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Luongo To Toronto? Part II

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04-26-2012, 02:41 AM
  #101
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Maybe the Canuck faithful can share with me the expected return for Luongo, just so I know what I would be turning down.

Personally, if I had to trade for Luongo, I'd expect MacA, Scrivens and a 2nd round pick.

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04-26-2012, 02:47 AM
  #102
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Dear Canuck fans:

Dion Phaneuf would instantly join your top pairing and make you a cup favourite. His cap hit isn't that bad. You'll love him. All it will cost you is Schneider, Schroeder and 2-1st round picks.

I don't understand why Gillis doesn't make an offer. All Dion needs is a sleep expert and he'd be the best defenceman in hockey.

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04-26-2012, 02:48 AM
  #103
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In case you didn't know, that was sarcasm.

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04-26-2012, 02:52 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Maybe the Canuck faithful can share with me the expected return for Luongo, just so I know what I would be turning down.

Personally, if I had to trade for Luongo, I'd expect MacA, Scrivens and a 2nd round pick.
Fans don't make the trades, GM's do. We could argue this back and forth all day. Toronto fans will want to buy low, Vancouver fans want to sell high obviously.

The question I have is, what does Burke do to save his job in Toronto? Burke knows he's getting a .910+ guy year in and out. Despite his over-hyped meltdown games vs Boston and Chicago, he's actually maintained his save % in the playoffs as well and managed 4 SO's in Vancouver's 2011 playoffs. Consider that he's done that without ever having a bona-fide #1 D-man in front of him.

He gave up his first rounder for Kessel, a guy he knows would put up 30+ goals per year, which turned into the #2 pick. Does he give up his #5 pick in what I've heard is a weak draft to get him? Look back at Burke's trading history as Vancouver's GM to see what he does with his picks. He throws away 2nd rounders like they are going out of style.

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04-26-2012, 02:56 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Dear Canuck fans:

Dion Phaneuf would instantly join your top pairing and make you a cup favourite. His cap hit isn't that bad. You'll love him. All it will cost you is Schneider, Schroeder and 2-1st round picks.

I don't understand why Gillis doesn't make an offer. All Dion needs is a sleep expert and he'd be the best defenceman in hockey.
Maybe if the Leafs get Phaneuf a real #1 goalie behind him, like he had in Calgary with Kipper, and you might like him again...

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04-26-2012, 03:01 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
He gave up his first rounder for Kessel, a guy he knows would put up 30+ goals per year, which turned into the #2 pick. Does he give up his #5 pick in what I've heard is a weak draft to get him? Look back at Burke's trading history as Vancouver's GM to see what he does with his picks. He throws away 2nd rounders like they are going out of style.
Why do you guys act like we don't know anything about his history.

Look at his histroy of drafting Chris Pronger, Dannny and Hank, Bobby Ryan. He has no problem drafting at the top of the draft. He should not and better not trade that pick and especially for a 33 year old goalie who is being dumped.

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04-26-2012, 03:02 AM
  #107
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Yet... You'd be in the playoffs if you had Lu.
You're starting to sound like a used car salesman.

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04-26-2012, 03:02 AM
  #108
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Maybe if the Leafs get Phaneuf a real #1 goalie behind him, like he had in Calgary with Kipper, and you might like him again...
Who said we don't like him?

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04-26-2012, 03:04 AM
  #109
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You're starting to sound like a used car salesman.
...And the payments are very manageable, being as it's ammortized over 10 years.

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04-26-2012, 03:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
Why do you guys act like we don't know anything about his history.

Look at his histroy of drafting Chris Pronger, Dannny and Hank, Bobby Ryan. He has no problem drafting at the top of the draft. He should not and better not trade that pick and especially for a 33 year old goalie who is being dumped.
Is there that calibre of a player at #5 this year? Not from what I've heard... If 2012 and 2013 drafts were held together, Bob Mckenzie said he didn't think that Nail goes #1. I'm thinking that it's a weak draft year.

Luongo isn't being dumped, he wants out. He's had issues with management before, especially to do with his goalie coach and possibly how the captaincy was handled. I'm a Luongo fan, I don't want him to go at all. If it was up to me, I'd rather fleece some team for Schneider's rights and keep the goalie with the proven track record instead of handing the keys to a guy with 68 career games. Obviously if we have to part with Luongo, I want maximum return.

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04-26-2012, 03:18 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Is there that calibre of a player at #5 this year? Not from what I've heard... If 2012 and 2013 drafts were held together, Bob Mckenzie said he didn't think that Nail goes #1. I'm thinking that it's a weak draft year.

Luongo isn't being dumped, he wants out. He's had issues with management before, especially to do with his goalie coach and possibly how the captaincy was handled. I'm a Luongo fan, I don't want him to go at all. If it was up to me, I'd rather fleece some team for Schneider's rights and keep the goalie with the proven track record instead of handing the keys to a guy with 68 career games. Obviously if we have to part with Luongo, I want maximum return.
There is no ****ing way Burke trades the 5th overall pick for Luongo. Van got him in his prime for far less then the 5th overall pick, how are you gonna flip him for more at 33 years old and a gigantic contract?!?!

Luongo wants out, the team wants to get rid of his salary, there's a certain amount of teams he would go to, and a certain amount of teams that want him.

Maximum return ain't happening.

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04-26-2012, 03:19 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Is there that calibre of a player at #5 this year? Not from what I've heard... If 2012 and 2013 drafts were held together, Bob Mckenzie said he didn't think that Nail goes #1. I'm thinking that it's a weak draft year.

Luongo isn't being dumped, he wants out. He's had issues with management before, especially to do with his goalie coach and possibly how the captaincy was handled. I'm a Luongo fan, I don't want him to go at all. If it was up to me, I'd rather fleece some team for Schneider's rights and keep the goalie with the proven track record instead of handing the keys to a guy with 68 career games. Obviously if we have to part with Luongo, I want maximum return.
There isn't a single reason for us to move our #5 for Luongo or any goalie.

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04-26-2012, 03:22 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Is there that calibre of a player at #5 this year? Not from what I've heard... If 2012 and 2013 drafts were held together, Bob Mckenzie said he didn't think that Nail goes #1. I'm thinking that it's a weak draft year.
This notion of a "weak" vs " strong" draft year drives me insane sometimes.

The fact of the matter is you can't categorize how good a draft year is, until a good 4 or 5 (maybe even longer) years after that draft. At that time, and only that time, will you be able to see which players made it, which players didn't make it, and whether projections were actually met.

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04-26-2012, 03:22 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
There is no ****ing way Burke trades the 5th overall pick for Luongo. Van got him in his prime for far less then the 5th overall pick, how are you gonna flip him for more at 33 years old and a gigantic contract?!?!

Luongo wants out, the team wants to get rid of his salary, there's a certain amount of teams he would go to, and a certain amount of teams that want him.

Maximum return ain't happening.
Luongo does not want out. Neither goalie wants out. They both want to be starting next year. There is a difference.

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04-26-2012, 03:23 AM
  #115
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Call Stevie Y, I'm sure his offer of Ryan Malone and Mattias Ohlund will be to your liking.

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04-26-2012, 03:24 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Luongo does not want out. Neither goalie wants out. They both want to be starting next year. There is a difference.
If there's two goalies, both of whom think they should be #1, one of them is gonna want out. Logic points to it being Lu, unless Van smartens up and trades Schneider for a better package.

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04-26-2012, 03:26 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Luongo does not want out. Neither goalie wants out. They both want to be starting next year. There is a difference.
Maybe not right this second, he may not. But what happens when he gets told that he won't be the number 1 in Vancouver anymore?

At some point in the off-season, the organization will have to make the determination as to which one of the two (Luongo or Schneider) they will want as their starter moving forward (if they haven't already - game 4's decision spoke volumes).

At that point, won't Lou want out?

He's not going to want to play second fiddle to a youngster, despite all that's been made of their friendship.

He's not going to want to have to face another year of annoying questions from the media about goalie 1 and 1a and Cory etc.

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04-26-2012, 03:27 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Luongo does not want out. Neither goalie wants out. They both want to be starting next year. There is a difference.
What is the difference? He wants to be the starter, and if he's not the starter, he wants out. Bottom line is, he wants out.

And he dictates where he's go. So the list is small.

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04-26-2012, 03:29 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ChillyPalmer View Post
There is no ****ing way Burke trades the 5th overall pick for Luongo. Van got him in his prime for far less then the 5th overall pick, how are you gonna flip him for more at 33 years old and a gigantic contract?!?!

Luongo wants out, the team wants to get rid of his salary, there's a certain amount of teams he would go to, and a certain amount of teams that want him.

Maximum return ain't happening.
Canucks gave up Bertuzzi to get him. Florida went for it because Keenan valued Bertuzzi highly, and there was some doubt about whether Luongo would re-sign there long-term.

Gigantic? His $10M is already paid out. It's $6.7M in real money until he's 39, $5.333M in cap hit. There are 8 goalies right now getting better than $5.3M

http://capgeek.com/leaders.php?type=...ion=G&limit=25

Goalies tend to have longer primes, look at Brodeur, Hasek, Roy. They aren't skating around and absorbing punishing checks. They are thinking the game better the more experience they get. They don't drop off until their reflexes do. Luongo is going to be that consistent guy for you until he's at least 39, and the last four years are 1.6, 1.6, 1, 1 in real $. He can retire, become a back-up and mentor a younger goalie, or go to a team looking to hit cap floor.

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04-26-2012, 03:32 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
What is the difference? He wants to be the starter, and if he's not the starter, he wants out. Bottom line is, he wants out.

And he dictates where he's go. So the list is small.
We don't know anything about that list.

It could be a list of 10 teams he would be willing to move too, or it could be a list of 5 teams that he absolutely does not want to move too.

Fact is, we don't know about the list, as NTCs aren't all the same and are often full of conditions that have been previously agreed by player + management team. Therefore, it's rather pointless to speculate on Luongo's hypothetical value based on a list that we know nothing about.

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04-26-2012, 03:33 AM
  #121
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Goalies tend to have longer primes, look at Brodeur, Hasek, Roy. They aren't skating around and absorbing punishing checks. They are thinking the game better the more experience they get. They don't drop off until their reflexes do. Luongo is going to be that consistent guy for you until he's at least 39, and the last four years are 1.6, 1.6, 1, 1 in real $. He can retire, become a back-up and mentor a younger goalie, or go to a team looking to hit cap floor.
Do we get a $ back guarantee?

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04-26-2012, 03:33 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Canucks gave up Bertuzzi to get him. Florida went for it because Keenan valued Bertuzzi highly, and there was some doubt about whether Luongo would re-sign there long-term.

Gigantic? His $10M is already paid out. It's $6.7M in real money until he's 39, $5.333M in cap hit. There are 8 goalies right now getting better than $5.3M

http://capgeek.com/leaders.php?type=...ion=G&limit=25

Goalies tend to have longer primes, look at Brodeur, Hasek, Roy. They aren't skating around and absorbing punishing checks. They are thinking the game better the more experience they get. They don't drop off until their reflexes do. Luongo is going to be that consistent guy for you until he's at least 39, and the last four years are 1.6, 1.6, 1, 1 in real $. He can retire, become a back-up and mentor a younger goalie, or go to a team looking to hit cap floor.
We like to rip on Burke, (fairly, and unfairly) but there is no way, he will pay more for Luongo now, then what he was worth in his prime.

I've found the Canucks fans flip-flop hilarious.

They run the guy out of town and now tell us how much we have to overpay for a guy they want nothing to do with.

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04-26-2012, 03:33 AM
  #123
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Maybe not right this second, he may not. But what happens when he gets told that he won't be the number 1 in Vancouver anymore?

At some point in the off-season, the organization will have to make the determination as to which one of the two (Luongo or Schneider) they will want as their starter moving forward (if they haven't already - game 4's decision spoke volumes).

At that point, won't Lou want out?

He's not going to want to play second fiddle to a youngster, despite all that's been made of their friendship.

He's not going to want to have to face another year of annoying questions from the media about goalie 1 and 1a and Cory etc.
If Luongo didn't want out, it'd be Schneider on the move, you can book that. This list being submitted right now isn't part of a window built into the contract. If the Canucks wanted to keep him, there isn't much Luongo can do until he hits his trade demand window in a few years. This has to be mutual parting of ways.

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04-26-2012, 03:34 AM
  #124
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I'm Not sure which goalie the Canucks will trade at this time but either of them will not go cheap, I figure a first rounder this year and another top player off your team.

Gillis and Burke do not see eye to eye so If Burke want one of Vancouver goalie he will have to pay or look else where.

But either goalie Lou or Cory will make Toronto a playoff team

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04-26-2012, 03:35 AM
  #125
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Do we get a $ back guarantee?
Have any of your 15,000 posts offered anything of value and relevance to a thread?

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