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Poll: Who should be blamed for this loss?

View Poll Results: Who deserves the blame for the Pens first round exit?
Coaching Staff 46 34.59%
Management (Ray Shero) 4 3.01%
The Players 76 57.14%
Other 7 5.26%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-24-2012, 07:49 AM
  #101
#66
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Everyone from the players to Mario, you could almost see the country club attitude sneaking back in, should take some blame for this mess. We couldn't even come up with a good playoff avatar so we should hang our heads.

As far as the CC attitude is concerned, maybe its just part of the Disco culture and the Pens want to walk the fine line of fun and work but it clearly didn't work again. There was a lack of hunger, structure and the Pens just fell into a dangerous comfort zone. Plus every other team in the Atlantic has gotten better since 09 and the Pens have gotten worse. James Neal and Nisky were a nice addition and Engo has come along but thats about it.

The thing that drives me nuts is that the Pens went back to playing 1996 hockey. The 2nd half of the season was about winning sloppy or losing badly. It hardly worked back then.

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Old
04-24-2012, 07:51 AM
  #102
River Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
It was the perfect storm.

Byslma's 'system' is one of constant attack, clearing the zone asap, getting to their zone asap, defense constantly joining the rush, etc.

Shero brough in players to fit that system; quick wingers, puck moving defensmen.

I've said before and I'll say it again, Byslma's system works great against teams like Toronto and Columbus in November. It simply doesn't translate well in the playoffs. I also said this team is too small to beat teams like NY, Boston, Philly, etc in a series. We could outskate those teams, but the problem is, when a team figures out a way to counter our system, we're done. Byslma doesn't know any other way to play, and even if he did, we don't have the players to implement it. When a team gets to their forecheck, we have no defense. When we have to dump, chase, and grind, we can't becasue we don't have the size to do it. When it comes to net front presence (offensive or defensive), we have none.

We saw Montreal 2 years ago completely collapse around Halak, blocking tons of perimeter shots, and it was successful. Philly did the same yesterday. Guys like Kunitz, Dupuis, Kennedy, Cooke, Sully, Park, etc are all nice players. But they aren't getting to the net to get those dirty 'playoff' goals. Staal is the smallest 6'5" player in the league. Orpik, Engo, Michalek should almost never get out of position by getting in deep. they are the prototypical stay at home defensemen, but Bylsma doesn't use them as such.

Add into the mix that IMO the Pens, to a man, were WAY too overconfident. Throw in extremely poor goaltending, and it all adds up to a first round collapse (again).

So this offseason, either Bylsma is going to have to be replaced, or his system altered. No use Shero bringing in rugged wingers if the dump and chase isn't part of the plan. No use bringing in a Hal Gill, if he's going to be expected to play like Paul Coffey. Then again, if Shero would have built a bigger, more physical team, Byslma's system may have changed out of necessity. Regardless, something has to fundamentally change with this team.
That sounds about right. I like Bylsma's system. However, it'd be nice if he would work on adapting a bit more when the situation calls for it.

With that said, he did get this team to buy into team defense in the 2010-2011 season. Perhaps Philly was just a bad matchup for us in addition to lack of system adjustments, defense, goaltending, etc.

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Old
04-24-2012, 08:36 AM
  #103
duffy9748
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Originally Posted by yuri28 View Post
Yep,not to mention that as i said in other threads, it's not like Couturier was the only Flyer to shadow Geno.
The guy was litterally having 2-3 defenders on him almost everytime he had the puck.
People say Giroux completely outplayed him (which is true) but let's for example compare the space Giroux had in PP with the space Geno had.
I was amazed at the space Giroux benefited in some PPs......fantastic PK from us!
This said, no one can deny Geno could have dealed better with that.
Malkin had 3 ES points (all assists) in 12 games this year when Couturier was on the ice against him. That can't just be bad luck when he absolutely shredded everyone else.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:31 AM
  #104
laufer72
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Malkin had 3 ES points (all assists) in 12 games this year when Couturier was on the ice against him. That can't just be bad luck when he absolutely shredded everyone else.
Like the person before said....looking at Corsi numbers, Malkin's line shooting percentage was much higher than oppositions on 5 v 5, which means, yes, they had bunch of shots, but only few hit the actual net.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #105
gordie
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Who should be blamed? My original blame still goes to a coaching staff who I have no faith in. After a couple of days of reflection I believe Ray Shero kept too many of his interchangeable parts Kunitz, Cooke, Dupuis, Kennedy, Adams etc... not to mention Martin & Michalek around for too long. When Shero was making move after move during 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons, he kept this roster fresh and now it has become too stale. Neal & Niskanen breathed fresh life into this roster for a short time but this team really needed even more changes but Ray Shero put too much faith in the roster as constructed and they paid dearly for it in the playoffs. I expect Ray Shero to be very active at the Draft and July 1st as well as all during the course of next year as he attempts to change the face of this roster around the core components Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Neal, Letang.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:51 AM
  #106
Polaris Husky
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The thing is, the Pens were still handling Boston and NYR quite well, and seemed to have finally got a handle on NJ.

It's just that the Islanders(!), Flyers, and Senators all tore them apart.

It was an abysmal (you can't spell "Abysmal" without "Bylsma") effort on their part, no doubt, but they definitely fell into the worst possible matchup.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:55 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by laufer72 View Post
Like the person before said....looking at Corsi numbers, Malkin's line shooting percentage was much higher than oppositions on 5 v 5, which means, yes, they had bunch of shots, but only few hit the actual net.
Luckily hitting the net isn't important in hockey

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Old
04-24-2012, 02:22 PM
  #108
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This is going to lead to some harsh replies I'm sure...

1. Dan Bylsma. The man is great on offense (albeit a mediocre neutral zone tactician) and forechecking, absolutely horrible when it comes to:
- Defensive systems and plays
- Back checking
- Adaptation
These three issues are exactly what the Cryers capitalised on to throw us out and it's all Dans fault.
2. Sidney Crosby. Don't get me wrong the guy is a great hockey player but as a personality he's whiny and as a leader he's weak.
3. Evgeni Malkin.Regular season, playoffs, first year, third year... it don't matter to Geno: he will take a dozen retaliatory minors every damn game he feels frustrated. And how many goals have we let in on Genos minors? Too many, the end.
4. The pens recent PIM increase and shoddy PK. Self explanatory...

If these issues had been solved we would have easily gone to the final.

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Old
04-24-2012, 03:26 PM
  #109
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My post SOPO avatar will be up for a day or so...then I've got a new one prepped and ready to go.

If you liked SOPO, you'll love SCN! Stay tuned.
It's a Nips thing. #SCN

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Old
04-24-2012, 04:34 PM
  #110
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I have been a big supporter of Fleury in the past but he has used up all that good will, he was awful and I feel the worst penguin in the entire playoffs. Theres no telling what wouldve been different if all those softies didnt rain in like they did. They couldve sucked the wind right out of the sails of the team, how many times did Philly score a softy right after the Pens scored? To me it begins and ends with him. 2nd is Bylsma and his decision to play his favorite guys and not do whats best for the team. This also goes along with a stubborness to pull Fleury when it clearly wasnt his day and instead of having a managable game to work with by the time we switch goaltenders it's a blowout and BJ is in mop up mode.

Paul Martin is awful, I hated that signing from day 1 (I am on record here) and i didnt like the Michelek one either. Those arent the type of Dmen I like and they have only furthered my belief that jack of all master of none type dmen blow because when they start to stink in one area they really end up being worthless. The really sad thing is people think he's going to be somewhere else but we're stuck with him as Shero gave him a NTC and possibly a NMC I am not sure about that. But the NTC which is limited I believe coupled with his #1 dman type money makes him next to impossible to move and if he has a NMC then we cant even bury him in the minors. So it's either buy him out and get hit with a phantom cap hit for the next few years or basically get used to watching him.

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Old
04-24-2012, 05:06 PM
  #111
metalan2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticFox View Post
This is going to lead to some harsh replies I'm sure...

1. Dan Bylsma. The man is great on offense (albeit a mediocre neutral zone tactician) and forechecking, absolutely horrible when it comes to:
- Defensive systems and plays
- Back checking
- Adaptation
These three issues are exactly what the Cryers capitalised on to throw us out and it's all Dans fault.
2. Sidney Crosby. Don't get me wrong the guy is a great hockey player but as a personality he's whiny and as a leader he's weak.
3. Evgeni Malkin.Regular season, playoffs, first year, third year... it don't matter to Geno: he will take a dozen retaliatory minors every damn game he feels frustrated. And how many goals have we let in on Genos minors? Too many, the end.
4. The pens recent PIM increase and shoddy PK. Self explanatory...

If these issues had been solved we would have easily gone to the final.
Hilarious you leave out Fleury. Fleury overrides all of these problems.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:01 PM
  #112
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I blame whoever was comparing the Pens to Lannister's from George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series.

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:04 PM
  #113
Darth Vitale
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Originally Posted by IHWR View Post
My post SOPO avatar will be up for a day or so...then I've got a new one prepped and ready to go.

If you liked SOPO, you'll love SCN! Stay tuned.

Good GOD, man... what have you done?!

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Old
04-24-2012, 09:19 PM
  #114
Uemoda
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Good GOD, man... what have you done?!


The zoom in with the circles is just too much. It's hilarious.

Creepy, no doubt, but still hilarious.

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Old
04-25-2012, 05:29 AM
  #115
ArcticFox
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Hilarious you leave out Fleury. Fleury overrides all of these problems.
I know and I expected this reply. However I hesitate to throw him in the mix because the fact is we all know how good he can be IF the defense is playing the right way and executing well. He was left to hang, like a diver without a cage in sharks infested waters: no matter where his focus some cryer was always in a blind spot. And yes that got to him and he got progressively worse one on one: but there's a root cause and he wasn't it. In fact four causes, which I listed.
- Dans ****** defensive competence
- Sid not being anywhere near the great leader pens fans want to believe
- Geno taking too many childish minors as always
- General increase in number of minors along with a disintegrating PK

These four causes led to Flower floundering, not Fleury himself. At most I can say that he has shown to buckle under intense pressure unlike GOAT goalies like Hasek and Roy. For his cap-hit I definetely expected more composure and ability to refocus after a bad goal.
But he is still, imo, not a root cause to why this team lost so badly.

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Old
04-25-2012, 06:09 AM
  #116
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1. MAF - not close

not saying he was the only issue...

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Old
04-25-2012, 06:32 AM
  #117
Florentino Ariza
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I don't know how you could look at this series and say anything was more disappointing than the lack of discipline, which led to us getting ***** on the PK. In spite of everything, we could have won the series if we didn't take ridiculous penalties.

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04-25-2012, 07:01 AM
  #118
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I blame the avatar idea for the 2011-2012 playoffs. Shirts off? C'mon guys.

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04-25-2012, 07:20 AM
  #119
Polaris Husky
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Originally Posted by Florentino Ariza View Post
I don't know how you could look at this series and say anything was more disappointing than the lack of discipline, which led to us getting ***** on the PK. In spite of everything, we could have won the series if we didn't take ridiculous penalties.
I wonder to what extent (Game 3 aside) they really could have, though.

I think Laviolette really managed to set a trap, so to speak, with his (and Berube's) behavior before the series even started, planting a seed in the officials' heads. The Pens could have taken _less_ stupid penalties had the refs not been looking to haul them off for the slightest possible thing, but even knowing that they were, I'm not sure any team could have played 'properly' enough to stay out of the box.

Even so, the Pens basically went into every game spotting the Flyers 2-3 goals thanks to their horrid PK efforts.

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Old
04-25-2012, 07:34 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by PJT View Post
I blame the avatar idea for the 2011-2012 playoffs. Shirts off? C'mon guys.
AGREED, so stupid

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Old
04-25-2012, 07:36 AM
  #121
IHWR
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AGREED, so stupid
AGREED, should've gone with Sidney Crosby's Nipples.

It's a Nips thing.

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Old
04-25-2012, 07:39 AM
  #122
UnderratedBrooks44
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AGREED, so stupid
It was a little.....not hetero. Okay a lot. #notthattheresanythingwrongwiththat

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Old
04-25-2012, 04:40 PM
  #123
OGBobbyFarnham
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It was dissappointing the number of penalties we took but if you look at things game by game. The discipline was there. We just needed to play better in all areas of the ice.

Games 1 and 2 were pretty tame. Hard hitting and Fleury and the D-Core couldn't prevent anything. Game 3 got crazy when it was going down the same path. Game 4 on everything was called tight, thus you seen the amount of flops pick up from the Flyers side of things. Their PP was clicking big time. We just really sucked as a team overall. Game 5 was the only game that looked like an actual playoff effort from this team from the goal out.

It was like the Flyers had us figured out and we couldn't stop a puck or prevent it from getting there other than Game 5.

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