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Jordan Staal II

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Old
04-25-2012, 04:45 PM
  #51
Bennett Brauer
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
An overrated 3rd line C. People keep calling Staal overrated, yet here we are on thread number 2. I take it people want this "overrated bum".
In before people say it's mostly Pens fans keeping the threads going

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04-25-2012, 04:47 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
They all got very large pay raises. That may have worked previously, but right now the penguins are only 300k under the cap and James Neal is about to push you well over the cap. There are no big contracts coming off the books and you have plenty of holes to fill.

One of the 3 will be traded. The smart one long term is Malkin.
To be fair it was harder last time for Shero to fit them all under the cap, they, as you said, got significant pay raises. This time the increases will be marginal. I can't expect Sid or Geno get significant pay raises. Staal could go up to 6, assuming he wants to stay. The solution would be moving a high priced defenceman or getting creative somewhere else. The big thing for Pittsburgh is ensuring that they get value on ELCs the next few seasons such as from Despres, Morrow, and possibly Beau Bennett, and ensuring they can afford whatever Letang wants - he's the wildcard.

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04-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Good lord... just please stop. You OBVIOUSLY have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
You want to point out why?

As a Lightning fan I actually have a pretty good idea what it means to have a top heavy roster. I'm not saying the Penguins can't keep Crosby and Malkin (or even all 3). Just that the best move long term would be to trade Malkin. Do you know what kind of assets Malkin would return right now? A lot more than Staal.

ITT: Penguins fans trying to justify keeping 3 1st line centers instead of upgrading the wing and defense positions.

Must be nice to have so many elite centers #penguinproblems

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04-25-2012, 04:51 PM
  #54
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If Staal goes, I want to see a tough to play against D-corps and Sid/Geno properly surrounded with talent.

That's the only way you make up for the loss of such a player.

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04-25-2012, 04:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Nah, Staal > Pommer

Myers for Staal?
Pittsburgh takes that and runs for the hills. Wow

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04-25-2012, 04:58 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Keep Staal 10 yrs 58 million

Trade Malkin + Martin for Perry, Ryan + 2012 1st

Sign Perry 10 yrs 70 million
Sign Crosby 10 years 99 million with bonuses
Draft Dumba with 6th overall sign him to ELC

We add
1.8 (Staal raise)
7(Perry)
1.2(Crosby raise)
1.5(Dumba ELC)
11.5 million

We give away
8.7(Malkin)
5(Martin)
13.7 million

We save money and get a deeper team.
You'd rather trade away Malkin than Staal. Not to say that Anaheim would do that deal, because they wouldn't. It's horrible for them.

I doubt Crosby does any additions to his cap hit either, he's superstitious and will probably keep it at $8.7m

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04-25-2012, 05:00 PM
  #57
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Pittsburgh takes that and runs for the hills. Wow
Would never happen.

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Old
04-25-2012, 05:13 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by PenguinTommy View Post
I understand, then Shero will politely say Thank You and continue to do his job with Staal or listening to other offers.
Reminder that Staal is a UFA in 1 year. Ott is signed for an extra year and can do Staal's job just as well (as a third liner who steps up to play 2nd line minutes once in a while). Reilly Smith is a promising young WINGER prospect on an ELC! And much closer to the NHL ready than

Of course, I'd really only offer Ott and R Smith if there was an extension for Staal in the works.

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04-25-2012, 05:15 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Reminder that Staal is a UFA in 1 year. Ott is signed for an extra year and can do Staal's job just as well (as a third liner who steps up to play 2nd line minutes once in a while). Reilly Smith is a promising young WINGER prospect on an ELC! And much closer to the NHL ready than

Of course, I'd really only offer Ott and R Smith if there was an extension for Staal in the works.
Ott doesn't have the offensive capabilities that Staal has in my opinion. It'd be a downgrade for me.

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04-25-2012, 05:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
You'd rather trade away Malkin than Staal. Not to say that Anaheim would do that deal, because they wouldn't. It's horrible for them.

I doubt Crosby does any additions to his cap hit either, he's superstitious and will probably keep it at $8.7m
Yes, if Perry, Ryan + 2012 1st is coming our way

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04-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #61
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Could I please request that Leaf fans stop making proposals where Tim friggin' Connolly and Cody Franson are the main pieces coming back? I mean, seriously? Tyler Kennedy and Matt Niskanen for Phil Kessel. Does that work for you?

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04-25-2012, 05:39 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Yes, if Perry, Ryan + 2012 1st is coming our way
You're overlooking the part where he said, "Not to say that Anaheim would do that deal, because they wouldn't".

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04-25-2012, 05:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Yes, if Perry, Ryan + 2012 1st is coming our way
Anaheim wouldn't do that deal so the point is mute.

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04-25-2012, 06:15 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Ott doesn't have the offensive capabilities that Staal has in my opinion. It'd be a downgrade for me.
I agree with you. Ott doesn't have Staal's offensive capabilities, but it's not like he's playing in a high octane Eastern system. Ott isn't exactly chopped liver, but he is not Jordan Staal's equal. (IMO the best comparable is Kesler)

I think the bigger issue is if Staal wants a bigger role, he'll likely walk or ask about a trade to a team that will give him a top 6 role. Dallas I think would give him that, and having Steve Ott take over that Staal's role in Pittsburgh is a logical option given his price and contract length.

The issue with Pittsburgh is that if the cap drops, they have to make a move, and not just Niskanen for a pick. Staal would honestly net you the best return, hell, if you want futures I'd probably enticed to move our 1st if it includes a long term extension for Staal. I also assume that Despres will be vying for an NHL job over the summer, and he's a LHD who will probably see 3rd pair time...

Assuming Staal is the one out, and Niskanen is moved for a pick, and the cap drops to 60mil... you have 3mil for two (potentially 3) roster spots, which gives enough flexibility to go out and get a 2 million dollar 3c and two more 4th line pluggers. Like Torrey Mitchell (who would be a pretty good pickup given the Pens' system).

Staal for LAK 2nd 2012, conditional Dal 1st 2013 (on Staal extension before UFA), and a right winger prospect if you don't want any additional salary? I could interest you in Eric Nystrom, if you want a bottom 6er with pedigree... but getting a gargantuan return for a 2/3c one year to go UFA, even if he's 23 isn't going to happen. If it does, you've fleeced a GM most likely.

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04-25-2012, 06:21 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I agree with you. Ott doesn't have Staal's offensive capabilities, but it's not like he's playing in a high octane Eastern system. Ott isn't exactly chopped liver, but he is not Jordan Staal's equal. (IMO the best comparable is Kesler)

I think the bigger issue is if Staal wants a bigger role, he'll likely walk or ask about a trade to a team that will give him a top 6 role. Dallas I think would give him that, and having Steve Ott take over that Staal's role in Pittsburgh is a logical option given his price and contract length.

The issue with Pittsburgh is that if the cap drops, they have to make a move, and not just Niskanen for a pick. Staal would honestly net you the best return, hell, if you want futures I'd probably enticed to move our 1st if it includes a long term extension for Staal. I also assume that Despres will be vying for an NHL job over the summer, and he's a LHD who will probably see 3rd pair time...

Assuming Staal is the one out, and Niskanen is moved for a pick, and the cap drops to 60mil... you have 3mil for two (potentially 3) roster spots, which gives enough flexibility to go out and get a 2 million dollar 3c and two more 4th line pluggers. Like Torrey Mitchell (who would be a pretty good pickup given the Pens' system).

Staal for LAK 2nd 2012, conditional Dal 1st 2013 (on Staal extension before UFA), and a right winger prospect if you don't want any additional salary? I could interest you in Eric Nystrom, if you want a bottom 6er with pedigree... but getting a gargantuan return for a 2/3c one year to go UFA, even if he's 23 isn't going to happen. If it does, you've fleeced a GM most likely.
With regards to the bolded, the thing is if the Pens do need to clear some cap space, they'd unload guys like Martin or Michalek before they would anyone else. Pens have some potential replacements on defense in rookies Despres, Strait, Bortuzzo, or Morrow. Up front, the Pens really don't have cheap replacements if they moved Staal for money reasons.

Just saying, if money or cap space becomes an issue, there are guys who will be moved so that Staal, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal don't have to go anywhere.

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04-25-2012, 06:23 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
With regards to the bolded, the thing is if the Pens do need to clear some cap space, they'd unload guys like Martin or Michalek before they would anyone else. Pens have some potential replacements on defense in rookies Despres, Strait, Bortuzzo, or Morrow. Up front, the Pens really don't have cheap replacements if they moved Staal for money reasons.

Just saying, if money or cap space becomes an issue, there are guys who will be moved so that Staal, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Neal don't have to go anywhere.
Yeah, I understand that Despres is close, but I wasn't going to pencil in him and 3 other rookies onto a D corps that would be potentially too young to hold itself up.

Pens could move Martin (who has a NMC/NTC), but this is the J Staal thread. And this is why I'm trying to offer you a forward prospect with potential.

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04-25-2012, 06:27 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
We already on the 2nd Staal thread from very little speculation. Not bad for a "3rd line center".
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
An overrated 3rd line C. People keep calling Staal overrated, yet here we are on thread number 2. I take it people want this "overrated bum".
stop the ********

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04-25-2012, 06:28 PM
  #68
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Staal and Martin and #2 to LA for Brown and Mitchell. Only if Pens can sign Stoll.

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04-25-2012, 07:11 PM
  #69
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I still think a deal built around Giordano+ and Staal makes sense, especially since the Flames will have the cap space to take on a cap dump (Martin)

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04-25-2012, 07:12 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SIDGENO8771 View Post
Yes, if Perry, Ryan + 2012 1st is coming our way
There is no way in hell that happens. Literally zero chance.

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04-25-2012, 07:22 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I agree with you. Ott doesn't have Staal's offensive capabilities, but it's not like he's playing in a high octane Eastern system. Ott isn't exactly chopped liver, but he is not Jordan Staal's equal. (IMO the best comparable is Kesler)

I think the bigger issue is if Staal wants a bigger role, he'll likely walk or ask about a trade to a team that will give him a top 6 role. Dallas I think would give him that, and having Steve Ott take over that Staal's role in Pittsburgh is a logical option given his price and contract length.

The issue with Pittsburgh is that if the cap drops, they have to make a move, and not just Niskanen for a pick. Staal would honestly net you the best return, hell, if you want futures I'd probably enticed to move our 1st if it includes a long term extension for Staal. I also assume that Despres will be vying for an NHL job over the summer, and he's a LHD who will probably see 3rd pair time...

Assuming Staal is the one out, and Niskanen is moved for a pick, and the cap drops to 60mil... you have 3mil for two (potentially 3) roster spots, which gives enough flexibility to go out and get a 2 million dollar 3c and two more 4th line pluggers. Like Torrey Mitchell (who would be a pretty good pickup given the Pens' system).

Staal for LAK 2nd 2012, conditional Dal 1st 2013 (on Staal extension before UFA), and a right winger prospect if you don't want any additional salary? I could interest you in Eric Nystrom, if you want a bottom 6er with pedigree... but getting a gargantuan return for a 2/3c one year to go UFA, even if he's 23 isn't going to happen. If it does, you've fleeced a GM most likely.
Staal for a Late 2nd, conditional mid to late 1st 2013 and RW prospect? that's a pretty terrible offer.

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04-25-2012, 07:27 PM
  #72
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Quote:
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Staal for a Late 2nd, conditional mid to late 1st 2013 and RW prospect? that's a pretty terrible offer.
UFA status.

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04-25-2012, 07:30 PM
  #73
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UFA status.
Lots of teams will be interested in him. Do you think a Late 2nd + RW prospect is good enough value for a whole season of Staal?

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04-25-2012, 07:31 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Nah, Staal > Pommer

Myers for Staal?
Myers > Staal

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04-25-2012, 07:41 PM
  #75
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Myers > Staal
In six NHL seasons, Jordan Staal's highest offensive output is 50 points. Tyler Myers nearly matched that with 48 in his rookie season.

Would Staal put up more points playing top minutes in Buffalo? Yes, but Buffalo ownership has invested in Myers as their franchise defenseman and won't trade him for a center that has never shown he can handle top minutes and consistantly produce.

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