I posted on the main board, but I think Vanek and Leopold for Staal and Martin is fair. Vanek is an "elite" sniper, over the past two or three seasons total, minus the last half of this season in which he played hurt, I forget which, he's put up some pretty impressive goal totals that rival that of other elite wingers such as Perry and Ovie. Staal is an "elite" defensive center. Staal's offense is solid, but not anything truly special, same for Vanek's defense. Staal is younger, but Vanek is under contract longer.
Martin underachieved and is on a big contract. Leopold has only one season left. Leopold had a better season, but Martin is the better defender overall when looking at past seasons.
Now, these aren't exact, but remotely...
Vanek's sniping=Staal's defense (elite)
Vanek's defense=Staal's offense (good, but not great)
Vanek Overpaid=Martin overpaid (each by about $1.5M/cap hit)
Staal one year left= Leopold one year left (both UFA's, actually puts more value on Buffalo's side of the deal, because Darcy will tell Shero, "if Leopold leaves after this year, you still got 2 years of Vanek, at least, out of the deal. If Staal leaves, it screws me hard).
Vanek gives "elite" winger for Crosby=Staal gives "potentially" elite center for Pominville
It seems fair enough to me. I'd be willing to throw in Nashville's 1st. And hell, if they want another center, I'll throw in Luke Adam too. But I think it's a very fair deal.
He talks about having to make decisions, especially based on the CBA, for upcoming seasons.
5:20 mark -- when asked if signing Sid and Staal to extensions. He starts with "I'm not sure...." Then talks about their goal is to re-sign both of them.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
I was thinking Pittsburgh would be looking to get a very good defensemen in for Staal. That's really the only trade (or series of trades) that makes sense to me. They lost because of defense/goaltending, not really because of lack of offense.
Which means that if it were a direct trade we'd probably need to include someone like Sekera. Heck, Shero might even be looking at Myers in a deal like that (although Staal's impending UFA status might kill that notion completely). I don't know that I'd want to give up either.
I'd be interested in a deal around Vanek for Staal just because I'd be super curious to see what kind of points Vanek would get playing with Crosby or Malkin.
I posted on the main board, but I think Vanek and Leopold for Staal and Martin is fair. Vanek is an "elite" sniper, over the past two or three seasons total, minus the last half of this season in which he played hurt, I forget which, he's put up some pretty impressive goal totals that rival that of other elite wingers such as Perry and Ovie. Staal is an "elite" defensive center. Staal's offense is solid, but not anything truly special, same for Vanek's defense. Staal is younger, but Vanek is under contract longer.
Martin underachieved and is on a big contract. Leopold has only one season left. Leopold had a better season, but Martin is the better defender overall when looking at past seasons.
Now, these aren't exact, but remotely...
Vanek's sniping=Staal's defense (elite)
Vanek's defense=Staal's offense (good, but not great)
Vanek Overpaid=Martin overpaid (each by about $1.5M/cap hit)
Staal one year left= Leopold one year left (both UFA's, actually puts more value on Buffalo's side of the deal, because Darcy will tell Shero, "if Leopold leaves after this year, you still got 2 years of Vanek, at least, out of the deal. If Staal leaves, it screws me hard).
Vanek gives "elite" winger for Crosby=Staal gives "potentially" elite center for Pominville
It seems fair enough to me. I'd be willing to throw in Nashville's 1st. And hell, if they want another center, I'll throw in Luke Adam too. But I think it's a very fair deal.
Martin has 3 years left though. Would not want that contract at all.
I'd be interested in a deal around Vanek for Staal just because I'd be super curious to see what kind of points Vanek would get playing with Crosby or Malkin.
That would be fun to watch, if only so that we can see if the lack of elite center play has truly been holding him back.
I posted on the main board, but I think Vanek and Leopold for Staal and Martin is fair. Vanek is an "elite" sniper, over the past two or three seasons total, minus the last half of this season in which he played hurt, I forget which, he's put up some pretty impressive goal totals that rival that of other elite wingers such as Perry and Ovie. Staal is an "elite" defensive center. Staal's offense is solid, but not anything truly special, same for Vanek's defense. Staal is younger, but Vanek is under contract longer.
Martin underachieved and is on a big contract. Leopold has only one season left. Leopold had a better season, but Martin is the better defender overall when looking at past seasons.
Now, these aren't exact, but remotely...
Vanek's sniping=Staal's defense (elite)
Vanek's defense=Staal's offense (good, but not great)
Vanek Overpaid=Martin overpaid (each by about $1.5M/cap hit)
Staal one year left= Leopold one year left (both UFA's, actually puts more value on Buffalo's side of the deal, because Darcy will tell Shero, "if Leopold leaves after this year, you still got 2 years of Vanek, at least, out of the deal. If Staal leaves, it screws me hard).
Vanek gives "elite" winger for Crosby=Staal gives "potentially" elite center for Pominville
It seems fair enough to me. I'd be willing to throw in Nashville's 1st. And hell, if they want another center, I'll throw in Luke Adam too. But I think it's a very fair deal.
on what planet did Leopold have a better season than Martin?
Leopold was shielded from the top lines, while Martin was matched up against them all year...
Martin has 3 years left though. Would not want that contract at all.
Unless he manages to turn it around and add stability on a top-pairing with Myers. Then it would look like a great move. Still overpaid probably, but really, if he's that bad, pull a Redden and dump him in the AHL.
Quote:
on what planet did Leopold have a better season than Martin?
Leopold was shielded from the top lines, while Martin was matched up against them all year...
Earth. While that may be partially true that Martin was matched up against top lines all year, Leopold being "shielded" seems a bit far fetched. Idk the exact stats which you'll likely dig up and prove me wrong, but just upon observation, the guy was on the ice more than just about anyone else on the team, put in 8 goals, led the team in blocked shots, and while he has his mental gaffes, plays ES, PP, and the PK regularly. You don't do all that without seeing the oppositions best players.
The only assets that I wouldn't have on the table in a trade for Staal are Myers, Ennis and Hodgson.
He makes that much sense for this organization right now.
I think Shero requires Ennis as a starting point. Can play wing in the top-6, and can slot in at center if something goes wrong with one of Crosby or Malkin. I think if they wanted to get it done this summer, the package is:
Ennis
Sekera
12th pick
I think Pittsburgh may add a late-2nd or something, but I think that's the bones of the deal. It's going to hurt if we want to acquire Staal. I don't think these Roy+ deals have any sticking power.
I think Shero requires Ennis as a starting point. Can play wing in the top-6, and can slot in at center if something goes wrong with one of Crosby or Malkin. I think if they wanted to get it done this summer, the package is:
Ennis
Sekera
12th pick
I think Pittsburgh may add a late-2nd or something, but I think that's the bones of the deal. It's going to hurt if we want to acquire Staal. I don't think these Roy+ deals have any sticking power.
If Shero demands that kind of package from any team, he won't be trading Staal - no team will give a package like that up.
They would demand Sekera, I'm sure. I'd give up Armia without hesitation (and I could see them being very, very interested in Joel) and the 2012 1st is certainly in play. They may ask Ennis - or a player similar to him from other teams - but he won't be getting (Ennis).
I agree that the Roy + proposals hold very little weight. I could see them being interested in Roy as a transitional/stopgap/placeholding center, but certainly not as a centerpiece of the deal.
I'd take Staal over Carter or Richards and look at the packages those two netted the Flyers last summer.
If the Pens put Staal on the trading block, the bidding is going to get crazy.
The bidding will be high. But most centerpieces will be in the form of top prospects and picks.
I don't think any team will give up an Ennis-type player in a package for Staal. I'm typically not one to cite points as a barometer of the quality of a player, but Ennis' career-high in points, 49 as a rookie, is one less than Staal's (50 - in an injury-shortened season).
The intangibles/d play that he brings increases his trade value, but no team will give up a proven NHL talent in Ennis (who very possibly could outscore Staal annually) as a centerpiece unless it's a one-for-one swap or that team adds little. Sekera and a first isn't little. That's a package teams put together for Getzlaf, not Jordan Staal.
That would be fun to watch, if only so that we can see if the lack of elite center play has truly been holding him back.
So if I understand your logic correctly. Not having Crosby or Malkin as his center may be what's been holding Vanek back from his true potential all these years.
The bidding will be high. But most centerpieces will be in the form of top prospects and picks.
I don't think any team will give up an Ennis-type player in a package for Staal. I'm typically not one to cite points as a barometer of the quality of a player, but Ennis' career-high in points, 49 as a rookie, is one less than Staal's (50 - in an injury-shortened season).
The intangibles/d play that he brings increases his trade value, but no team will give up a proven NHL talent in Ennis (who very possibly could outscore Staal annually) as a centerpiece unless it's a one-for-one swap or that team adds little. Sekera and a first isn't little. That's a package teams put together for Getzlaf, not Jordan Staal.
Ennis likely has similiar trade value around the league to Brayden Schenn last year.
I could see the Islanders offering up Josh Bailey or the Preds offering up Colin Wilson in a deal for Staal. And if they weren't in the same division, I could see the Rangers offering up Stepan in a deal for Staal.
And as far as Getzlaf vs Staal goes, I'd rather have Staal.
