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04-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #1
Bladedplane
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Nordic league

so I know this is an old topic but what do you think of the idea to start a new nordic league with teams from Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway?

my idea is to have seven teams from Sweden and Finland and one or two from Norway and Denmark


the teams from Sweden:

Färjestad

HV 71

Brynäs

AIK

Frölunda

Luleå

Skellefteå AIK



The teams from Finland (i don't really know that much of the SM-liiga so feel free to correct me):

JYP

HIFK

Ässät

Lukko

Ilves

Jokerit

TPS, Tappara or maybe blues Can't really decide



The Teams from Denmark and Norway:

Vålerenga

Herning Blue Fox


And if two teams from DEN/NOR

Sønderjyske

Stavanger Oilers


Also i think that the new league should have a relegation system.


So what do you guys think?

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04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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vorky
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I can imagine it as one KHL conference. I like it. Btw, do clubs prepare it? Or it is only a dream...

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04-26-2012, 01:08 PM
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Bladedplane
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Well that would work too.

no right now this is just a dream, but I remeber a couple of years ago there was some talk about some SEL teams who wanted to join the KHL.

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04-26-2012, 01:36 PM
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Bladedplane
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but which teams would you pick out from the aboves?
i find it pretty hard to believe that the conference would have 16 teams.

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04-26-2012, 01:59 PM
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gretskidoo
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If you want fans to not care at all about half the games, this is a great idea.

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04-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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doubt it will happen, swedish hockey fans just aren't interested in watching their teams play clubs from other countrys, and certainly not pay for it, even if it's within the nordic.

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04-26-2012, 02:04 PM
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vorky
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I have no idea, nordic hockey is not my bussiness. I would say Danemark and Norway should have only one team. I would say 12-14 teams for conference is ideal scenario. I can imagine league like CHL, so two or more independent leagues which play play-off among each other. Maybe a few regular season games as well. Lets say Nordic league (conf/division) with 12-14 clubs, Baltic-European league (conf/division) - current west KHL division and Russian (former soviet) league (conf/division) - current east KHL division

It is too many clubs but I can not imagine another scenario. Russians will not agree to have less clubs like they have now in KHL (20 I believe), Swedes, Finns will not agree to have 2-3 clubs in such league.

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04-27-2012, 01:58 AM
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Ilves is the worst team in SM-Liiga and their financial side is terrible.

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04-27-2012, 02:30 AM
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1978
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The idea of a Nordic League is interesting, however I'm almost positive that it won't happen (Which makes me quite happy, I prefer SEL, and I would not want my team in a league that is sponsored by the KHL). I'm quite confident that the best move for SEL would be an expansion to 14 or 16 teams. Just imagine having Leksand, Djurgården, Malmö etc in the same league. There'd be some more lovely derbies, and thus probably a lot more attention.

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04-27-2012, 02:44 AM
  #10
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Nordic league? No. Swe/Finnish league? Maybe.

But the nordic countries should go togheter, not for sports reason but for economic. We would become one of the most powerful countries in the world.

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04-27-2012, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
I would not want my team in a league that is sponsored by the KHL
reason? hater of Russia?

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04-27-2012, 03:57 AM
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I rather have the leagues as they are and really create a hockey cup similar to the Champions League in football.

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04-27-2012, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
reason? hater of Russia?
I seriously don't see a future for the KHL. The league is like a glass house, a prestige project that will crumble once those in charge get tired of spending money on it. Just saw the attendance figures for KHL games the other day, surprisingly bad.

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04-27-2012, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermasif View Post
I seriously don't see a future for the KHL. The league is like a glass house, a prestige project that will crumble once those in charge get tired of spending money on it. Just saw the attendance figures for KHL games the other day, surprisingly bad.
you dont have any info about attendance. Majority of clubs have attendance 80-100% of capacity every game. Only 3 moscow clubs have bad attendance, but two of them are building 15-20 000 arenas. So, attendance will increase. KHL clubs have small arenas, but are building new one.

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04-27-2012, 04:13 AM
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Lots to do with SEL before even thinking about a nordice league imo. Expand with 2 or more teams? Smaller rinks like finland have? etc..

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04-27-2012, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
you dont have any info about attendance. Majority of clubs have attendance 80-100% of capacity every game. Only 3 moscow clubs have bad attendance, but two of them are building 15-20 000 arenas. So, attendance will increase. KHL clubs have small arenas, but are building new one.
I was referring to these IIHF statistics

Obviously a nordic league would be more realistic than joining the KHL imo. People in Sweden consider the KHL to be a strange corrupted league. Although a Nordic conference would leave old rivalries intact, most fans here wouldn't want to see their team play Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod or Traktor Chelyabinsk at any time, and they would definitely not pay higher ticket prices to do so. In sweden NHL has a large following, the KHL on the other hand is only watched by hardcore hockey fans.

Swedes like to think that whatever we do, we do it "better". I am not saying that the KHL necessarily has a poor, corrupted organization, but that's what most people here think, so the probability of ANY swedish team joining the KHL is about 0.001%.

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04-27-2012, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
reason? hater of Russia?
No, I have nothing against Russia. However, I don't want my team to be a part of the KHL. I'd much rather have them relegated, and see them play against Björklöven, Vita Hästen and other teams in DIV1.

I'm with supermasif here, (right now) the league looks like a huge prestige project. I don't want Swedish hockey to commit to such a league. It's just not a viable option right now, and probably won't be for very long. I'd much rather see a Champions League system, and I think most Swedes would be more interested in that.

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04-27-2012, 05:56 AM
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I sometimes disscuss with swedes here, so I can imagine their/your opinion and reasons for it.

You mentioned IIHF ranking of attendance. Look at number, all above 80%, two 100%. KHL has more teams than Elitserien, SM-Liiga, therefore overall numbers are lower (and Lokomotiv did not play KHL this season). I would not say people are not intersting in KHL. Even HC LEV Poprad, as newcomer, not connected to russian hockey history (like sweden, finland) had attendance 95,8%. Many KHL clubs have small arena, but they are buiding new one. Do you know why? Because fans are interesting in hockey matches and attendance is low.

Dynamo Minsk 14,193 - 94.08%
SKA St. Petersburg 10,126 - 81.01%
Avangard Omsk 9,143 - 88.61%
Lokomotiv Yaroslavl 8,961 - 98.80%
Salavat Yulayev Ufa 7,950 - 100.00%
Dinamo Riga 7,733 - 75.08%
Traktor Chelyabinsk 7,337 - 97.83%

plus
Amur Khabarovsk - 100.00%
Met. Magnitogorsk - 93,08%
Lev Poprad - 95,8%
Avtomobilist - 64% as worst team in ranking

Take into account, that some clubs dont send real numbers of attendance (not to pay higher tax), Example of Dynamo Moscow at Megasport arena - officialy cca 9000 fans, reality - cca 13 000 fans. I would say IIHF does not have valid info about attendance in KHL.

Quote:
People in Sweden consider the KHL to be a strange corrupted league.
it is not about quality of hockey, but about hating Russia, Putin or so. It is problem of your nation if you are Swede. No offence, but it is bad picture of KHL. KHL has more liberal rules than NHL.

KHL is about bussiness. If clubs from sweden does not want to make profit, it is their problem.

Slovaks dont like KHL as well, majority of them. But still, HC LEV Poprad had attendance 95,8%.

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04-27-2012, 05:59 AM
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vorky
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Quote:
I'd much rather see a Champions League system, and I think most Swedes would be more interested in that.
with/without KHL teams? If with, ok. if without, I am againt. Sweden, Finland dont have so much money to support Champions league. Your countries must to cooperate with KHL. It is reality and future of european hockey. It will not take so long german club joins KHL

EDIT:
my idea is to create league such CHL - two or more independent league which belong to one organisation. Is is champions league system. So what is the problem?


Last edited by vorky: 04-27-2012 at 06:17 AM.
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04-27-2012, 06:17 AM
  #20
1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
You mentioned IIHF ranking of attendance. Look at number, all above 80%, two 100%. KHL has more teams than Elitserien, SM-Liiga, therefore overall numbers are lower (and Lokomotiv did not play KHL this season). I would not say people are not intersting in KHL. Even HC LEV Poprad, as newcomer, not connected to russian hockey history (like sweden, finland) had attendance 95,8%. Many KHL clubs have small arena, but they are buiding new one. Do you know why? Because fans are interesting in hockey matches and attendance is low.

Take into account, that some clubs dont send real numbers of attendance (not to pay higher tax), Example of Dynamo Moscow at Megasport arena - officialy cca 9000 fans, reality - cca 13 000 fans. I would say IIHF does not have valid info about attendance in KHL.

it is not about quality of hockey, but about hating Russia, Putin or so. It is problem of your nation if you are Swede. No offence, but it is bad picture of KHL. KHL has more liberal rules than NHL.

KHL is about bussiness. If clubs from sweden does not want to make profit, it is their problem.

Slovaks dont like KHL as well, majority of them. But still, HC LEV Poprad had attendance 95,8%.
Here's my opinion, and that is that Swedes in general are NOT all that interested in seeing Djurgården IF vs. Spartak Moscow etc. even if these teams would have better players. Why? Because in general, I think we're more interested in seeing the good old derbies, even if the players are just average Joe's with a salary of 10 000 SEK a month.

In regards of the economy of the KHL I'd love to see some transparency and numbers on sponsorship etc. Do you know of any sites/documents in English that display this?

I don't want sports to be about profit. I mean, c'mon... I don't want a greedy club owner to use a club as a way of making money. That's not what sports are about if you ask me. I want the club to be in the hands of the ones who love it, e.g. the supporters. Money doesn't mean a thing to me, it makes things easier, but as a whole it won't make me any happier. I want my club to stand for good values and ideals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
with/without KHL teams? If with, ok. if without, I am againt. Sweden, Finland dont have so much money to support Champions league. Your countries must to cooperate with KHL. It is reality and future of european hockey. It will not take so long german club joins KHL

my idea is to create league such CHL - two or more independent league which belong to one organisation. Is is champions league system. So what is the problem?
With KHL-clubs, naturally.

Why is it a must for us to cooperate with the KHL? We're fine without you and your thick stacks of rubel. Call me conservative, but I want the SEL to stay intact, and I'm positive that most Swedes want that as well. I don't see any future in a "CHL"-league as you call it.

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04-27-2012, 06:47 AM
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vorky
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Quote:
Here's my opinion, and that is that Swedes in general are NOT all that interested in seeing Djurgården IF vs. Spartak Moscow etc. even if these teams would have better players. Why? Because in general, I think we're more interested in seeing the good old derbies, even if the players are just average Joe's with a salary of 10 000 SEK a month.

In regards of the economy of the KHL I'd love to see some transparency and numbers on sponsorship etc. Do you know of any sites/documents in English that display this?

I don't want sports to be about profit. I mean, c'mon... I don't want a greedy club owner to use a club as a way of making money. That's not what sports are about if you ask me. I want the club to be in the hands of the ones who love it, e.g. the supporters. Money doesn't mean a thing to me, it makes things easier, but as a whole it won't make me any happier. I want my club to stand for good values and ideals.
I dont say that "this" league has to work all clubs vs all clubs, I dont like it, I like derbies as well. Therefore I say about CHL model.. you dont like it, ok. How do you imagine Champions league? like soccer? I would prefer common play-off (KHL, SM-Liiga, Elitserien, DEL or so). I dont want inter-games during regaluar season.

It is about law.. russian law does not allow to publish players salary. European law is the same. Clubs are privite corporations, law does not allow them to publish financial situation, budgets. I would like to know it as well, but I am democrat, I respect rule of law. Is players salary in Sweden public info?
Follow KHL site and you get info you need. Of course in russian. I have also problem to get info from SM-Liiga, I can not speak finnish. It is my problem, not SM-Liiga´s. Today is meeting of KHL shareholders and owners of KHL clubs.

I support your idea about money. I prefer it among youth hockey, not senior one.

I dont pay by rubels

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04-27-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin929 View Post
Nordic league? No. Swe/Finnish league? Maybe.

But the nordic countries should go togheter, not for sports reason but for economic. We would become one of the most powerful countries in the world.
Not really, a combined Nordic economy would make us the 10th largest in the world, pretty far from what you could call one of the most powerful "countries".

In time an expansion or a new European league will happen I don't think there a scenario down the line where it won't, and it should start with a Sweden-Finland cooperation expanding to Germany, Switzerland etc. Though as mentioned a Champhions League of Hockey is a great way to begin...




Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
it is not about quality of hockey, but about hating Russia, Putin or so. It is problem of your nation if you are Swede. No offence, but it is bad picture of KHL. KHL has more liberal rules than NHL. .
No, it's not about hating Russia, it's about facts and knowledge. Russia is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet. FACT. Get over it, or better yet get involved to change things.

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04-27-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by svartgul
No, it's not about hating Russia, it's about facts and knowledge. Russia is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet. FACT. Get over it, or better yet get involved to change things.
study KHL rules, you will find out, you are wrong.

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04-27-2012, 09:48 AM
  #24
1978
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
study KHL rules, you will find out, you are wrong.
Where can we find these rules then? Also, just because the KHL may have rules set up to hinder corruption (I have no idea if they have), that does not mean that the league is free from it. You still have a very corrupted system, with what seems like a very weak rule of law. Please link me/give me some directions so I can read the KHL rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I dont say that "this" league has to work all clubs vs all clubs, I dont like it, I like derbies as well. Therefore I say about CHL model.. you dont like it, ok. How do you imagine Champions league? like soccer? I would prefer common play-off (KHL, SM-Liiga, Elitserien, DEL or so). I dont want inter-games during regaluar season.
Yep. Just like the football version, which in my opinion should be quite possible.

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04-27-2012, 09:51 AM
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supermasif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
study KHL rules, you will find out, you are wrong.
Well it is hard to believe that the KHL would be less corrupt than russian society in general.

For what it is worth, here's the Corruption Pereceptions Index. As you can see Russia is considered quite corrupt.

"The CPI ranks countries/territories based on how corrupt their public sector is perceived to be. It is a composite index, a combination of polls, drawing on corruption-related data collected by a variety of reputable institutions. The CPI reflects the views of observers from around the world, including experts living and working in the countries/territories evaluated." source

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