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Luongo To Toronto? Part II

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Old
04-26-2012, 01:55 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
You know what's funny?

As evident in this thread, and everywhere else I've read comments from Vancouver fans, they all have nothing but great things to say about Luongo. People in this thread are not even listening to them, they're telling you that under a defensive system he had Vezna like numbers, he carried them to the playoffs, he wasn't the reason they lost in the finals, the offense dried up and he stood on his head to take an injury depleted team farther than they have gone since 94, he is nothing but class and respect and was nothing but a great influence there, and he does not back down from Boston or Chicago so why that's listed as a concern I have no idea. Nothing but good things all around, but so many people are just choosing to ignore this from people that have seen him play 6 years daily, so stubborn its annoying.
You seem to be ignoring that small issue of age and contract.

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04-26-2012, 01:57 AM
  #77
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It's like every time Leafs fans talk about the team needs they always mention.." the leafs need a #1 goalie, #1 centre, and #1 defenseman.." how many times I've heard that I don't know...point is in the last week or so a true top 5 NHL number 1 goalie was put on the market AND is willing to come to Toronto and some people are being picky and trying to find all the reasons as to why they shouldn't go for it? You either go for it and take the risk or you do nothing and continue to be nothing.

There are no 25 year old all star goalie making 2 million falling out of the sky here, get real. Draft Subban and let him develop until Luongos time is up.


Last edited by MoeMoney: 04-26-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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Old
04-26-2012, 02:01 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
The length of his contract.

The fact it takes him until 43 years old.

His NTC

His 1 single window in either 2014 or 2018 where he can be asked to submit a list of 5 teams.

When he flops around like a salmon on dry land trying to find water.

Those are the things I find funny.
Yet... You'd be in the playoffs if you had Lu.

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04-26-2012, 02:01 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Hanta Yo View Post
You seem to be ignoring that small issue of age and contract.
He's 33, has 6 more meaningful years until he either retires or becomes an incredibly sought after asset by teams wanting to reach the cap floor, I mean imagine paying a guy 1 million for a 5 million cap hit thats the Islanders and Panthers dream come true.

You get 6 years of a great goalie at the current 8th highest cap hit, which is very fair. Watching Luongo every game I am confident he'll be very good for another 4-5 years. I don't even really want him traded I'm more comfortable keeping him and dealing Schneider for a better return. Sadly the media seems to be trying to run him out of town. Most people I talk to want him to stay.

But if he does get traded I hope its to the Leafs because the playoffs aren't the same without you guys and with Luongo in net you will have very good to unbelievable goaltending over 82 games and you will be in the playoffs again next spring. I know how much Nonis LOVES him and would be shocked to see the management team pass if they have the chance to get him. Im instantly a HUGE Leafs fan if Lu ends up there, he's such a class act.

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04-26-2012, 02:01 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Hanta Yo View Post
You seem to be ignoring that small issue of age and contract.
I'm ingoring those small issues because that's exactly what they are, small issues. Even with all the feedback they gave you're worried about a 5.5 million cap hit when you have duds on the payroll like connoly, komisarek, lombardi, colby, macarthur, etc?

Tim Thomas won the Venza, conn smyth, and stanley cup at 38, last i checked marty brodoeur is 40 and still ticking, belfour was 36 when he came here, kiprisoff is 38 and still a star, and so on. He has the experience needed to lead a young team like Toronto. You can't put in a 23 year old with half a season in the leafs goal and expect them to flourish, as evident last year when the going gets tough they crumble. This team has no leader, has no confidence in its goalies, and he solves all of that and then some. Hes been to the gold medal game and game 7 of the stanley cup playoffs, if there anyone on this team that can say that aside from kessel on team usa? You dont think he can provide very valuable leadership and advice to the players here? Consider that for a moment and then tell me if 5.5 mill and 33 years old is still a big deal.


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04-26-2012, 02:05 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bgav View Post
Yet... You'd be in the playoffs if you had Lu.
A. You can't prove that.

B. Does making the playoffs in 2013 trump the long term contract he has.

C. I've also seen what some Canuck fans feel he is worth. I wouldn't pay that price at all.

D. We have other priorities.

E. Our GM has been opposed to these kind of deals, rightfully so, and I do not believe he will go back on his word before the CBA is agreed upon.

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04-26-2012, 02:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
He's 33, has 6 more meaningful years until he either retires or becomes an incredibly sought after asset by teams wanting to reach the cap floor, I mean imagine paying a guy 1 million for a 5 million cap hit thats the Islanders and Panthers dream come true.

You get 6 years of a great goalie at the current 8th highest cap hit, which is very fair. Watching Luongo every game I am confident he'll be very good for another 4-5 years. I don't even really want him traded I'm more comfortable keeping him and dealing Schneider for a better return. Sadly the media seems to be trying to run him out of town. Most people I talk to want him to stay.

But if he does get traded I hope its to the Leafs because the playoffs aren't the same without you guys and with Luongo in net you will have very good to unbelievable goaltending over 82 games and you will be in the playoffs again next spring. I know how much Nonis LOVES him and would be shocked to see the management team pass if they have the chance to get him. Im instantly a HUGE Leafs fan if Lu ends up there, he's such a class act.
Good post, thanks for the feedback and support pal. You make some great points, and I've been thinking this as well, why do people want him gone if they have all these positive comments to make about him but it seems like its more to do with politics than anything. What happens next year if Cory falters or has a string of bad games in a row?

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04-26-2012, 02:07 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
A. You can't prove that.

B. Does making the playoffs in 2013 trump the long term contract he has.

C. I've also seen what some Canuck fans feel he is worth. I wouldn't pay that price at all.

D. We have other priorities.


E. Our GM has been opposed to these kind of deals, rightfully so, and I do not believe he will go back on his word before the CBA is agreed upon.
Oh my.

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04-26-2012, 02:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
I'm ingoring those small issues because that's exactly what they are, small issues. Even with all the feedback they gave you're worried about a 5.5 million cap hit when you have duds on the payroll like connoly, komisarek, lombardi, colby, macarthur, etc?

Tim Thomas won the Venza, conn smyth, and stanley cup at 38, last i checked marty brodoeur is 40 and still ticking, belfour was 36 when he came here, kiprisoff is 38 and still a star, and so on. He has the experience needed to lead a young team like Toronto. You can't put in a 23 year old with half a season in the leafs goal and expect them to flourish, as evident last year when the going gets tough they crumble. This team has no leader, has no confidence in its goalies, and he solves all of that and then some. Consider that for a moment and then tell me if 5.5 mill and 33 years old is still a big deal.
No kidding. A starting goaltender at 5.2 is not a bad deal, especially when that goalie is Luongo. Factor in salary inflation over the length of that deal and it's a non-issue. Compare the cap 5 years ago to today. 5.2 is going to be nothing by the end of his career.

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04-26-2012, 02:09 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
It's like every time Leafs fans talk about the team needs they always mention.." the leafs need a #1 goalie, #1 centre, and #1 defenseman.." how many times I've heard that I don't know...point is in the last week or so a true top 5 NHL number 1 goalie was put on the market AND is willing to come to Toronto and some people are being picky and trying to find all the reasons as to why they shouldn't go for it? You either go for it and take the risk or you do nothing and continue to be nothing.

There are no 25 year old all star goalie making 2 million falling out of the sky here, lets get real here. Draft Subban and let him develop until Luongos time is up.
They're waiting for a perfect player that simply doesn't exist. It's actually kind of funny.

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04-26-2012, 02:09 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
A. You can't prove that.

B. Does making the playoffs in 2013 trump the long term contract he has.

C. I've also seen what some Canuck fans feel he is worth. I wouldn't pay that price at all.

D. We have other priorities.

E. Our GM has been opposed to these kind of deals, rightfully so, and I do not believe he will go back on his word before the CBA is agreed upon.
A) You guys won 2 games out of 16 down the stretch lol, with luongo you would have been in easily

b) Of course it does, your the only not to make the playoffs since the lock out. Do you know how much revenue the team would make when they finally make the playoffs again?

C) Canuck fans dont have a say when it comes down to his true value

D) Like what?

E) we will see, hes on the hot seat to make the playoffs.. he might change his mind

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04-26-2012, 02:09 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
A. You can't prove that.

B. Does making the playoffs in 2013 trump the long term contract he has.

C. I've also seen what some Canuck fans feel he is worth. I wouldn't pay that price at all.

D. We have other priorities.

E. Our GM has been opposed to these kind of deals, rightfully so, and I do not believe he will go back on his word before the CBA is agreed upon.
Didn't your GM recently say he'd make exceptions if the right deals come along?

If your goal is to be competitive to contenders over the next 5 years I'd say it's a great move. A 5.3 cap hit is pretty easy to work around.

Goaltending has been a huge problem for your team for many years now and if it's not Luongo you will hopefully have a guy like Thomas or Kipper and not some awful combo like Reimer/Vokun or Reimer/Harding that are just bound to fail you again. Go with somebody proven over a full 82 games. Ironically Luongo's contract won't have much real money left on it when he's the same age as Kipper or Thomas.

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04-26-2012, 02:10 AM
  #88
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I honestly don't think there is a list, it just seems much too soon for Luongo and the Canucks management to come up with this decision so fast. We know how the hockey media creates stories like this to get attention, at the trade deadline almost any player that was available was rumored to be connected with Vancouver and Toronto, possibly because those are big market cities and we know how that all worked out.

I don't really understand why Toronto specifically would be on his list, I was thinking more the ways of Tampa, Florida, New jersey with Tampa being the favorite. In the end I truly believe he will end up in Tampa.

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04-26-2012, 02:12 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
Oh my.
Yes, good answer. That's how we feel about these types of contracts.

Oh my.

Luongo is not a player who is well liked by our fanbase, so you won't just come in, say great things about him, ensure us playoff success and see us nod and agree.

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04-26-2012, 02:13 AM
  #90
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@sportsnetmurph: Toronto is indeed on Roberto Luongo's list of teams he'll submit to #canucks GM Mike Gillis and it should come as no surprise Tampa Bay is 2
Shared via TweetCaster

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04-26-2012, 02:14 AM
  #91
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The question is are there better options out there to pursue?

It's fine to put up all these negatives about him, but please do suggest alternatives that will work for the team and are better than Luongo.

I think Luongo would be a great sign. Has it's risk, but what's sports without risks? At least, you are getting a legit #1 goalie and can wipe that off from the issues we have to solve.

There has to be inquiry from Burke at the very least.

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04-26-2012, 02:18 AM
  #92
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Nonis didn't have a problem moving a young promising goaltender named Alex Auld to get Luongo last time. I don't think Reimer will be a factor in the decision making process to get Luongo. It'll come down to what your scouts think of Lou and what the price ends up being.

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04-26-2012, 02:18 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Didn't your GM recently say he'd make exceptions if the right deals come along?
Our management team also said they were being patient and building a group all around the same age group.

TB is a much better fit for Luongo. They could be a cup contender with him, so let them pay the price.

If we are going to extend assets for an expensive player, why not just offer Suter $50 million over the next 7 years?

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04-26-2012, 02:19 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by MoeMoney View Post
Good post, thanks for the feedback and support pal. You make some great points, and I've been thinking this as well, why do people want him gone if they have all these positive comments to make about him but it seems like its more to do with politics than anything. What happens next year if Cory falters or has a string of bad games in a row?
There is no doubt we'll be seeing our section of this forum taken over by Schneider bashing the moment he goes on a poor stretch. People will turn on that guy so fast and be begging for luongo back. There is a group of fans that just want him gone, they get on him for everything and will blame him no matter what. Schneider and Luongo have let in identical goals in the past and luongo will be blamed and excuses will be made for Schneider. Our defensive play was pathetic all season, if it weren't for our goaltending we're in third place by a large margin, we're very lucky our division has been so awful.

People in Vancouver don't realize how spoiled they've been over the last 6 years. Luongo has been remarkably consistent and trading him is a huge risk that better work out or Mike Gillis might lose his job.

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04-26-2012, 02:22 AM
  #95
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My view on Luongo and his contract:

Come talk to me when the CBA is finished. Until we know the new deal, I don't want to commit to Luongo, or anyone else on that type of contract.

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04-26-2012, 02:23 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Our management team also said they were being patient and building a group all around the same age group.

TB is a much better fit for Luongo. They could be a cup contender with him, so let them pay the price.

If we are going to extend assets for an expensive player, why not just offer Suter $50 million over the next 7 years?
I'd trade Luongo to Toronto for much less then Tampa offers simply so I can watch him play twice a week. But sadly I'm not the GM. And I don't think it's a bad thing to have a goalie with a proven track record and many playoff lessons under his belt when building a young team. In fact that might get you deeper in the playoffs faster than going with somebody young and unproven.


I think you should offer Suter that contract no matter what you do for goaltending. Of course his cap hit will be just over 7 million while Lu's is just over 5. So theres a difference there.

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04-26-2012, 02:27 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Our management team also said they were being patient and building a group all around the same age group.

TB is a much better fit for Luongo. They could be a cup contender with him, so let them pay the price.

If we are going to extend assets for an expensive player, why not just offer Suter $50 million over the next 7 years?
Only one team will get Suter; just like only one team will get Luongo.

Suter will probably stay in Nashville; I'm not sure he would sign in Toronto even @ $7+M long term.

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04-26-2012, 02:30 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
The length of his contract.

The fact it takes him until 43 years old.

His NTC

His 1 single window in either 2014 or 2018 where he can be asked to submit a list of 5 teams.

When he flops around like a salmon on dry land trying to find water.

Those are the things I find funny.
Quote:
$10 million in 2010–11, then approximately $6.7 million annually through to 2017–18, $3.3 million and $1.6 million the subsequent two seasons, before tailing off to $1 million for the final two years.
The last four years are garbage years for cap circumvention purposes. He can be traded to a team trying to hit cap floor or just retire after he's 39. His $10M is paid out already, he's getting $6.7M in real $ and $5.3M cap hit. Look at Hasek, he played into his early 40's and was effective.

As for the lock-in, the Canucks don't have a window right now but he's still submitting a 5 team list. If he needs to go, he'll go along with that obviously.

He's got a .919 career save %, put up .919 this year, and hasn't been below .913 since his rookie year with the Islanders 99-00. He's consistent, and you know what you'll be getting year in and out. He will help solve your team's almost constant issues in goal, without an overly huge cap hit. I don't see why Burke doesn't make an offer.

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04-26-2012, 02:31 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
I'd trade Luongo to Toronto for much less then Tampa offers simply so I can watch him play twice a week. But sadly I'm not the GM. And I don't think it's a bad thing to have a goalie with a proven track record and many playoff lessons under his belt when building a young team. In fact that might get you deeper in the playoffs faster than going with somebody young and unproven.


I think you should offer Suter that contract no matter what you do for goaltending. Of course his cap hit will be just over 7 million while Lu's is just over 5. So theres a difference there.
In these playoffs:

Holtby beat Thomas (Stanley Cup)
Quick beat Luongo (Cup final, Olympic Gold)
Bryzgalov beat MAF (Stanley Cup)
Elliot beat Niemi (stanley Cup)
Smith beat Crawford
Brodeur could lose out.
King Hendric could be out.

Ward didn't make the playoffs.
Price didn't make the playoffs.
Backstrom didn't make the playoffs.
Kiprosoff didn't make the playoffs.
Hiller didn't make the playoffs.

Goaltending is an interesting position and not everything works out as expected.

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04-26-2012, 02:37 AM
  #100
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The last four years are garbage years for cap circumvention purposes. He can be traded to a team trying to hit cap floor or just retire after he's 39.
We are all aware of his contract and his extremely limiting NTC. Don't just randomly throw out "he can be traded to" because we all know it's not so easy.

He has 1 window where he can be asked to submit a list of 5 teams. The window is in 2014 or 2018.

Show me the new CBA, and I'll decide if it is worth the risk. Just because we have $, doesn't mean you can dump a very limiting contract on us.

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