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Post-Game: ECQF G7. Washington Capitals @ Boston Bruins. 7:30pm. TD Garden. 4.25.2012

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04-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post

if it was a matter of power play production, giving his ice entirely to 6 doesnt really make sense. wideman didnt produce anything on the power play himself. it also wouldnt seem to explain why AFTER scoring a big goal green's ice was further given over to wideman in offensive situations and he was basically benched in a tie game.

meanwhile last night the quality chances on the power play went thru green including the highlight reel blocks by seidenberg on ovechkin. no points there.
the fact that Wideman didnt produce has nothing to do with it ....the point is, if 52 was "outstanding" why is he getting his time yanked for Wideman?

52 needs to produce on the scoresheet (or at the very least manage a productive PP) to be "outstanding"....he didnt do that this series

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04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
  #502
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
How in the world in this system is anyone going to put up numbers like that from the back end? Unless the PP is firing at about a 50% clip there is no way and that isn't likely to happen.

Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Semin combined for 6 goals and 6 assists in this series but Green was supposed to put up 5 and 5 by himself?
I never said that's what he's supposed to put up. That is what outstanding is for Green. He set the bar himself.

2 points in seven games is disappointing from the best offensive dman in the league. Though it is an improvement on his regular season numbers.

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04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
the fact that Wideman didnt produce has nothing to do with it ....the point is, if 52 was "outstanding" why is he getting his time yanked for Wideman?

52 needs to produce on the scoresheet (or at the very least manage a productive PP) to be "outstanding"....he didnt do that this series
So you are saying that Wideman>Green this series eh? Because it seemed Wides definitely got more key playing time in crucial situations.

You are also saying that Keith Aucoin>Semin on the PP right?

52 did produce on the scoresheet...he was a +5. led the team in fact.

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04-26-2012, 11:04 AM
  #504
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The biggest plus I can give dale is him keeping nick and ovi separate to have his line away from chara. This was pretty obvious to me. But many complained about it early on and it's a valid topic for consideration. But IMHO, it was a key.
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
I might have my ice time complaints with hunter but completely agreed with this tactic. And that is how it goes in the playoffs. Seen it time and time before when the top weapons/defense are cancelled out. Due to my Capitals fatalistic/long time view of life didn't think it would pay off but it did.
Yes, but the Caps' fan view of life led me to tell my wife, for the first time ever, I don't think we have a prayer in this Game 7. Every other time, except for Hunter's OT goal against the Flyers, I've felt we had a chance. We'll just call it a reverse-jinx. That's the fatalist in me.

Just one question: Patrice Bergeron almost scored in OT, empty-net style, but Alzner was at least there to interfere with Bergeron's shot. If that went in, what would be the tone of the post-series discussion?

My take: the Caps stood toe-to-toe against the Bruins. Win or lose, it was one of the most hard-fought series I'd ever seen. Sure, the Hunter system has warts. But for once in my life, I was really proud to see hard-nosed playoff games.

It does beat an early exit from the playoffs.

I swear, in the just over 30 years I've been a Caps fan, and it would be fair to call me a bandwagoner, this is now the first time in a very long time I feel we dictate the tempo of the game. As a team.

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04-26-2012, 11:05 AM
  #505
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uhhhh...no he was OUTSTANDING.

Green did everything that was asked of him and then some. Him and Hamrlik were fantastic in their own zone, did a good job on the PK and moved the puck very very well.

He was on for only a couple goals against if that (Green that is) and won most of his one on one battles.

You can't expect him to put up numbers in this kind of stringent defensive system.

He can't be productive on the PP when he isn't playing on it and #6 is.
so if he produces some more points and plays great in his zone (which he didnt...he was decent in his zone) how would you describe that? super duper outstanding?

he did not do "everything that was asked of him and then some"...had he done that he would not have been yanked off the top PP unit after the 3rd game.....he was given a chance on the PP (not sure why you say he wasnt) and he wasnt getting it done.....

how can you say that "he did everything asked of him...and more" in one breathe then talk about his PP time in the other.....they took it from him because, get this, he wasnt doing what was asked of him.

Green made some really solid plays in his zone....but he was beaten in the corners a lot. Thats not some huge knock as that is Bostons game

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04-26-2012, 11:05 AM
  #506
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Just so happy for this team to win something that was that tight, that competitive and that hard fought. Whatever you may think of his in-game coaching, Dale has changed the mental make-up of this team.

The mental toughness required to win a series like this is something we've lacked for a long time - but the playoffs really are as much, if not more, about will than skill.

I join in the props to the Hamr-Green pairing. They were incredibly solid the whole series. Hamr was just a beast.

Over the last few seasons, this team has shown a tendency to get complacent after tasting some success. They did it when they went up 3-1 against Montreal in 2010, and they did it last year after beating the Rags in the 1st round. We all saw what happened next.

I truly believe that that tendency has been beaten out of them by the difficulty of this year, the style of play they relied upon to win, and the fact that the 3rd and 4th line (the will guys) are as responsible for this win as the skill guys. That bodes well.

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04-26-2012, 11:05 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
the fact that Wideman didnt produce has nothing to do with it ....the point is, if 52 was "outstanding" why is he getting his time yanked for Wideman?

52 needs to produce on the scoresheet (or at the very least manage a productive PP) to be "outstanding"....he didnt do that this series
I wouldn't use the word "outstanding" for Green's play, so I'll get that out of the way right away.

That said, using the icetime argument, saying "if he was so great why didn't he beat out Wideman" isn't much of an argument. I mean the distribution of icetime has been a pretty consistent complaint about Dale, hasn't it? Wideman hasn't deserved to see that much icetime, so that distribution is as much a condemnation of Dale as it is of Green. Kind of starts to go in circles though.

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04-26-2012, 11:09 AM
  #508
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So you are saying that Wideman>Green this series eh? Because it seemed Wides definitely got more key playing time in crucial situations.

You are also saying that Keith Aucoin>Semin on the PP right?

52 did produce on the scoresheet...he was a +5. led the team in fact.
no...I think Wideman stinks.....but unless you are saying that they dont want 52 to run the PP (and considering he was on the top unit for the first 3 games that cant be true) I dont see how you can say he did everything asked of him...

the fact they yanked his time and gave it to 6 kind of indicates he wasnt doing everything asked of him doesnt it

Schultz was +50ish one year....your point? I didnt say Green stunk...Im saying he wasnt "outstanding"

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04-26-2012, 11:10 AM
  #509
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I wouldn't say Green was outstanding the whole series, but he was outstanding last night. Overall, I'd put his series performance as 'very good'.

And trying to purport that Wideman played over him for rational reasons is a massively flawed argument. There are no rational reasons for Wideman's increased ice time in some of the games.

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04-26-2012, 11:11 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
so if he produces some more points and plays great in his zone (which he didnt...he was decent in his zone) how would you describe that? super duper outstanding?

he did not do "everything that was asked of him and then some"...had he done that he would not have been yanked off the top PP unit after the 3rd game.....he was given a chance on the PP (not sure why you say he wasnt) and he wasnt getting it done.....

how can you say that "he did everything asked of him...and more" in one breathe then talk about his PP time in the other.....they took it from him because, get this, he wasnt doing what was asked of him.

Green made some really solid plays in his zone....but he was beaten in the corners a lot. Thats not some huge knock as that is Bostons game
We watched a different series then!

Green (and Hamr too) both used their bodies well and when they were on the ice (as well as Carlzner) Boston simply didn't generate much.

Most of Boston's goals came when Wideman/Schultz/Erskine were out there.

We seemed to have control of the puck MUCH more with the Green/Hamrlik pairing than any other.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors but it seems that Wideman definitely is on Hunter's good side for some reason and Green is not. If you want to suggest that this proves that Wideman>Green in this series then go ahead.

Green/Hamr/Carlzner were all outstanding in this series. The 3rd pair almost cost us.

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04-26-2012, 11:12 AM
  #511
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And it's funny to me that people didn't sleep because of the results. For me, it had the complete opposite effect--I slept like a baby

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04-26-2012, 11:12 AM
  #512
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Mike Green is #2 in TOI, right behind Karl.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Wideman isn't being given his time.

Green was yanked from PP1 because he was missing every thing. He was making boneheaded plays. This was only 3-4 games ago, we're quick to forget. But last night Green was in on PP1, if I'm remembering correctly.

Wideman is #9 overall in TOI. 5th D.

I thought Green was solid. He'd have been outstanding had he buried some of the chances he got. There is a lot more hockey left to be played. No reason why he can't elevate his game more.


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04-26-2012, 11:12 AM
  #513
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I never said that's what he's supposed to put up. That is what outstanding is for Green. He set the bar himself.
So in that case it is more or less impossible for Green to ever be 'outstanding' again or at least as long as Hunter is coaching the team because he will never be able to put up that kind of production in this system.

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04-26-2012, 11:14 AM
  #514
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I wouldn't use the word "outstanding" for Green's play, so I'll get that out of the way right away.

That said, using the icetime argument, saying "if he was so great why didn't he beat out Wideman" isn't much of an argument. I mean the distribution of icetime has been a pretty consistent complaint about Dale, hasn't it? Wideman hasn't deserved to see that much icetime, so that distribution is as much a condemnation of Dale as it is of Green. Kind of starts to go in circles though.
i thik you are missing what im saying....in general here it is....

people say "he was outstanding" and did "everything asked of him"

he was on the top PP unit for the first few games and they looked bad at it and IMO he was part of the reason (but not alone)....they yanked him off the top unit for a few more games.....how is that "doing everything asked of you".....

and again, not saying he stunk....just that he was not "outstanding"

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04-26-2012, 11:15 AM
  #515
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Green was yanked from PP1 because he was missing every thing. He was making boneheaded plays. This was only 3-4 games ago, we're quick to forget. But last night Green was in on PP1, if I'm remembering correctly.
What boneheaded plays did Green make on the PP?

Wideman was much worse, and I haven't a clue why he always seems to be the guy skating the puck up the ice on the PP. He's easily the worst at it.

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04-26-2012, 11:17 AM
  #516
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Congrats from a Bruins fan. Good luck the rest of the way.

I am a Redskin fan. Today is bittersweet. Sad about the Bruins, excited about RG3!

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04-26-2012, 11:17 AM
  #517
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We watched a different series then!

Green (and Hamr too) both used their bodies well and when they were on the ice (as well as Carlzner) Boston simply didn't generate much.

Most of Boston's goals came when Wideman/Schultz/Erskine were out there.

We seemed to have control of the puck MUCH more with the Green/Hamrlik pairing than any other.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors but it seems that Wideman definitely is on Hunter's good side for some reason and Green is not. If you want to suggest that this proves that Wideman>Green in this series then go ahead.

Green/Hamr/Carlzner were all outstanding in this series. The 3rd pair almost cost us.
can you simply not read? where am I saying that

if you want to suggest that they didnt want Green to produce on the PP that feel free.....I say it was pretty clear that his PP time was pulled because he wasnt effective on it games 1, 2, and 3....seems like you want to believe they didnt want him to produce on the PP

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04-26-2012, 11:18 AM
  #518
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So in that case it is more or less impossible for Green to ever be 'outstanding' again or at least as long as Hunter is coaching the team because he will never be able to put up that kind of production in this system.
You really think this system is so restrictive that hr couldn't accumulate 30 pp points and add another 5 goals and 25 even strength assists? I certainly don't expect a return to a point per game, but that would have him top 3 in dman scoring.

I don't buy It for a second.

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04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #519
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i thik you are missing what im saying....in general here it is....

people say "he was outstanding" and did "everything asked of him"

he was on the top PP unit for the first few games and they looked bad at it and IMO he was part of the reason (but not alone)....they yanked him off the top unit for a few more games.....how is that "doing everything asked of you".....

and again, not saying he stunk....just that he was not "outstanding"
Did you see how the PP looked WITHOUT him????? It was far worse....

Curious..in our only PP last night he was back out there on the #1 unit.

He was asked not to play like he did under BB. He was handcuffed and still made the best out of it.

Did he make any glaring errors that led to goals? I don't remember if he did. All I remember is that when he was out there I felt very comfortable and he seemed to calm the team down and we did alot less chipping it off the glass as our breakout goto play...

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04-26-2012, 11:19 AM
  #520
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Mike Green is #2 in TOI, right behind Karl.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

Wideman isn't being given his time.

Green was yanked from PP1 because he was missing every thing. He was making boneheaded plays. This was only 3-4 games ago, we're quick to forget. But last night Green was in on PP1, if I'm remembering correctly.

Wideman is #9 overall in TOI. 5th D.

I thought Green was solid. He'd have outstanding had he buried some of the chances he got. There is a lot more hockey left to be played. No reason why he can't elevate his game more.
and thats what im saying.....maybe its a pet peeve that everything these days seems to be "great...outstanding...worst ever....etc etc"

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04-26-2012, 11:21 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
i thik you are missing what im saying....in general here it is....

people say "he was outstanding" and did "everything asked of him"

he was on the top PP unit for the first few games and they looked bad at it and IMO he was part of the reason (but not alone)....they yanked him off the top unit for a few more games.....how is that "doing everything asked of you".....

and again, not saying he stunk....just that he was not "outstanding"
I get what you're saying, but bringing up Wideman on the PP is kind of pointless. Wideman never, at any point in the series, deserved to supplant Green on the PP. That he did is an indictment of Hunter.

I'd go so far as to say that I don't know if they even know what they were asking of him, but that might be extreme. I think his standards may have been unreasonable though, so "doing what was asked of him" was probably never going to happen.

And again, I wouldn't say "outstanding" either. But I don't expect to ever see that under Hunter.

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04-26-2012, 11:21 AM
  #522
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What boneheaded plays did Green make on the PP?

Wideman was much worse, and I haven't a clue why he always seems to be the guy skating the puck up the ice on the PP. He's easily the worst at it.
Lackadaisically dicking around with the puck in his own zone without any sense of urgency and turning it over as a result, for starters. It's not as much overtly boneheaded plays as the demeanor, as it can be infect the rest of the team. We saw this firsthand with BB for instance. Hunter's biggest objective seemed to take any shred of casual play or attitude on the team and kill it with fire. Say what you will about Aucoin and Wideman for all their inadequacies they play with serious urgency. I get the feeling that he really wanted to put Carlson there but didn't want to overextend his minutes as is. You'll note that Wideman was still #5 in icetime for defensemen even after his PP time, which indicates at least part of it was Hunter sheltering his minutes. Also Wideman has consistently been a point producing offensive defenseman throughout his career, so it's not a completely random move, like say putting Aucoin out there.

To Green's credit, he got a lot better after the first couple of games.

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04-26-2012, 11:24 AM
  #523
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you dont recognize that the caps current system doesnt allow for much offensive participation from the defense? there was one goal scored from defense in the entire series. by green.

in the context of that series 5 goals from any capitals is a completely unrealistic expectation.

I hope you noticed on the series deciding goal, that a boston defensemen was caught up in the offensive zone.

He was lured into our trap, and Knuble made him pay for it.

Maybe there is a method to the madness of Dale not letting his Dmen attack too often.

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04-26-2012, 11:25 AM
  #524
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Did you see how the PP looked WITHOUT him????? It was far worse....
how the PP looked without him has zero to do with anything......agian, I take 52 over 6 every single day...the staff however clearly wasnt happy with those first 3 games and him on the PP....enough so that they moved 6 in that spot

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Curious..in our only PP last night he was back out there on the #1 unit.

He was asked not to play like he did under BB. He was handcuffed and still made the best out of it.

Did he make any glaring errors that led to goals? I don't remember if he did. All I remember is that when he was out there I felt very comfortable and he seemed to calm the team down and we did alot less chipping it off the glass as our breakout goto play...
well....that screams "outstanding" to me.....if he puts up some points we can say he was "stupendously studendous outstanding" I guess

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04-26-2012, 11:27 AM
  #525
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the fact that Wideman didnt produce has nothing to do with it ....the point is, if 52 was "outstanding" why is he getting his time yanked for Wideman?

52 needs to produce on the scoresheet (or at the very least manage a productive PP) to be "outstanding"....he didnt do that this series
if you can explain why wideman was the team minute leader, skating shutdown pair v krejci and lucic and 1st pk unit and why keith aucoin was on the 1st pp unit instead of nick backstrom, then i'll believe this about wideman and green's minutes. i cant explain why dale does much of what he does.

+/- gets beat up as a stat. it depends on your pov. wideman and schultz are whipping boys. that they had a team worst -4 each makes sense. green and hamrlik had a team best +5 each. +5 btw is tied for 2nd best in the league. the caps points leader was ovechkin with 5pts in 7 games. the defensive points leader was hamrlik with three assists and green with the only goal and 2pts.

in such a low scoring series where the caps were clearly playing defense first and had few power play chances, i am not sure why so much is being layed at the feet of low production. the entire team produced little except perhaps for semin and his 3 goals.


Last edited by txpd: 04-26-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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