organization if they don't re-sign them or get a major haul in return.

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04-25-2012, 12:50 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Getzlaf, Perry, Selanne (if he stays for another season), Ryan, Etem, Palmieri, Holland...scoring is not going to be a huge problem for them.

Meanwhile...Visnovsky (36 years old), Sbisa, Fowler, Lydman, Beauchemin, Brookbank...not very strong defensively, and with Visnovsky being the age that he is, not particularly deep, either. And if they lose Schultz, they have very little in the way of defensemen coming up. A below average group of defensemen in the NHL, IMO.

I know they played better down the stretch last season, but the West isn't going to be any easier next season, and I expect Dallas and Colorado are going to only get better next year, even if SJ ends up retooling and taking a step back.

Only Edmonton, Minnesota, Columbus, and maybe Dallas and Calgary have a lesser group of blueliners in the West than the Ducks do. I think the Ducks actually have a lot in common with the Oilers. Some of that forward talent is going to have to be swapped for some help defensively.
Only 4 of the forwards you listed are scoring effectively at the NHL level, and one of them is on the tail end of his career. Etem and Palmieri are promising young players, but neither has proven that they could even come close to filling the hole that Ryan would leave. I won't argue that their defense is somewhat poor, but with a high pick in this years draft, and freeing up some money from Selanne leaving, they could have a good shot at bringing in another defensemen without dealing away their top forwards.

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04-25-2012, 01:06 PM
  #95
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Anaheim put Ryan on the block last fall. They couldn't get what they wanted and took him off the market. At the same time,Carlyle was fired. Ryan meet with the Ducks brass at his exit meeting last week.

Quote:
I think after my conversations with everybody, I can enter the summer a little more secure than I was throughout the year is the best way to put it.
http://ducks.ocregister.com/2012/04/...season/109460/

Looks like Anaheim told Ryan to enjoy his summer. Train hard. Come back ready to go in September. He won't be traded. That's the impression from reading his comments.

They have bigger problems than him. Getzlaf and Perry will both be group IIIs next July. The Ducks aren't an upper limit team. Can they afford to keep both players if they want top dollar? Getzlaf had a terrible season.

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04-25-2012, 01:19 PM
  #96
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Anaheim put Ryan on the block last fall. They couldn't get what they wanted and took him off the market. At the same time,Carlyle was fired. Ryan meet with the Ducks brass at his exit meeting last week.



http://ducks.ocregister.com/2012/04/...season/109460/

Looks like Anaheim told Ryan to enjoy his summer. Train hard. Come back ready to go in September. He won't be traded. That's the impression from reading his comments.

They have bigger problems than him. Getzlaf and Perry will both be group IIIs next July. The Ducks aren't an upper limit team. Can they afford to keep both players if they want top dollar? Getzlaf had a terrible season.
So they're going to keep the relatively one dimensional sniper and let the huge, elite playmaker go?

I'm sure they did tell Ryan to train hard. My question is what will happen by December or January where they're in a dogfight with 5-6 other teams for one of the last playoff spots. What are they going to do about their paltry defense?

I don't know how you can walk away from Getzlaf and/or Perry and keep Ryan. If Getzlaf and/or Perry walk, that team has to totally rebuild, anyway.

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04-25-2012, 01:21 PM
  #97
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The Rangers need more offense from their D. The Blues have Pietrangelo(51 points) and Shattenkirk(43 points). They were the Blues 3rd and 4th scorers respectively. They don't have a forward such Richards or Gaborik. A good collection of forwards. Perron scored 21 goals in 52 games coming off the concussion. Steen and McDonald missed big chunks of the season with concussions. Backes is their Callahan. Oshie finally matured and had his best season. Berglund had 38 points which the same # of points as AA

DZ had 41 points this season. McD had 32 points. Girardi had 29 points. If Sather can add Schultz,it gives them another weapon on D.

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04-25-2012, 01:34 PM
  #98
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Adding another puck-mover would be a very good idea, but is Schultz going to be ready to play in the NHL right away? McDonagh was initially in Hartford and Del Zotto pent part of year two in the AHL. I think bringing back Stralman as a bottom pairing and 2nd/1st PP guy. His puck moving is good and his defense has been surprisingly great. Stralman had a pro-rated 28 points this season. I think his play so far in the playoffs makes him a viable option for next season. Still don't know how team gave up on him and the Rangers could get him after the start of the season. Always thought his numbers were bad because of Columbus. That appears to be the case.

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04-25-2012, 01:36 PM
  #99
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How the hell can anyone disagree that we need a pure scorer? What the hell? That is the main thing we've been missing all year. We absolutely need to add at least one pure scorer and then another complimentary scorer. Holy ****, we need to upgrade the bottom 6? THAT'S our problem? No chance. No chance.
Its certainly one of our biggest holes.

But I feel even the bigger hole is a triggerman on our PP. To me that should be the #1 priority in the offseason.

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04-25-2012, 01:43 PM
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Its certainly one of our biggest holes.

But I feel even the bigger hole is a triggerman on our PP. To me that should be the #1 priority in the offseason.
To me that term is inaccurate. The Rangers don't need just a player to shoot on the PP. They need someone on the back-end who can shoot and make plays with their shot. Sometimes it means shooting wide or making a shot-pass but they need someone who is decisive on the back-end.

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